Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus: Player-Controlled Capital Ships
thedvn
Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:45 am
#145
These must be guild owned. We cannot allow capital ships to be player owned.
Idea 1:
We need a new structure for player cities that allows a guild to park / launch a capital ship from.
Idea 2:
We need to be able to have players dock. We need to be able to have players board a ship mid flight. Landing with 20 people on board will cause issues.
Idea 3:
We need to be able to board ships. Engage in PVP, maybe take over a ship. However there needs to be a point to this.
Idea 4:
Capital Ships should require a huge ammount of resources to build and operate.
Radioactive to power the ship / Fuel Rods.
Idea 5:
The crew of a capital ship should be able to interchange components internally. (GunTurrets, Missile Points,Shield Generators) with a time penalty to getting them operational. It may pay to use a shipwright as the engineer.
Idea 6:
Piracy. Steal Components / Empty Cargo Holds.
ajag
Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:16 am
#146
Do not confuse capital ships with sapce stations. If anything should be guild owned/operated should be space stations and capital ships must be player owned. All the ideas you guys have for cities should applied to guild owned space stations. A capital ship is no city and should not act like one. A capital ship is just a big ship with big guns. If you want anything guild owned in space then push for player space stations. This would make sense because a space station is a static objeect that does not move and everyone can use at any time. If you try to apply the same concept to the capital ships then you will never see them.
Greeg
Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:27 am
#147
Well for me only guilds could have a capital ship, one for every 30 members.
10 people at least just to launch it to space.
My idea for a capital ship, like a star destroyer or the big ones used by rebels in episode 6, is make it so that 30 people can be onboard, 10 managing the ship, 10 in ship defence crew (to kill any invaders) and 10 as pilots who can use their fighters to engage enemy starship and enemy fighters.
Just imagine you are in sector x beeing pursued by a enemy stardestroyer and realize that its better to stand and fight, The ship admiral would brief the pilots about attack plans, the crew would allways be working as to keep the ship operational and manning the big guns, defence crew could try and board the enemy ship, or just stay and prevent boarding parties.
If this is managed we will have epic battles and we will be playing the space part of star wars galaxies as I think everyone dreams.
Peeter-Griffin
Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:55 am
#148
I just saw this forum and was too lazy to read 7 pages of responses 
so if any of my ideas have already been mentioned and proved crappy, please tell me.
so if any of my ideas have already been mentioned and proved crappy, please tell me.My first idea is that there should be NPC crews that you purchase with credits, merceneries ect, and reb/imp gaurds with fp, or possibly prestige points because fp are so hard to get. They could automaticaly repair ship systems if ordered to, and man guns but with penaltys because they arent player controlled. So you could actually have battles inside of a ship like you see in the movies instead of 2 against 3 players attacking each other or playing hide and seek.
People who board should be allowed to sabatoge systems so they will be disabled until they are repaired by a player character, or possibly NPC, or they could damage systems by doing this. After they board they cannot take over because i would hate to see my ship stolen after paying millions or doing tons of quests. BUT they can set a self destruct to destroy the ship, or they can overload the reactor or something else to effectively damage or destroy the ship.
There should be a new profession created, captain or fleet commander (someone has already suggested fleet commander elsewhere) that takes captain experience so you must be piloting a capital ship, (a puny starter ship would have to be given) and master pilot would be a requirment. THen you get certifications for bigger ships made by shipwrights (shipwrights rejoice!) that would cost millions making captain a hard profession to complete. YOu would also get certifications for capital class equipment, reactors, shields armor ect, but probably not weapons because a master pilot wont want to blow up in one shot.
If all player crew members are killed, the ship should remain unless enemy boarding parties leave, you could have the option for the ship to self destruct when all your crew members are killed and make it a silent countdown to kill off the boarders in a last act of revenge.
Capital ships need new graphics for when they are destroyed, and they should do damage to surrounding ships from explosions from the reactor and such.
