Pilot Archive
Thread: 10 Ways to make PvE less dull in Space.
psikobunny wrote:I wouldn't have a problem if a hyperhump were truly tactical, something to gain breathing room, or a travel distance advantage.
Hyperhump!?
I dunno what game you've been playing, but I've never seen that one come up on the slash commands!
Coran_Sienar wrote:
psikobunny wrote:I wouldn't have a problem if a hyperhump were truly tactical, something to gain breathing room, or a travel distance advantage.
Hyperhump!?
I dunno what game you've been playing, but I've never seen that one come up on the slash commands!
You see a lot od things if you play a Dancer. /shudder
psikobunny wrote:
I was gonna edit and cover my tail section, but that is just too funny. I claim typo of the day award.
Also, it wouldn't matter, since we've quoted you twice now, so you can't get rid of it.
JanuHull wrote:
Attacca wrote:
I would love to see them use specials. Get too close to that Black Sun, and epulse! Or when those filthy rebel scum try to take down the corvette, one of those TIE Oppressors should call in a bstrike.
Regarding missile boats, I thought NPC's used to launch more missiles, was that tuned down at some point?
Heartily agree with #10, that's the cheeziest tactic I've ever seen.
Actually, #10 is a pretty fair use of tactical hyperspace jumping. Since my own skills have improved dramatically since the rust has been polished off of them, I haven't done it since the first week I was back in mid-May. However, for someone coming up or getting overwhelmed, it is a fair tactic, given the retarded and artificial risk taken by having the computer take control over your ship for the final countdown.Be mindful that in the cases where tactical hyperspacing can be used effectively, the bottom line is completing the objective, NOT killing everything in sight.
As much as i REALLY hate to admit it, number 10 is kind of a bug/loophole.
Reason is the game will only keep 2 waves out at a time on you. Most of the time you have to hyper twice. Each hyper results in a wave. After the 2nd hyper nothing else will spawn because theres 2 waves out, and the mobs are too stupid to follow you. THey see you hyper, and thats that.
EDIT:
As to the orginal post.
I totally agree. We need all those adjustments.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 07-13-2005 11:28 AM
1 Gear- Add things like boosters and countermeasures to NPCs, and teach them to use them.
2 Tricks- Code in the use of a few pilot specials and droid commands, mix up the things they do in a fight.
3 More gear- every fighter ship has 1-2 gunsand fires at a rate of about .4 This is BORING. Code in each class of ship to have a loadout similar to some player ships. Put 3 guns on a Kimogila, crank up the refire rate on interceptor type ships, give us a variety of visual cues to judge and digest. Figure out a DPS for each tier and come up with clever ways to achieve that number. 3 slow guns in a wide shootbox, 1 fast gun, mix and match for variety!
4 Flashy Gear- Thought it was great when I saw different ships of different groups sporting their "colors" I want to see this extended to weaponry. This is kind of an addition to point #3, but I want each different group we run into out there in the black to look different. So Tired of Blaster Red, Blaster Blue, and Blaster Green. Avoid the laggier effects, but pick a cool variety of gun effects and skins.
5 Ship Types- Classes of ship should behave differently. Have missile ships be more aggressive in getting rocket lock. Fly slower and "turret" instead of larger circles like their lighter brethren. Faster interceptor types should be more "jousty" but not too much more. Give us something more to think about then 'slide behind and matchspeed'
6 Turrets! Why should the Rebels get all the fun with Aggressors? Every class of NPC should have a turreted fighter for pilots to face, and the AI for these should be changed, and the exposure to turreted ships should come sooner. Ywings with turrets, and for gosh sake, give us Krayt NPCs!! Turret accuracy and the NPC "pilot's" desire to get a player in the turrets arc of fire should start low in low tier NPCs, and progress up to a level slightly tougher than it is now, in tier5s. The reason the Aggie gets such fear is that it is kinda dumped on rebel pilots sorta sudden like. Nice surprise I think, but I'd rather see easier turret fighters earlier on in the learning curve and progress them up to more difficult later.
7 Sector Spawns- Instead of tight clusters that hang out in blobs, I would like to see more travelling patrol groups. Fighter wings that go out in wolfpacks and cover areas and swoop in on intruders. Particularly I would like to see these patrols on certain "space lanes" the lines between hyperpoints and the nearest station, where pilots tend to travel. Make hypertravel be more complicated thant memorized the points "closest to station" because sometimes those lanes could be covered by tier4 imperials or rebels or pirates.
