Pilot Archive
Thread: Where's the space pvp?
SwordNMace
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:43 am
#14
Ramona_Garcia wrote:For me, there is nothing cooler in pvp than flying towards a mass of enemies, together with your squadron, then diving in the massive furball that develops when 40 fighters clash.
I'd love to be a part of something like that, hence my proposal. Ground clashes with forty or more combatants ins't an uncommon thing. I'm just trying get ideas from others and offer my own that will motivate people to do the same in space.
Ducimus
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:23 pm
#15
For the folks that want more PvP damage reduction let me explain something.
Someone like me, spends ALL his time in space. SO much so infact, ive even picked up shipwright to RE all my own parts.I have alot of nice equipment, and aquiring it, half of where i spend my time ingame.
Let me ask you this, what would you rather decide the outcome of a fight?
who has the better equipment?
Or who was the more skilled pilot?
Don't get me wrong, i used to suppot more PvP damage reduction too, but overtime ive realized it would take any sense of equality in space PvP right out of the game, and we'd be back to who has the most uber gear. I don't want it that way.
Someone like me, spends ALL his time in space. SO much so infact, ive even picked up shipwright to RE all my own parts.I have alot of nice equipment, and aquiring it, half of where i spend my time ingame.
Let me ask you this, what would you rather decide the outcome of a fight?
who has the better equipment?
Or who was the more skilled pilot?
Don't get me wrong, i used to suppot more PvP damage reduction too, but overtime ive realized it would take any sense of equality in space PvP right out of the game, and we'd be back to who has the most uber gear. I don't want it that way.
Ivon
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:11 pm
#16
Yes, i enjoy the 2 shot kills also, because it adds suspense and gets your heart racing, but that is all it does.
go duel a friend in deep space with 800 damage weapons, and you will see its a lot more fun, actually try it before you respond negativelyplz -_-
Eaca
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:20 pm
#17
Ducimus wrote:
For the folks that want more PvP damage reduction let me explain something.
Someone like me, spends ALL his time in space. SO much so infact, ive even picked up shipwright to RE all my own parts.I have alot of nice equipment, and aquiring it, half of where i spend my time ingame.
Let me ask you this, what would you rather decide the outcome of a fight?
who has the better equipment?
Or who was the more skilled pilot?
Don't get me wrong, i used to suppot more PvP damage reduction too, but overtime ive realized it would take any sense of equality in space PvP right out of the game, and we'd be back to who has the most uber gear. I don't want it that way.
Both, good gear shouldn't make the pilot, but bad gear should break them. I don't have any problem with a good pilot with great gear being an even match for a great pilot with good gear, but gear can only take you so far, after that its all up to skill. A bad pilot with no tactics, regardless of equipment, will always be an easy kill. A great pilot with the best gear will be a force to be reconned with. 1-3 hit kills SHOULD be the norm, and currently are. Any more than 3 hits for a kill, and 2 "real" aces would never be able to kill each other. Things wouldn't change much if they added a big PvP reduction, other than making the "real" aces invincible, even against each other.
Kyyrtek
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:37 pm
#18
Infestus wrote:I agree either open DS up to everyone... maybe make it an exp cost not just prestige cost.... or make another space sector for pvp where anyone can go to, maybe for a cost... but id just say for free.Another option would be to take away all decay with PVP in all sectors of space just like on the ground.Message Edited by Infestus on 01-27-2005 04:55 PM
/coughKessel/cough
you know, before they nerfed it.....
Seriously, tho, theres alot of problems with pvp - ground and space, and people still ground pvp. I've noticed alot more people on my server getting back into JTL lately. I think it just had to go through a fad phase at first, a hate phase for a minute, and once people get more comfortable with it, they'll start to come back and use it for pvp as a break from the ground game. Hopefully.