Thats all i can put with the time i have, hope some of it hasnt been said before
KJFett3
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:40 am
#149
Montya_Quatun wrote:
just a quick fyi, those of you saying an ISD wouldnt fit in space are wrong each sector of space (that means planetary sector) is 16km x 16km x 16km (x axis y axis z axis). So you would be talking about a huge spacial volume area per sector where in Star Wars a star destroyer is about 1,000m long. In game it may be a little larger than that in game measurements but it easily would fit in a planetary sector and run around without hitting a sector boundry. Of coursewe'reassuming they havent scaled down the ships which they have.
Corvettes handle the sectors very well and all in all an ISD isnt that much longer than a corvette only a few hundred meters. And besides theres always the ISD-II which is the smaller variant. Theres also one other point the entire space game has been scaled around the larger ships already if you have ever been to deep space you will notice a starfighter does not look very big next to a Star Destroyer even the multiplayer ships are quite small comparitively.
1) C. Corvette is 150m long
2) ISD is 1600m long
It would take 10, thats TEN, vettes lined up in a row to equal the length of an ISD. This also means that it would only take 10 ISDs lined up to go from one end of a sector to the other. Suddenyl 16Kx3 is a lot smaller. And the ISDII is not smaller than the ISD. It is the same size, and has newer equipement. It is the Victory SD and VicII that are smaller versions of the ISD.
Message Edited by KJFett3 on 06-08-2005 08:48 AM
!
Kyyrtek
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:48 am
#150
Higginsis wrote:
Neb B's would be my choice for the other smaller sized capital ship. A small crew could work it, just not at full capcity, and it wasn't much bigger than a vette.
The problem is really neither were that faction specific (both imps and rebels used them) but in the films we only see them in rebel hands. There not much else of a iconic Capital ship other than the ISD, which is far to big (and laggy) to be workable.
Unless there's a mid sized craft i't not familiar with.
If the Nebula - B's arent faction specific, let the Neutral pilots use them. Why should the Smugllers Alliance be left out? If they are really going to add more content for smugglers ground side, this could be a great way to tie in more ground/space player generated content.
jascenjerreck
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:50 am
#151
I think people are bringing up valid points about the whole "should it be only guild owned or not" argument....I think we first need to see exactly which capital ships will be available to us before we make up our minds as to who should own what....and I understand that this is a star wars video game, but i think the idea is to make things as realistic as possible...at least as realistic as you can get WITHIN THE STAR WARS UNIVERSE. The fact of the matter is very rarely would one ever see ONE person owning his or her own correllian corvette, unless he or she was high ranking politician (like Bail Organa for example) or something along those lines. And I don't think any one person would ever be able to own a mon calamari cruiser.....of their very own......A corvette, maybe...
As was stated before, the devs are trying to instill the "teamwork" aspect of the game. So no....I don't think someone who is unguilded, or not part of some greater faction should be able to just go out and pick up a shiny new ISD. Thats just not realistic within the game. Thats the idea behind guilds, power in number, and I think that guilds should be rewarded for their participation in the team aspect of the game.
Maybe a master politician could have a deed to a corvette....that profession could certainly use a boost...and it would make sense... <------------------ (me thinking out loud)
Kyyrtek
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:50 am
#152
I liek alot of the ideas about ownership over 'borrowed' cap ships, but I definitley think there should be a tremendous prestige point requirement, as well as faction rank, and faction point cost, just like when you buy bases and turrets. In regards to the ships being guild-owned, there could also be a minimum guild member requirement, just like player cities have for things like shuttleports and such. The only problem with this is if they add a neutral capital ship, which would have no way to derive a faction cost, so maybe just a higher prestige point cost to offset the difference and keep everyone happy.
Message Edited by Kyyrtek on 06-08-2005 11:53 AM
KJFett3
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:52 am
#153
Kyyrtek wrote:
Higginsis wrote:
Neb B's would be my choice for the other smaller sized capital ship. A small crew could work it, just not at full capcity, and it wasn't much bigger than a vette.
The problem is really neither were that faction specific (both imps and rebels used them) but in the films we only see them in rebel hands. There not much else of a iconic Capital ship other than the ISD, which is far to big (and laggy) to be workable.
Unless there's a mid sized craft i't not familiar with.
If the Nebula - B's arent faction specific, let the Neutral pilots use them. Why should the Smugllers Alliance be left out? If they are really going to add more content for smugglers ground side, this could be a great way to tie in more ground/space player generated content.
