Pilot Archive
Thread: Please Read and Critique Fresh, Creative Ideas for Pilot Specialization (IMO anyway lol)
It Is a bad idea. It would merely turn space into another zone for ground pounders. Instead of an entirely different game, with different rules, We'd simply be a new planet, with our own FoTM templates.
On TS the other night, a number of my guilds pilots were talking of this very issue. My Point was that Space is a level playing field, as it is now. A counter point was that it Shouldn't be. Life, I was told, is Not level by any means. I agree. My point, I argued, was clouded in semantics, and poor wording on my part. I don't see the ground as being level in any respect what so ever. I recently had another player attack me on this board, and state, emphaticly that, were we to meet, he WOULD kill me. It would take a whole different meaning were we ground pounders. Rather than a test of skills, as in space, it would mainly be a comparing of templates, knowledge and familiarity of your proffession is the largest mod, then equipment / food, then circumstances, and, lastly skill.
If you think you can take me, in space, it's all me, and it's all you. Chassis, equipment, Droid Commands, these make a difference, but, as in RL craft, it's not the tool, it's the one behind the tool. You do what needs to be done, modify the tool, or, modify the technique, but the goal remains constant. Failing that, you do the best you can. You use Your skill, your experience, your knowledge to come up with a solution for what ever problem is at hand. That is what I mean by level playing field. If I'm in a Tie, and you're in a Bel... The fields level. Odds Mayseem stacked against one or the other, but, you can't tell by the packaging what's inside.
Ground is the old BS investment of Time, and only time, and after all One's grinding up a Jedi to a finished temp, what have they got... Not a Gosh darn thing. And They want to do that to space. For all the arrogance I rail against in JTL, at least it's based on Something, the arrogance of a Jedi, BH, or whatnot is based on... nothing. Wipe that char and you're in Didly Squat land. All you've got then is the memory of having done it, and the knowledge of how to do it again, possibly faster this time. Take a Good Ace Pilot, send them, brand spacking new, to another server, naked as a Jay Bird, in a new char and... they are Still a damn good pilot, but, in a new, FREE ship. A Pilot is a Pilot, regardless of what craft, or what loadout that craft is carrying.
Take a half- err Pilot and do the same, the result is the same, but, chances are, that Pilot Will be better for it. You can't say that same for the ground pounder. In that case, all you get is a frustrated Player. In the case of losing a Template they ground for a year, an Angry, angry, angry possibly Ex-Player.
HewerofWood wrote:
On TS the other night, a number of my guilds pilots were talking of this very issue. My Point was that Space is a level playing field, as it is now. A counter point was that it Shouldn't be. Life, I was told, is Not level by any means.
I never could follow this particular train of logic. Life is not fair, and thus games meant for ammusement should not be fair, either? Do these people enjoy games of poker against players who can have twice the number of cards that they can? Do they frequently enter themselves into marathons where their opposition is allowed a bicycle? Do they participate in games of Street Fighter where half the buttons on their control don't work? I doubt it. Why shouldn't games strive to be fair to everyone? It seems to me that this makes the game more enjoyable, not less. Well, unless you're the sort of person who always has to win. Then the game may not be much fun.
That isn't to say that there aren't imbalances in space. There are. But they're relatively minor in comparison to some of the glaring flaws on the ground. Space is as balanced as we can expect to make it without giving all ships the same stats, generalizing the loadouts so everyone matches, and turning everyone loose. Although I actually made a proposal for something kind of like that a while ago, kind of as a recriational PvP event thingy that would really be pilot skill vs. pilot skill. Anyway, I'm getting off on a tangent here, so I'll stop now. I'm going to hate this reply later. I usually try to end my wordy replies like the end of an essay, with something that sums everything up nicely and leaves a message. I'm no good for that today. Oh well.
id love to seeeither skill/experience/prestige-point based"elite" pilot trees - things like X-wing Specialist, A-wing Specialist, Y-wing Specialist and Nova Specialist for Rebels, for instance. You could only, naturally, specialize in one, and each elite tree would get bonuses while flying their specialized ship and new specials tailored to the role their ship plays. This would help the current ROTW-ship composite armor situation, as those ships wouldnt be specializable.
Maybe something like this...
Have one tree be "specialist maneuvers training" that gives +1, +2, +3, +4 (+5 at master)to your YPR when in your specialized ship.