Narreem0884
Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:13 pm
#19
SwordNMace wrote:
You know what? I don't buy that argument. In fact, I'd say attitudes like that are what caused the need for the CURB. You want this easier, then you want that easier, and eventually it all spirals out of control until you're left with no choice but to redo the whole thing.
Space pvp right now is quick and nasty, just like actual aerial dogfights. Even with multi-million dollar, hyper-maneuverable jets traveling just under the speed of sound, all it takes is a 1- to 2-second burst from a machine gun to bring one down.
Instead of trying to "dumb down" everything, let's build it up.
Ever read the books? It's true that dogfights didn't take that long, but the shields were at least able to stand up to a few hits from blaster fire. Currently, when compared to player weapons, shields are practically nothing. This isn't true of NPC ships, which take repeated blaster fire to destroy you and vice-versa. Different rules shouldn't be used for one and the other. Either NPC ships should be similarly easy to destroy or it should be made more difficult to destory people in PvP.
As a side note, MP ships should be made much stronger. They're currently just bulkier than fighters and have more mass.
Narreem0884
Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:48 am
#20
I don't figure PvP combat willend up taking longer. If anything, it will probably take less time than it does now. I just prefer the longer battles. Any battle where the first shot decides the outcome is just boring, as the whole battle revolves around that shot. You should at least be able to get away with 1-5 hits before damage becomes a problem. Overall, I'd have to say a 10 hit average in PvP would be nice.
Right now, shields only hit a max of about 2300-2500 unless there are better ones of which I am unaware. Armor is also somewhere in this neighborhood, I think. Now assume that you have shields and armor at 2250. The pilot shooting at you has 2 or 3weapons at 3500 max damage, 0.6 to armor and shields (the damage modifiersare usually the norm for most of the blasters I've collected). If this pilot has weapon overload, which is basically required for PvP, double the damage. With those damage mods, you have 4200 damage per weapon. Since the min max range only differs by 1000-1500 at most, this basically means that in one hit your shields and armor hit are gone or close to it. This makes PvP rather short in most cases.
I hate when it takes no time whatsoever to kill someone. It's much more satisfying when you have to actually try and outmanuver your opponent. This, however, is just the way I prefer combat, in space or otherwise.
sexwax
Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:14 am
#21
So if the ships in Deep Space are able to 1 - 2 shot you, then shouldn't you be trying to outmanuver them? Perhaps, getting better at out manuvering? It sound's like too many individuals on these kinds of posts are just frustrated with dieing and don't want to take the time to try more. 'Make it easier, so that I slip up in the experiance bracket and don't feel like a n00b' News flash for you: There is always someone better than you in this game.
Message Edited by sexwax on 01-29-2005 03:25 AM
Eaca
Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:18 am
#22
If you don't take down my shields and do significant damage to my armor in one hit, you will never take down my shields thanks to cap to shield shunt and capacitor overload. At least it's semi fair now, a bunch of poor pilots get tired of being pounded by one opposing ace, they can gang up in a large group and generally take them down like 5:1, just due to the fact that its hard to dodge that much fire from that many guns for too long. Damage reduction would make the opposing ace neigh undestructable, because the few "lucky" shots the poor pilots got would be quickly healed away, while the ace pounds on them one by one.
AbdoArgentius
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:19 am
#23
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
---------------------
Only drawback is that multiplayer ships are too weak currently.
I agree with this one. Multiplayer ships have ungodly amounts of mass. Shouldn't we be able to better equip? I mean, there should be special armors and modifications for ships this size. How about multiple shield generators like you see on some other ships? All kinds of things you should be able to do. Not entirely sure what, but I know that multiplayer ships are too weak for the kind of work it takes to get them. Also, and this may just be my personal complaint..................if a gun turret isn't manned, can't we set up some kind of computer control override? I can't think of a scientifically advanced society that wouldn't have that option on this kind of system.
Eaca
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:32 am
#24
AbdoArgentius wrote:
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
---------------------
Only drawback is that multiplayer ships are too weak currently.
