Pilot Archive

more tactical... yes... more skill.. no... flying should be all tactics and reflexes (thus the term "twitch") reflexes can't enter the equation at slow speeds and it becomes all tactical and as far as I am concerned I'm not playing command and conquer for a reason.

not sure if you guys relise how inAcuate JTL space phsisics engin actualy is and how this effects PVP.
bascily the current system is Low control High dmg, this basicly means first guy to pop a lucky shot in PVP wins.
(DMG system)

however the system should be altered for PVP to be low-mid-high control, low dmg.
(hits system)

basicly to make PVP more fun we need to have 100% control in a 0% friction enviroment, and incorpret more SLIDE variables.
basicly your ship travels in one direction with thrust right? well lets say you remove thrust and your ship will continue to move in that singel direction untill thrust is applyed again. however PYR thurst will allow your ship to turn and navigate while in a slide meaning better aim of a PC ship or NPC ship while headding in a a2b line.
gravity pockets will however be a varible in this system
anyone ever play astroids on the Atari-ST ? its like moving on ice, i hope a system like this could be used in JTL to make it more fun and playable.

i have only ever seem one space shooter that every got this semi right, and that would be "Tachyon" this space sim actualy pulled it off quite well and got the effects of space down to a T almost. this game was based on the princibels of ZERO fiction space and is much like astroids on the ST.

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Attacca wrote:

They played with this during beta, the slide actually got unbelievably annoying. Instead of spinning PvP fights you had more of a funnel effect, just sliding endlessly in circles. At one point it was so bad some ships (freakin' A-Wings!) were able to spin on a dime, litereally, and fly backwards shooting you until they caught up with the slide. The AI didn't like it either, and you just wound up in continous long slides fighting them.

I suppose neither system is perfect, but I think I actually prefer the current one in terms of dogfighting.

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yeh i rember the PYR system was not 100% in effect then and they was also working on a Group formation system probbly to work on a wing leader setting the formations for fancy shows.

PYR is now more restrictive a then beta as i think it was intended to be.

however the subject in hand PVP is boring i mean loopdeloops trying to get the best aim for a direct shot kill. (then you get the mong in a RG tie interseptor exploiting the hitbox bug)

Message Edited by Narut0 on 08-16-2005 11:49 PM

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S-1-l2-H-C wrote:

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PaceNebulon wrote:
more tactical... yes... more skill.. no... flying should be all tactics and reflexes (thus the term "twitch") reflexes can't enter the equation at slow speeds and it becomes all tactical and as far as I am concerned I'm not playing command and conquer for a reason.

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i agee completely that things shouldnt be slowed down to the point where reflexes dont matter. if that was the case JTl pvp would be a bunch of head on kills. i just think that things have become a bit too fast, to the point that its just as much luck as skill when it comes to hitting your target. getting a blaster shot to connect shouldnt be so random.

someone skilled should be able to shoot accurately, and it should require more thought and "reflexes" to manuver into a firing position while also denying your enemya clear shot.

making ships "slide" less would help alot, since you would no longer have both ships shooting at each other at the same time while flying in a circle at a 90 degree angle of attack. i dont call flying in a circle pouring shots at a green dot hoping you get lucky before the other guy skill.

i used to dogfight in the bf42 mod Desert Combat alot, and the air to air combat was amazing. due to it being a mod of a WWII game, the missiles on the jets were dumbfire and getting a hit took ALOT of skill, but it wasnt random. a good pilot would know as soon as he hit the fire button if he got a kill or not. in jtl the speedof combat and the latencyof playing an online game make it so that you dont really know where to aim toscore a hit. you just kinda guess and pour shots at your target.

also in DC there were alot oftactics involved to get into a position where you had a clear shot while making sure your opponent didnt line you up. in JTL its just fly in a circle jinking around to avoid fire while taking pot shots.

Message Edited by S-1-l2-H-C on 08-16-2005 11:50 AM

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Ashtirael wrote:

Unless you use strafing tactics. Or missiles. Or epulse. Or wingmates. Or.......

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I don't know the single vector thrust physics you would make everyone fly in either a straight line or graceful arcs. That would just make everyone a moving turret. Thrust up to speed do a fly by, hope to hit your target as you whiz by, hope that you don't get hit cuz dodging would be a moot point as you can only dodge in on direction. Set up for another pass.
Multiple vector thrusts would make a ship near impossible to hit. ie making a ship able to thrust up or down, left or right with out having to change attitude. This would mean weaponry would have to change to area affect damage. Clouds or cone of damage a ship would put out in hopes that the other ship would run into them. But then that wouldn't be Star Wars anymore.

Having a command to turn of the intertial compensators (ie. if you turn you'll still be moving in the same direction) might have it's uses. But then flying in a straitline is not good for survivability and the suprise factor of such a move would be good maybe once or twice in a battle.

there are a few to many problems with Space side that need addusting and fixing, PVP hit dmg is i guess all fine but i hate the looping dog fights we all get in to its so boring.

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S-1-l2-H-C wrote:

the way things are now, the ships move around so fast that latency becomes a huge factor, and hitting a target is just as much luck as skill.

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yeah pretty much. I have two issues with how things are leaning towards higher speed fights.

1.) What ostat said above. latency, and hit detection are going to be pushed harder, the faster we go. And we do just seem to be going faster, in smaller ships.

2.) Super fast and super small, is a form of damage reduction. As damage goes, theres two ways to protect against it.
A.) damage avoidance (don't get hit, duh)
b.) damage mitigation (reduction in damage, currently its 25%)

Lean to hard on mitagation, no one dies. Lean too hard on avoidance your going to have a 15 to 30 minute arm wrestling contest with your opponent. Oh wait.. we already have that

So generally, i agree, were going too fast.