Pilot Archive

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Ramona_Garcia wrote:

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Ditolus wrote:

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Mac_Leod wrote:

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Ditolus wrote:
for all of u who say that 1-3 hit kills are great because they match up pretty well with what happens in the movies, i say this: why would the devs give us 10 levels of tech for each component, about 20 different ships to choose from, and 3 different navy's to fly for if any ship, INCLUDING MULTI PLAYER SHIPS, can be wasted in 1-3 shots. what difference does it make what ship u fly if any ship can be killed in 1-3 hits. pvp damage is the prime culprate behind this and pvp damage needs to be lowered. the fact that multiplayer ships can be wasted so quickly by a tie lfighter or an awing is definitive proof that pvp damage should be lowered , in my opinion.

Message Edited by Ditolus on 02-04-2005 04:52 PM

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I must disagree. Would you prefer if there was one or two ships that would be "the best" for PvP in space? This would result in something very similar to the "composite clone" problem the ground game is suffering.

You also say that it doesn't make a difference what ship you fly in PvP when in actuality, it does. If you want to fly a small maneuverable ship, you have to make sacrifices on shielding. If you want a big armored ship, you have to give up speed and maneuverability. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. Furthermore, the component system allows you to be flexible and lets you do all sorts of combinations.

Finally, I agree that multiplayer ships should have better defenses, but all of those ideas have been hashed and re-hashed many times.

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i would actually say that there already are 1 or 2 ships that are "the best". i would call awings as u stated, the "composite of space". simply for the fact that since pvp damage is so high, the high end armor and shields are really pretty useless. which only leaves maneuverability as the real factor in space pvp. the problem is people who prefer the heavy fighters and a flying style that depends on heavy armor/shields and not on maneuverability are getting jipped.

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First, if you have 2 or 3 heavy guns, you can one shot a lighter fighter, while the lighter fighter still has to land several hits to get through your shields and amror with his guns. So, heavy fighters are not getting jipped, they are just not ruling pvp combat as they do PvE.

Second, from what I can tell, people want to lower damage so their leet gear counts more than skill. They can't handle a battle where flying skill and aiming matters, not camped loot.

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Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 02-10-2005 01:49 AM

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Duy wrote:

To solve my boredom I unpacked my tie/in. After loading a large engine and great shields, I slapped on my weaker gun and found it a real adrenalin rush to fight larger ships. I can survive 1 solid hit with my shields, but have to deal out9 or11 to get a kill. I do agree there should be a larger jump in sheild strength between tiers, especially 4 and master, but that probably won't get looked at till after the combat revamp. If you're complaining because you get killed to much, unlike me who finds it too easy to kill, then do what I do; watch my six and patrol for declared playerssoI canembrase the joy of surprise (a pilot's best friend).

p.s.For you wingmen who don't let your buds know there is a declared imp next to you, thanks.

Viko Ause, MD,Storm squadron tie pilot, rebel hunter.

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Did something similar with a rebel buddy last week. I crafted a few light blasters, installed themin place of our "big berthas", leftEO3 turned offand had at it. Dueled in DS until one person dinged the others armor then stopped (recharged shields, rinse, repeat)What great fun! The blasters managed around 200-250per hit, and we both has 1800+ shields. Made it much more challenging. With CtS it became a drawn out stalemate, but i could see CtS being used on MP ships in this type of set up.

I've never PvP's in space, so I can't really post any opinions either way. But I can post a few simple questions:

Why isn't PvP damage the same as PvE damage? If it takes 10-15 shots to pop a Tie Opressor NPC, why not 10-15 shots to burn a player flying the same ship? If you're using the same weapons, do we assume the NPC's have shields/armor that is many times better than the best RE'd stuff?

Again, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the current PvP damage system, I'm just asking a question.

Because if it took 10-15 hits to kill an A-Wing or Interceptor, and they're piloted by someone who knows what they're doing, they'd never die. Players move with such speed and unpredictability compared to NPCs it's hard to line up two or three shots on them, let alone ten.

There's no way to give an in-game or roleplay reason why NPC ships can soak so much more damage, but the mechanics of it are such that PVE and PVP have to be different for both to be any fun.

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TomoRainer wrote:
Because if it took 10-15 hits to kill an A-Wing or Interceptor, and they're piloted by someone who knows what they're doing, they'd never die. Players move with such speed and unpredictability compared to NPCs it's hard to line up two or three shots on them, let alone ten.

There's no way to give an in-game or roleplay reason why NPC ships can soak so much more damage, but the mechanics of it are such that PVE and PVP have to be different for both to be any fun.

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I'll accept that. NPC's have to take longer to kill because they essentially fly in a straight line when compared to players.

Exactly. If you're out there in a tiny ship with a huge engine, jerking your flight path around in unpredictable ways, it can be almost comically hard to hit you. Heck, I think an X-Wing makes a pretty big target, but some of the guys I've tried to line up on, they've taken me on a serious ride before I finally took them out. A good A-Wing pilot is difficult to get missile lock on, let alone hit with a blaster.

This anarchy in PVP comes out best in the real scrums, the battles with 8-20 pilots on a side. Everyone's moving so crazily, both trying to follow their targets and evade whoever's lined up on them, sometimes I swear the only way anyone dies is just due to the volume of blaster fire flying though space. Absolutely no way to predict what your target's going to do or what you'll need to do next once he's dead. It's all instinct and reflexes, avoiding enemy fire, and putting yourself in position to get lucky with a shot.

Which isn't to say it doesn't take skill--skill shines through tremendously. It's just that it's so much easier to avoid being shot than it is to shoot someone, and this difference is magnified the smaller and faster your ship gets. Unfortunately, this gives tiny, hypermaneuverable craft an enormous advantage when it comes to PVP, but simply reducing damage could only be a small part of any solution to increase pilot diversity, because if you reduce it too far, these pilots go from top guns to outright invincible.

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Ditolus wrote:
for all of u who say that 1-3 hit kills are great because they match up pretty well with what happens in the movies, i say this: why would the devs give us 10 levels of tech for each component, about 20 different ships to choose from, and 3 different navy's to fly for if any ship, INCLUDING MULTI PLAYER SHIPS, can be wasted in 1-3 shots. what difference does it make what ship u fly if any ship can be killed in 1-3 hits. pvp damage is the prime culprate behind this and pvp damage needs to be lowered. the fact that multiplayer ships can be wasted so quickly by a tie lfighter or an awing is definitive proof that pvp damage should be lowered , in my opinion.

Message Edited by Ditolus on 02-04-2005 04:52 PM

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I will agree with one point and disagree with another.

Agree: Yes, diveristy is lessened when every ship dies just as quick as the next. The smart PvPer would always fly the fastest, most maneverable ships so they can be the first to land those first hits. Every ship should have its ups and downs. Fast ships should be easy to kill (1-3 hits for example) but the big bulky ships should be hard to kill (10-20 hits), but slow an unresponsive. MPS should be even tougher (30-40 hits)but again, even slower and unresponsive.

Disagree: PvP damage should not be lowered. The problem here is not PvP, it is PvE. The ground game is plagued with this problem too, but people are unwilling to acknoledge where the problem truely lies. There should not be a difference between PvP and PvE damage wise. There is absolutely no reason why a Storm Trooper should have 100k HAM and a player dressed in Storm Trooper armor only have 3k HAM. The devs made it work by putting a 75% reduction in damage, and it definately helped out, but what needs to be done is to leave PvP at full damage and lower PvE by 75%. Then to make PvP not have one hit kills, reduce all weapon damage by 75% and then PvP and PvE will be balanced. The devs should do this in space, and if it works, implement it on the ground.