Neb-Bs were made for the Empire, but for some reason, it had a problem with crew mutiny. Most crews that broke off from the Empire went to the Rebellion, but some went off on their own or joined Pirate groups. Some of them that sent off on their own became privateers for the Rebellion. Not apart of the Rebel Navy, but still working against the Empire and making loads of creds.
The Neb-B would be a good ship for the Privateers...or any faction for that matter. In a way, I think we could use 4 cap ships. One that is specific to a faction, then the Neb-B that could be used by anyone.
KJFett3
Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:15 am
#155
Well, I was running this in a seperate thread do to its length, but I got a post about the focus thread being what is sent to the devs and didn't want people to think I was rcoking the boat ( ) by having a seperate thread.
) by having a seperate thread.Cap Ships, the new Guild Halls
Capitol Ships: Since the beginning, many of us have longed to get our hands on one. I always wanted to command a ship of the line and move in with fighter cover on some target, launch a shuttle with boarders and commandeer it. Such a battle would be truely Star Wars. It would involve groups of people working for a common goal of attack/defend, and envolve space and ground combat.
Just imagine the adrenaline running as you man a turret and try to track hostile fighters shooting your ships engines while your own crewmen try to repel boards in the halls below your feet with carbines and swords....knowing at any second, you could be kicked out of your station and have to defend yourself against those boards as well.
I believe the best way to put cap ships in the game is in a process that makes them virtual guild halls, a ship that is always around, not docked in your D-pad. The process would work like this.
1) A guild leader would report to a naval base and follow a quest to become a Capital Ship Captain. They would have to be a Master Pilot. They would not have to be a Pilot of their faction....Being an Ace Pilot for the RSF would still allow for being a Captain in the Imeprial Navy, or an Imperial pilot could take on the RSF vette, but not the Rebel Frigate.
There would be 3 total options of bases to run the quests, and each would not be a cookiee cutter of the others.
A) Imperial would result in the leader becoming the Captain of a Dreadnaught. This ship dates back to the time of the republic, and exists in very large numbers. Its hanger is able to support a squadron of fighters and has a decent number of hardpoints for weapons. This could be all or a mix of heavy Turbolasers or starfighter class guns. (the difference in weapons will be explained later in this writeup) This ship would require a crew of 5 onboard to move, and 10 to actually function in battle, and upwards of 20 to be fully battle ready for space battle and repel boards. Two MP ships like the Decimator would be able to dock externally even when the ship is going into hyperspace and be used to shuttle a boarding crew to other ships....or even board a friendly ship to help in its defense were the other ship boarded.
B) Neutral would result in the leader becoming the Captain of a Corvette. While this could be the same as the ones int ehgame, it could have several different types available. This ship was used by many different navies and private organizations. This ship, while smaller than the 2 ships of the larger funded navies has some advatages that make up for the smaller firepower. Its hanger holds 4 fighers in the chin, and an additional ship docked to each escape pod hatch for a total of 8 ships docked during a jump. Having about half the guns of the dreadnaught, this ship would have speed on its side. Nearly 50% faster and able to manuver faster than the dreadnaught, it could be used to find weaknesses in the larger ships to allow the small load of weapons to hit more effectively. This ship would require 3 crew to move, 8 to be functional in battle, and 15 to be battle ready. It would have no hardpoints for an MP ship to dock for hyper like the Rebel or Imp Cap ship, but it would have hard points for them to dock. MP ships would need to undock before the Cap ship hypered or risk damage to their docking system.
C) Rebel would result in the leader becoming a Captain of a Nebulan B Frigate. This is a newer ship of the line, but do to plans being stolen early on, is actually used by both main fleets. HTis ship is a mix between the two other cap ships in many aspects. With an equal hanger capacity to the Imperial Deadnaught, it is ablt to move a good number of fighters into combat. While being able to use speed (about 15% more than the deardnaught) and its wepaon hardpoints to handle ship to ship engagements. This ship would require the same number of crew as the Imperial ship and would be functional in aspects of the MP ships in the same manner as well.
