Pilot Archive
Thread: Focus: Player-Controlled Capital Ships
lpnix wrote:
i dont think Capital ships should be player owned there will just end up being to many of them no mater how hard they make them to get it will get out of hand. so i say make them challanging to obtain. require the mission to take a group and be tough but nothing realy hard, in order to prevent capital ship wars make it tied to the guild. how?
after the quest is finished the guild master gets the dead and can park the capital ship at the guild hall where guild members can use it. limit 1 capital ship per guild
in order to pilot it you must be a master pilot but any one can work the guns or just go on the ship if they have JTL
now with this its def plosible to make the capital ship a craftibal item, of course its going to be expensive but i wouldnt make it cost to much how?
chassi 300k steal
reactor 100k steal
100k radioactive power
100k copper
now make it so the qaulity doesnt matter the shear number of resources will make the cost over a few million but shouldnt be a problem since whole guilds will be buying the ship.
all in all i think guild owned capital ships is a better idea then player owned, making them player owned will make it there are to many there should also be other requirments like Min # of guild members maybe like this
50 members 1 capital ship
125 members 2 capital ships
200+ members 3 capital ships
I like this, having a required amount of people in the guild in order to own the ship. would prevent mass rebellion of little groups of five who wanted their ship, and also would effectively limit the total ships on a server to the total population of the server divded by fifty. also havign so much resources required- and note this, the gettting that much of the SAME exact type of resources before a shiftwoudl be hell.
There are 15 Corellian corvettes in space at any given time. maybe more like 30 gunboats. What is wrong with tons of Vettes? needing a crew of 8 I think it would awesome to see a pair of Vettes broadsiding each other. I mean come on folks. I still don't see ISDs or Mon Cals feasible. These ships take 50 to 60 people to man not 20.
Cap ships should be limited by player crew requirements. I mean right now POB ships in space how often do you see one? Rarely, with 6 to 8 man Crews needed for a corvette or gunboat that alone would limit thier presence. OR they would simply beineffective eyecandy.
Npc gunners I think would only allow every pilot to fly a Cap ship at the same time. So instead of 4 corvettes with 8 man crews we would have 32 Corvettes with a single PC crewmember. I vote for the prior.
Montya_Quatun wrote:
just a quick fyi, those of you saying an ISD wouldnt fit in space are wrong each sector of space (that means planetary sector) is 16km x 16km x 16km (x axis y axis z axis). So you would be talking about a huge spacial volume area per sector where in Star Wars a star destroyer is about 1,000m long.
FYI, It's 1600m long, not 1,000m. So it would travel only 10 times it's own length before hitting the wall.
Corvettes handle the sectors very well and all in all an ISD isnt that much longer than a corvette only a few hundred meters.
Corvettes are 150m (measured in-game it actually appears slightlylarger)
ISDs are 1600m
That is 10x it's size, not "a few hundred meters."
And besides theres always the ISD-II which is the smaller variant.
The ISD-I is 1600m
The ISD-II is 1600m
The only difference is in weaponry.
The Victory Star Destroyer is 900m and probably the one you are thinking of.
Theres also one other point the entire space game has been scaled around the larger ships already if you have ever been to deep space you will notice a starfighter does not look very big next to a Star Destroyer even the multiplayer ships are quite small comparitively.
I do NOT want them capturable. Not all of us fight on the ground. My ace pilot is a master shipwright, master merchant, master artisan, and partial droid engineer. I love to fly, so that is where I do my fighting. I should not have to become a fighter to protect something that either
- My guild paid a crap load of money for, did a lot of really hard quests, and spent faction/prestige points for.
- Whatever you will have to do to get them, the devs will not make them easy to get. You should not be able to come and steal it from me, because then all the power guilds will be the only ones to own a ship. Our guild has 80 members in it, about 45 active any given week. Between now and then, I see us losing people, and gaining new people. How are we supposed to keep up with the powerguildsthat play every second of the day? So since my guild can't support a 24 hour operation, then we don't deserve this? We get new people almost every day, meaning new characters, new templates.
- I am strongly against these things being overt all the time. I posted before I would like to see a Errant venture(a merchant/smuggler) ship out in space somewhere.
- I don't agree that there should be a ship yard that is held by a faction, and imps can come in and raid all the ships because the guild is on the ground at the time, so there is nobody on the ship.
If this is going to be done, it needs to be done in such a way that it keeps all customers in mind. Yes, make them expensive, because that means not one single person can afford it, it has to be done as a huge group. make 2 masters fly it, one captain, one pilot. This is a great idea, but if they aren't going to do it fair, then they shouldn't do it at all.
Okay a few revisions to my idea: (changes in yellow)
Qlint wrote:
Okay started reading, and came up with an idea that is a little strange at first,
To limit there number, tie them to a guild management terminal.
So to get a player owned ship, members of a guild would have to go to their guild management terminal and invest Prestige and faction points, credits, resources, and ship wright crafted components, which would generate a ship in orbit, the player on the guildmembership listwould be able to /dock and board it.