I agree with this one. Multiplayer ships have ungodly amounts of mass. Shouldn't we be able to better equip? I mean, there should be special armors and modifications for ships this size. How about multiple shield generators like you see on some other ships? All kinds of things you should be able to do. Not entirely sure what, but I know that multiplayer ships are too weak for the kind of work it takes to get them. Also, and this may just be my personal complaint..................if a gun turret isn't manned, can't we set up some kind of computer control override? I can't think of a scientifically advanced society that wouldn't have that option on this kind of system.
Problem with an AI on turrets is they would be more effective than live players -_- AI doesn't sit there and figure out "ok they're going this direction, turning this way, so I need to shoot about..... here, yay I hit or boo I missed" it's more like "ok they're in this ship so they get this to-hit modifier, and they're currently turning this amount so add this bonus to-miss modifier, roll the dice, ok I hit them or ok I missed them" The AI ALWAYS has a chance to hit you. Players can always miss. Putting an AI, that always has a chance to hit, in control of a PC weapon, typical damage is 10-20x more than an NPC weapon, and MP ships would be the most effective single person ship (or 2 person, one for ops chair) in the galaxy.
Ramona_Garcia
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:35 am
#25
Narreem0884 wrote:
I don't figure PvP combat willend up taking longer. If anything, it will probably take less time than it does now. I just prefer the longer battles. Any battle where the first shot decides the outcome is just boring, as the whole battle revolves around that shot. You should at least be able to get away with 1-5 hits before damage becomes a problem. Overall, I'd have to say a 10 hit average in PvP would be nice.
Right now, shields only hit a max of about 2300-2500 unless there are better ones of which I am unaware. Armor is also somewhere in this neighborhood, I think. Now assume that you have shields and armor at 2250. The pilot shooting at you has 2 or 3weapons at 3500 max damage, 0.6 to armor and shields (the damage modifiersare usually the norm for most of the blasters I've collected). If this pilot has weapon overload, which is basically required for PvP, double the damage. With those damage mods, you have 4200 damage per weapon. Since the min max range only differs by 1000-1500 at most, this basically means that in one hit your shields and armor hit are gone or close to it. This makes PvP rather short in most cases.
I hate when it takes no time whatsoever to kill someone. It's much more satisfying when you have to actually try and outmanuver your opponent. This, however, is just the way I prefer combat, in space or otherwise.
Only way to mount 3 3500 max blasters is when you pick a large ship like the krayt, rihkxyrk or B-Wing. And all those are pretty slow, and not too hard to hit. Smaller ships often mount only 1 or 2 weapons.
The key is not to get hit in the first place, and then not to get hit by all blasters at once. In other words, skill and luck, not gear, and I prefer it that way, even if I am somewhat lacking in skill still.
AbdoArgentius
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:45 am
#26
Problem with an AI on turrets is they would be more effective than live players -_- AI doesn't sit there and figure out "ok they're going this direction, turning this way, so I need to shoot about..... here, yay I hit or boo I missed" it's more like "ok they're in this ship so they get this to-hit modifier, and they're currently turning this amount so add this bonus to-miss modifier, roll the dice, ok I hit them or ok I missed them" The AI ALWAYS has a chance to hit you. Players can always miss. Putting an AI, that always has a chance to hit, in control of a PC weapon, typical damage is 10-20x more than an NPC weapon, and MP ships would be the most effective single person ship (or 2 person, one for ops chair) in the galaxy.
True, this is an advantage that AI has over players. One disadvantage though. Players can re-target to ships that would make more sense in combat. The AI might decide to go haring off after that tier 2 bomber while the tier 5 gunboat is pasting you. I don't think this would be too much of an advantage since all the NPC ships are AI controlled. I'm not always hit by them and I seem to make out alright. Only times I ever get pasted is by doing something stupid. (Hmm, it wouldn't hurt to strafe the corvette on my own would it? No! ................. Umm, where did those gunboats come from? )