2)After aquiring the rank of Captain, the Guild Leader (GL) would deploy his ship to the home system. (Imp=Naboo/Neu=Tat/Reb=Cor) The ship would then be docked some distance from the planet. At this point, the GL would have access to the ship as if it where a guild hall. All members of the guild would have entry access and the GL could add who he wished to the Admin list. A ban list would not be available. The ship would exist in space at all times, and would not be pulled out of a D-Pad. This would allow members to have access to the ship at all times, even when the GL is not in the game. All crew rules would apply, but the ship would require the GL or a guild officer be aboard before engaing in combat.
3) Combat would be PVE/PVP/GuildWar.
A) PVE: In PVE, the ship would have to be properly manned, and could patrol/lurk space lanes to capture enemy shipping, or deploy to areas of other PVE hostile ships in hopes of looting rewards etc. Some PVE actions might be
a) boarding a vette or other ship/station and running ground missions like we do now on the vette to destory/steal the ship.
b) full naval battle of destroy the other hostiles with naval stratagy of ships of the line and fighters. Areas of space could be increasingly harder allowing multiple guilds to engae in bigger battles together in PVE
c) Planetary invasion. A strike force could receive a misison from a same factioned station to handle a drug bust, disrupt an enemy base on the planet. Once deplyed onthe surface and moving into postision near the base to hit, the ground forces would be able to call in artillary support to randomly hit the base before moving in to engage.
Losing a Cap ship in PVE would result in the ship repawning in the home system and it would be unable to move for X number of hours and require repair work by the engineer
B) PVP: In PVP, the ship would move to a factioned space station and declare. Once declared, declared ships of the neutral/hostile navies would be able to engage. Neutral guilds would have the flexability to declare either way. All normal PVP rules would apply at this point, and this is where overt enable players could laod up and attempt boarding hostile ships to seize them. Doing so does not result in the destruction of the ship, but awards major faction to the winning side, and docks the commandeered ship in its home system for X numebr of hours so that it can not renegage immediatly as it is needed to repair.
C) Guildwar: In Guildwar, the system is the same as PVP, but is open to being attacked by same faction if a guild war is declared. This is more so that if captains of the same faction were to disagree on an issue, they could dela with it in deep space on their own. /wink
4) Functions of the Cap ship.
A) The ship systems, while replaceable with crafted or looted gear would require a Master Shipwright to handle the installation. The starfighter weapons would be the only wepaons that would be a crossover from the fighter class levels, all other systems would be larger systems that would not function in a starfighter, and would be craftable by SW or looted from other destroyed Cap ships.
B) The weapons would be split in two groups. Each turret would be required to be manned by a player. Turrets would function for the defense of the ship even if the bridge is not manned, and the ship is not moving.
a) Cap ship guns (Turbolasers) would be huge and function with a long range and be such that a couple hits would shred even the best fighters, but dont expect to hit many fighters with them. The targeting system will only track capitol ships, and will have a warmup and cooldown timer to prevent shooting fighters easily. Such timers will not create anissue with hitting the much slower moving Cap ships though and these gusn will be best used for engaging the larger Cap ships. Targeting would be used to decrease the timers on the gun, and aid in targeting specific componets of the other cap ship, like the sheilds or engine. A ship with all Turbolasers would do very well against other Cap ships, but would be very weak against fighter assaults
b) Starfighter guns (lasers) can be installed in a turret instead of Turbolasers. These would function exactlly as they do now in MP ships, and have no timers so that they can track fighters easily. Doing little to no damage agasint Cap ships, they would be perfect for starfighter defense and be a must for a well balanced ship, or if the ship is a designated antifighter screen.
C) The hangers would hold the designated number of fighters, and would allow the pilots of the ships to move between their fighters and the Interior easily. Ships with full hangers would be able to take on no more fighters, but additional crew could be added by use of an MP ship that docks. Fighters would be deployed to a ship in the same fashion as at a spaceport. If a fighter is docked on a Dreadnaught, and the pilot leaves on the MP ship to help in the assault of a hostile ship, they would have to return to the ship to retreive the ship again. (this is one reason for the enability to ban guild members from the ship. a guild member that is removed fro the guild would find the ship moved to the main spaceport of the home system).