8 Wingmen- In conjunction with #7 I would like to see better use of groupthink AI to make NPCs more of a challenge. Similar to communal aggro, or the way some space spawns work already, I would like to see fighter elements in open sectors and on missions, that break off and deal with specific threats, not just focus on the mission holder or the ship that is being escorted. If you break up a wingman pair, the partner should be smart enough to work harder at getting behind you while his buddy leads you a little.
9 Mission spawns- make Pilot mission spawns more dynamic, similar to ground terminal missions. the more players in the group, the more ships. Add in a few placeholder spawns that will dynamically choose a tier that fits the best pilot in the PC group. While its nice to help newer pilots, something should be done to liven up the life of the assisting ace(s) so that there is less "out to lunch" time on missions.
10 The one you'll hate- eliminate the ability of pilots on a mission to use insystem hyperjumps to fool the AI. Plain and simple I think this is a loophole in the system and it needs to be closed. Mission balance was not done with this "easy out" in mind. Either the AI needs to get smart enough to follow the player on a jump, or the player shouldnt be allowed to jump. Ideally, I'd like a system where each ship has a %chance to track and follow you through the jump. Then, it becomes a dice roll, and you may get off easy or you may get slammed on re entry, but the fact that people can win a mission by tricking the ships into floating dead in space can't be as intended.
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:51 AM
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:59 AM
alyris wrote:
2 Tricks- Code in the use of a few pilot specials and droid commands, mix up the things they do in a fight.
6 Turrets! Why should the Rebels get all the fun with Aggressors? Every class of NPC should have a turreted fighter for pilots to face, and the AI for these should be changed, and the exposure to turreted ships should come sooner. Ywings with turrets, and for gosh sake, give us Krayt NPCs!! Turret accuracy and the NPC "pilot's" desire to get a player in the turrets arc of fire should start low in low tier NPCs, and progress up to a level slightly tougher than it is now, in tier5s. The reason the Aggie gets such fear is that it is kinda dumped on rebel pilots sorta sudden like. Nice surprise I think, but I'd rather see easier turret fighters earlier on in the learning curve and progress them up to more difficult later.
edit- I realized I had dumped a godawful chunk o text. Broke it up to make it more readable.
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:51 AM
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:59 AM
#2 No, the last thing I want going into a wave of 5, is 5 difference set of B. Strike called in on me.
#6 No, Have you ever flown a Tie fighter? They are not the PvE beast the rebels get. This would be over powering for new playersstarting JTL.
We all want more challenges, changing the game is not the answer, more content, more zones, more things to do is the answer.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
#6 For Tier 1 and 2, use Y-Wing Longprobes, for Tier 3, 4, and 5, use turreted Y-Wings.
alyris wrote:
2 Tricks- Code in the use of a few pilot specials and droid commands, mix up the things they do in a fight.
6 Turrets! Why should the Rebels get all the fun with Aggressors? Every class of NPC should have a turreted fighter for pilots to face, and the AI for these should be changed, and the exposure to turreted ships should come sooner. Ywings with turrets, and for gosh sake, give us Krayt NPCs!! Turret accuracy and the NPC "pilot's" desire to get a player in the turrets arc of fire should start low in low tier NPCs, and progress up to a level slightly tougher than it is now, in tier5s. The reason the Aggie gets such fear is that it is kinda dumped on rebel pilots sorta sudden like. Nice surprise I think, but I'd rather see easier turret fighters earlier on in the learning curve and progress them up to more difficult later.
edit- I realized I had dumped a godawful chunk o text. Broke it up to make it more readable.
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:51 AM
Message Edited by psikobunny on 07-13-2005 11:59 AM
#2 No, the last thing I want going into a wave of 5, is 5 difference set of B. Strike called in on me.
#6 No, Have you ever flown a Tie fighter? They are not the PvE beast the rebels get. This would be over powering for new playersstarting JTL.
We all want more challenges, changing the game is not the answer, more content, more zones, more things to do is the answer.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
Thats why I wasn't specific other than to say a few specials. Obviously bstrike wouldnt be fair, but the emergency moves (with a chance at failure just like ours) orsome other moves would be worth considering.
You dont need a pve beast to take out a turreted fighter, thats pretty much my point. with practice an Aggie is no tougher than any other TIE, but a progressive turret AI that starts slo and inaccurate and gets better the higher you progress, would actually help new players learn in a much more balanced fashion.