So long as it survives the guild can use it as there own, once it is destroyed the guild can generate a new one, or if my other idea got implemented, steal one.
I also agree with the idea of ship wirght upgrades, and high cost of repairs, but most systems should also be repairable from with in the ship.
P.S. just to clarify, I think the ship should stay in space once it is generated, no way to land it, only PVP overt while there is crew on board, but always vulnerable to NPCs, so leave the ship parked in a bad spot, and those tier three black suns will eventually destroy it. I think this take on it has the cool factor of, a ship yard area, a relatively safe place to theguild's ship, but any pilot in that faction side, would feel obligated to protect all the ships lying dormant in that area, from any random spawns. Also, imagine the frustration of the guild that got there ship disabled, but not yet destroyed, it would be a floating hulk until they scrounged up the repair kits and cash to get it to a station, even then it would take a healthy fighter escort, as I feel any ship with crew should be automatically overt.
Message Edited by Qlint on 06-06-2005 05:04 PM
Few quick notes, if you think these should be easy to get, run down to the seven eleven and tell them you want s Perry Class Frigate, a slurpy and a hot dog.
As for sudden uopstart little guilds, keep the cost both incredibly High and divers, so that a multimillionaire toon can't easily buy it, perhaps the in addition to the resources, credits etc. I propose above, perhas the guild terminals would also require a unique quest item to get to generate a ship.
Qlint wrote:
And a guildy gave me another idea, this might lead to griefing, but I think it would be so hard it would be worth the risk.
Make them captureable, let's say guild XYZ lost there capital ship in an attack by guild ABC, but ther is ABC's ship over there and it is overt, so they disable it and board it, just as you would for any onther capture the ship mission, instead of slicing it to self destruct, the guild leader of XYZ has his guys do a different set of slices, and he hit the "Take command" button and poof ABC guild's ship becomes XYZ guild's ship, and becomes allied with which ever faction (maybe even neutral) the guild leader directs at the time of capture.
Only a guild leader should be able to take it, and just like bases there should be a series of slices involved
Okay this idea does have it's flaws, but my tactical center (PVE) can be destroyed by oposing forces, I don't see why my capital ship should last forever.
No where here do I suggest a guild can own more than any limit, so an uber leet smack tard guild could not horde all the capital ships out there, and if they are harassing you, put together a squadron, declare for the opposite faction and leave their capital ship a burned out hulk. even if you could not destroy one from space (I think both boarding it and simply blowing the ship up from space should be viable options, I never stated otherwise, allthough I may have given that impression)
And as for leaving crafters out, while the enemy is boarding the ship, I can assure you, my master ship wright, master Droid engineer is going to be frantically re building the shield, or engine, or any darn thing he can to get us under way, and stop the boarding parties from docking. At the same time trying to get every pilot in my faction overt and over there to defend the ship while I work, heck I might find the best option is get to the ship management terminal and launch, and use my fighter to stop their reinforcements.
Besides this could through some ship skills to other proffessions, like Squad leaders might be able to close security doors, which smugglers could slice, or commandoes could blast?
I must admit, I've only read the first 3 pages of comments on this thread before deciding to post. I see people posting ideas that are awsome. And some that are rather bad. Mostly good tho. So here goes my version of what this should entail.
Before talkin specifics, as several others have suggested, double the size of the space area atleast. Would recommend larger than that even. And add in more sectors. Coruscant? Hoth? Bespin? smells like an expansion to me.
Apologies for takin other ideas, but there were alot of good ones.
First order of business would be Space Stations. These would be City based stations. Much like the cities are on the ground game. Factions dont really matter for the stations. I wouldnt recommend having rebels and imperials living on the same station, but hey. There should not be some coded reason that they cannot. Just makes things more interesting. Stations serve as docking for various types of capital ships. Unlike a Starfighter, which you can keep 6 of them in your pocket(Datapad), capitalships dont unspawn. Reguardless of who/how it's worked to own a capship. It has to be docked at a station. There, it's out of service. Out of PVP. etc. It cannot shoot or be shot. IT's for taking on crew, dropping off crew, and logging for the night. Vessels engaged in combat wouldnt be able to dock. I think that's the way it is now with starfighters. The starting Space Stations would be able to service a single capitalship. If that. maybe you have to increase in level for the station to get a docking port. the larger the Station gets is based on the number of people living there. Stations should be upgradable via modules. A medical module (aka hospital and/or Cloning center), Repair facilities, Hangar Bay, cantina, observation dome. Limit the number just like cities on planet, and limit the size. only so many lvl 6 stations etc. I THINK there's a limit per planet for cities of metropolis size. me no mayor tho. so i dunno. Ships that originate from a certain station should have a place to park. Little or no docking fee if you live there. However, some ships might need to dock quickly before a swarm of fighters drop out of hyperspace. Start paying for docking if the ship isnt cleared and there is an open docking port.