In conclusion, a guild could very well live out of its cap ship. Moving from system to system. In additon to all of this for the Cap ships, guilds with functioning Cap ships would find a shuttle added to the roof of all their guild halls that would provide shuttling to the cap ship no matter where it is located as long as it is not in combat. Moving to a Cap ship in this fashion does not move any of the members ships tho, so they would be unable to fly off the cap ship unless leaving in an MP ship or calling the shuttle and returning to a guild hall they select. Only guild members would have the ability to load to the cap ship in this fashion. Non-members would also be able to land with a Cap ship of another guild, but only if they are added to the admit list. Unguilded can remain unguilded, but sponsered by a guild, and would have all the benefits of helping on the ship, but not be tagged.
No matter what the ground faction of the members, they take on the faction of the guild leader when they deploy to Cap ship. Guilds with multiple factions would find that going the neutral route was the best idea. In fact only guilds that are fully Imperial/neutral or Rebel/Neutral would truely benefit the route of going with a factioned Cap ship.
I am sure there is room for improvement on this system. I think the idea of allowing anyone to "own" the ship is a bad idea as its just not realistic that anyone of us could handle a Cap ship. I thought of how to allow unguilded have a ship, but it struck me that if enough unguilded go together to run a capitol ship, they would be well, a guild..just with no tag. So if unguilded in the numbers needed to run a ship, wanted to own a ship, they could form a guild and do so.
To expand on the guildhall function of the ships, my ideas for making it function as apartments for guild memebers would be as follows:
Upon being deployed, the ship would take a sinlge lot from the GL, and allow for 100 space in the ship. Main areas like the command deck, halls, med center etc would not be able to have items dropped (they would already be decorated like the vette is now, but the conference rooms, the captains quarters etc would be open to the GL as rooms to drop items in. There would then be an additional 10-20 rooms with their own seperate admins lists on them. The Captain would then have the authority to assign the rooms to guild members. These rooms would be bare, and the doors would not even open till the GL assined the room. Once assigned, the new owner would lose a lot, and gain 75 space in the room. It would then function like a small house. Only that player would have admin to it.
When the ship is boarded while in combat, all players in player quarters would be kicked out and the doors would lock down. Halls and all open rooms (command deck, med room, engineering, hanger, etc. etc.)would remain open for combat in the attempted seizing of the vessel.
Other rooms in the ship would have features similar to the faction bases on the ground. To commendeer a ship, the boarding party would not only have to kill or subdue the crew, but would also have to take control of the ship by doing stuff in the appropriate rooms like taking down a base. Upon completetion, the boarders would be loaded back into their ships in space, and the disabled ship with its crew would be loaded back at its home system in need of repair from a shipwright as I set out in the first post.
How should the capital ships compare to the ships in game now.
We should never see a fighter soloing a player run Cap ship. Even the best single fighters should not have the power to beat though the sheilds. Sheilds should take 6 or 7 fighters firing concussion missiles together to able to drop them...and then that still wont stop them from recharging again. Only another Capital ship should be able to duke it out with another Capital ship. This doens't mean that a full squadron of Krayts loaded with space bombs shouldn't be able to take down a corvette. They should. It just means that if they are not organized and down in perfect order, they wont succeed. And even if they do destory the ship it should be at heavy cost. A Captial ship with fighter support would still have a huge edge over a Capital ship that had no fighter cover because once the sheilds are down by the guns of the friendly Cap ship, the fighters could pick off turrets and such effectivly.
Shipwrights on board have the ability to repair components while in combat. I dont think anyone with less than Novice SW should be making repairs while in combat, and while anyone can make the repairs, they would suffer a % chance of destroying the item instead of repairing it if they are not a SW. Those with Artisan skills should be able to make moderate repairs while out of combat with no risk of damaging the parts.
Boarding actions should require the destruction of the engines and sheilds. Weapons and the reactor still being online would be acceptable.
The Captain of the shipshould have the ability to "stand down and be boarded" which would result in the ship loading back to the home system with a timer before it can move again along with awarding the points to captain that the captain surrendered to. This could only be done before being boarded. Once boarded there is no surrender.