Don't think about them so much as changes for the sake of change, but as completing things that were started. The NPC side of the game has always felt somewhat half finished to me. And the fact that there is a lot of variety between different typese of NPC on the ground and very very very very little variety in space just compounds that feeling. We all knew at release JtL was a work in progress, essentially unfinished. I'm just pointing out several things that ought to be completed.
Whats the point of addingmore content and more zonesif they are just the same old mission typesagainst the same old ships? We saw that with RotW missions they have already sorta pushed the limit on that score, the next logical step is to flesh out the foundation they have.
You must have missed my main point. Tie Fighters can't withstand that type of beating. Try equiping an A-wing using only 50k mass (no REeither, we are talking about the changes affecting everyone, even those starting out fresh), then go after a tier 4 aggi. You'll get the picture quick. First off Tie Fighters don't have the firepower that the X-wing has, and second, they don't have the mass either, they justare not meant to be sturdy craft. Also, I don't see your point by doing this, the hardest squadrons are imperial (generally viewed), why make them harder? Does it change the challenge level of all of space, no, it just makes the Imperial path a little harder.
psikobunny wrote:
Whats the point of addingmore content and more zonesif they are just the same old mission typesagainst the same old ships? We saw that with RotW missions they have already sorta pushed the limit on that score, the next logical step is to flesh out the foundation they have.
Oh please not the ARC 170 though. BTW, I've helped my bother do some his Smugglers Alliance missions, and we've had some nasty agressors to destroy.
psikobunny wrote:
6 Turrets! Why should the Rebels get all the fun with Aggressors? Every class of NPC should have a turreted fighter for pilots to face, and the AI for these should be changed, and the exposure to turreted ships should come sooner. Ywings with turrets, and for gosh sake, give us Krayt NPCs!! Turret accuracy and the NPC "pilot's" desire to get a player in the turrets arc of fire should start low in low tier NPCs, and progress up to a level slightly tougher than it is now, in tier5s. The reason the Aggie gets such fear is that it is kinda dumped on rebel pilots sorta sudden like. Nice surprise I think, but I'd rather see easier turret fighters earlier on in the learning curve and progress them up to more difficult later.
alyris wrote:
You must have missed my main point. Tie Fighters can't withstand that type of beating. Try equiping an A-wing using only 50k mass (no REeither, we are talking about the changes affecting everyone, even those starting out fresh), then go after a tier 4 aggi. You'll get the picture quick. First off Tie Fighters don't have the firepower that the X-wing has, and second, they don't have the mass either, they justare not meant to be sturdy craft. Also, I don't see your point by doing this, the hardest squadrons are imperial (generally viewed), why make them harder? Does it change the challenge level of all of space, no, it just makes the Imperial path a little harder.
psikobunny wrote:
Whats the point of addingmore content and more zonesif they are just the same old mission typesagainst the same old ships? We saw that with RotW missions they have already sorta pushed the limit on that score, the next logical step is to flesh out the foundation they have.
Kirsha - Kettemoor
And you missed most of my main point. turret ships at beginner levels should not be as fast and accurate as they are now. I specfically advocated an AI change so that low end turret ships would be easier, and pilots would learn early on that turret ships are not beaten by tanking, they are beaten by clever maneuvering, which is what most of you Imperials claimyou excel at. Sliding and jinking into the 'dark side" where a turret can't shoot are how most of the experienced Rebels beat an Aggie, not tankingit.Obviously the change wouldn't convert every Ywing longprobe into a Turreted Ywing, you'd see roughly the same number of turreted fighters most rebel pilots see. My goal is not to increase the difficulty of all missions, its to expand the variety of challenges.
Plus lets make some clear distinctions. Imperial squads are not known as the hardest to beat because they are the most difficult, they are the hardest because they are the most arduous. There's a clear difference there if you've experienced a lot of the different squads. Changing the mixes and styles of attack waves and NPC AI would not make the overall mission any harder, it would just add variety, so instead of "oh great here comesthe 7thwave of4 Awings" you get "on your toes! 2 Ywings gunships coming in!"
You've dragged me into your little Imp vs Rebel trip, and it's not worth pursuing much further. The general nature of my recommendations is meant to be a general, wide reaching, across the board improvement in the variety and quality of PvE play for all JtL players. Sorry you see it as something petty, because it's not.