Now to Capital Ships. I would recommend making them Guild Owned and insanely expensive. A capital shiprepresents an investment over the long term. Joe Shmoe with the uberlooted item shouldnt be able to own one by selling the item for millions. Perhaps the capital ship is the Guild Hall itself. Maybe start out as a PA Space Barge or something. Minimum of 10 players in the guild. The more players in the guild, the better your vessel could become. not only a financial cost in credits or a ton of resources to have a ship, but players in your guild. Come up with whatever positions or ranking system you want. But say 10 members, a barge(All Faction). 25, a Corvette(All Faction), 50 a gunship(CorGun for Rebels, Lancer for Imps, ###gun for Neutrals), 100 members maybe a Nebulon B. That's multifaction as well. Neutrals wouldnt be able to get it. But Rebs and Imps could., finally just for giggles, why not 1000 members or 500 members or so, a Star Destroyer/MonCal Cruiser/Neutral Carrier.
Crew for the ships. I'd recommend 8 player crew. Skill or no skill requirements. It takes 8 people to man. Maybe 4 people with difficulty. pilot position, tactical/operations, Gunnery Arc Positions. Bridge positions would need to be crewed to undock the ship from it's station. The ship only needs 1 crew onboard to dock the ship tho. Net connections drop sometimes, and it's going to stink if you have to wait for the minumum crew to pilot the ship back to port where it will be safe.
Boarding a ship would be awsome. It would be tough to do toprevent griefing. Maybe only have ships over a certain level be boardable. I like the idea of raiding a ship, and blowing it to bits. Not taking over a ship, that would be too brutal. Lower end ships could be disabled only perhaps. or not boardable at all. But the higher end capital vessels, if you dont have the ability to defend your ship, dont use your ship.
Scale of the weapons. I have seen a few people mention blasting starfighters out of the sky using these uber weapons on a capital ship. Here is a quote for you, guess what it's from. "We count 30 rebel ships Lord Vader, But they are so small, they are avoiding our turbolasers" "We'll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters" Now that sounds familiar to me. The problem with the large guns on a capital ship is that they are designed around large scale assaults. Hmmm, Now I sound like Dodonna from Episode 4. Basically if you get hit by a capital ship weapon and you are in a starfighter, you wont be in a starfighter long. Make the large damage turrets move slower. Corellian Gunships and Lancer Frigates were designed to combat Starfighters. They would be nasty to deal with using starfighters. But the large ships, Nebulon B frigates and the like were designed to target capital scale ships. Do they have starfighter scale weapons? sure.. alot? no, they leave starfighter killin to the antistarfighter ships.
Quest Based Capships isnt something I'm wild about. Someone posted "Make really hard quests" and the answer was already said as well, Ahem... Jedi. There is a reason they arent really hiding anymore 
Now a guild based quest where various guild members could do various parts of the quest. That sounds alot more interesting. Maybe you have to take over a ship yourself with your guild.
Comments are welcome. These are my ramblings.
Colonel Kurax Steele @ Radiant (Master Commando/Master Pistoleer/Rebel Master Pilot)
Torani Stark @ Radiant (Master Armorsmith/Master Shipwright/Master Merchant/Rebel Master Pilot)
General Mark Steele - NR Starfighter Operations High Command - Retired @ StarWarsMUSH
The Devs introduced a flyable corvette, there simply isn't enough room in the space zones for a Star Destroyer to actually manouver. (Don't even think about an SSD.)
If you believe that craftable corvettes will litter space, than why aren't we inundated by Decimators, etc. The answer is that we could be, but we're not, because there are many disadvantages to flying one.
1. Organizing a crew is not easy
2. When organized, the crew is mostly ineffectual in the roles available. The pilot can't shoot, the gunners can't track their targets, the copilot does nothing but run droid programs... where's the fun in that??
3. The shield/armor problem negates any possible use in PvP.
The Devs (hopefully) will address problem 3, and I know that there are some good ideas about 2, number 1 isn't going anywhere.
That, along with the fact that owning a corvette (or frigate, whatever) would be relatively high cost, considering what the chassis would cost, plus parts, plus damage repair, etc., that I doubt you'd see any more than we see POB ships currently. (Since ROTW came out, I've seen player owned YT's twice.) So with that in mind, I totally disagree with the thought that a cap ship should be likened to a city, or that it must be guild owned, or that you "borrow" one frm your faction.
As to ordianance/turrets...
Let's explore the purpose of a cap ship.
1. Support of fighters
2. Transport troops
3. Transport supplies
4. Hunt and kill other cap ships
5. Protect itself from enemy fighters and cap ships
With that in mind, I think we need to introduce cap ship weapons, the big guns, so to speak, anti fighter turrets, anti fighter missle batteries. (The fighters CAN use CHAFF after all) They should have a large cargo bay, to be used for transporting supplies, resources, troops, etc.
The idea being that a cap ship is impossible for a single fighter to take down, but a squadron of 6-8 of the little buggers, or another cap ship CAN do it, with a little teamwork.
This way, they serve to strengthen the Star Wars "fight as a team" feeling that the Devs are trying to instill in the game, and they can be used for both factions AND Privateers, so everybody gains a benefit.