Just some more thoughts to make the Cap ship experience enjoyable.
Capital Ships should have something Special about them above some rare quest that we know we will all figure out eventually. Quests do NOT keep things rare (points at jedi).A gate like a guild has to put in to keep them rare.
GanymedePharuu
Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:23 am
#156
faction related Capital ships should be a combination of POB ship and GCW base.
- they should be Player owned much like bases are on the ground. basically they'll be mobile bases in space. they would have a number of NPCs on board to defend from a boarding party. but also require a skeleton crew of 8 Players to operate.
- 1 captain. pilots the ship.
- 1 engineer. acts as the co-pilot running droid progs and the like.
- 6 turrets. all manned. no NPC gunners.
any additional crew members would work doing repairs, coordinating tasks and targets, assisting the NPC defenders, or launching their own fighter ships to defend the capital ship from an attack.
- Players should be able to land and launch their own fighters from the capital ship. they would be designated as "Fighter Pilots" by the ship's captain, thus linking those players' fighters to the ship. or perhaps the pilots would have to launch from the ground, rendezvous with the ship and request landing on the ship.
depending on size (if they give us capital ships of varying size) a capital ship should be able to hold anywhere from 6 to 12 fighters at any time.
(the issue of what happens to the fighter ships if they're on a capital ship when it is destroyed has come up. i suggest all associated fighters be placed back at the nearest starport [or space station if they ever make landing on space stations a feature], but with some damage taken)
- capital ships should be bought using a LOT of faction points. and maybe also take up a certain number of Player lots. taking up lots is a good way to prevent everyone from owning one.
- shipwrights must NOT be left out of the picture. they should be able to build special capital ship class components or special capital ship component repair tools. or both.
- capital ships (and the current smaller POB ships) should be able to be boarded and destroyed from the inside by Players AND NPCs. there should be cases of PvP boarding and PvE boarding.
- Players can purchase NPC controlled capital ships to patrol certain space sectors. these would act like PvE bases on the ground, providing content for PvE players. they should also be boardable and destroyable by attacking players.
- capital ships should somehow count towards the GCW. just like their ground base counterparts, the amount of capital ships of one faction or the other should count in the GCW. perhaps they should count towards an overall "score" since they are mobile, and not placed in on space sector.
- they should be Player owned much like bases are on the ground. basically they'll be mobile bases in space. they would have a number of NPCs on board to defend from a boarding party. but also require a skeleton crew of 8 Players to operate.
- 1 captain. pilots the ship.
- 1 engineer. acts as the co-pilot running droid progs and the like.
- 6 turrets. all manned. no NPC gunners.
any additional crew members would work doing repairs, coordinating tasks and targets, assisting the NPC defenders, or launching their own fighter ships to defend the capital ship from an attack.
- Players should be able to land and launch their own fighters from the capital ship. they would be designated as "Fighter Pilots" by the ship's captain, thus linking those players' fighters to the ship. or perhaps the pilots would have to launch from the ground, rendezvous with the ship and request landing on the ship.
depending on size (if they give us capital ships of varying size) a capital ship should be able to hold anywhere from 6 to 12 fighters at any time.
(the issue of what happens to the fighter ships if they're on a capital ship when it is destroyed has come up. i suggest all associated fighters be placed back at the nearest starport [or space station if they ever make landing on space stations a feature], but with some damage taken)
- capital ships should be bought using a LOT of faction points. and maybe also take up a certain number of Player lots. taking up lots is a good way to prevent everyone from owning one.
- shipwrights must NOT be left out of the picture. they should be able to build special capital ship class components or special capital ship component repair tools. or both.
- capital ships (and the current smaller POB ships) should be able to be boarded and destroyed from the inside by Players AND NPCs. there should be cases of PvP boarding and PvE boarding.
- Players can purchase NPC controlled capital ships to patrol certain space sectors. these would act like PvE bases on the ground, providing content for PvE players. they should also be boardable and destroyable by attacking players.
- capital ships should somehow count towards the GCW. just like their ground base counterparts, the amount of capital ships of one faction or the other should count in the GCW. perhaps they should count towards an overall "score" since they are mobile, and not placed in on space sector.