Have one tree be "specialized tactics training" where you get a new skill at box 2 and 4 and maybe +25 special tactics (if it gives a bonus past 100, if not maybe +25%special tactics speed so you're ready to execute again sooner) at box 1 and 3. Special skills would be like:
- "Carpet Bombing" for Ywing/Tie-Bomber specialists that unloads all your ordnance tubes at once,
- "Weapons Overdrive" for Xwing/Tie-Advanced specialists that reduces refire rate to .1 for a certain length of time (or maybe by 25% and 50% reductionfor beginner and advanced version),
- "Thruster Megacharge" for Awing/Tie-Int specialist that gives an extra 10 YPR and 20 speed for a certain length of time,
- "Shield Deflection Algorithms" for Nova/Deci specialists that reduces damage to shields by 50% for a certain length of time. All the specials that give time-limited bonuses like that would reset your systems AFTER the specials expired, so there'd be a bit of strategic tradeoff.
These would be the real heart of the specialization, and what differentiates the different specialist professions
Have one tree be "specialized astromech protocols" that give you a 10% 20% 30% 40% (50% master) non-cumulative bonus to your droid speed and hyperspace route calculations. Maybe toss in a few new astromech programs (shield overload?), but not sure how this would work with non-specialists, if they put these in they'd need to certify them.
If they cost SPs, too, then naturally you'd be able to take just the one or two lines you wanted; even if you didnt, I think specialization would work better like ground profs than pilot profs as far as tiering goes.Message Edited by droid327 on 08-04-2005 12:28 AM
Treena_Daal wrote:
As much as I would like to do *something* post-mastery, I don't think this sort of thing is it. What makes JTL really nice is that it is the pilot that makes the difference. Giving people extra abilities in space neutralizes that, to a point. It seems like a bad step toward ruining what is awesome about JTL.
yeah i thought about that, which is why I thought it might require a SP investment to warrant the advantage;I also thought pilot commands needed an overhaul to be a useful tradeoff with droid commands, since they often do the exact same thing (e-weapons, e-engine, reactor pump) but not as well. The droid/pilot commands also address a very narrow usage philosophy, and I thought expanding the component stats you can augment, and introducing time restraints with the "downer" of resetting your droid routines,would improve strategic gameplay
But I liked the idea of having only certain components chargeable for each specialization branch, so that everyone doesnt just charge up their JSFs and we're back to where we are now Pilots cant really specialize their ships....they can get awesome components like those REd prenerfs, but with a few narrow exceptions, awesome components can be stuck into any ship with the same effect.Message Edited by droid327 on 08-04-2005 12:49 AM
S-1-l2-H-C wrote:
while i think its a neat idea to try and get more people back in GCW ships, i would much rather see a starship captain elite prof to go along with player controled gunboats and other medium starships.
thats what a Nova/Deci/YT specialist would be, wouldnt it?
If you mean like vettes and capital ships they're talking about bringing in, I dont think that'd be as easily specializable since running a capital ship is almost guaranteed to take a crew, and each crewer is only going to be in control of so much
OHh nice ideas this deserves bumper sticker lol
THis would be awsome i could speacilize in my dunilized or others this would be awsome . THe all ordence out thing at once is a no no but how about a dumb missile instead this would have a rally fast fire rate no lock so it cant track but against gunboats and stuff it would be nice
Treena_Daal wrote:
I never could follow this particular train of logic. Life is not fair, and thus games meant for ammusement should not be fair, either? Do these people enjoy games of poker against players who can have twice the number of cards that they can? Do they frequently enter themselves into marathons where their opposition is allowed a bicycle? Do they participate in games of Street Fighter where half the buttons on their control don't work? I doubt it. Why shouldn't games strive to be fair to everyone? It seems to me that this makes the game more enjoyable, not less. Well, unless you're the sort of person who always has to win. Then the game may not be much fun.
Well, I hope you don't hate this;
That's a good point, Treena. I've never thought of that it this way. Life Isn't fair, and, by and large, games Strive to be, the examples above are great. Cheaters are generaly abhored. Granted, the rule sets for Poker, chess, Marathons and other such games are fairly simple and straight forward. Far more murky when it comes to simulations, and other games where everyone does not start with the same equipment / setup. Which... Might lead to discussions of events such as Running, where training plays such an enormous role -- Physical training. Chess, Poker, these are pretty much games of the Intellect / Psyche, and, there too training, skill and control mark the difference between the amateur and the proffessional but, Games are, at their core, Teaching instuments, and are cross - Species (hehe more Random Capatilizations, hey! it's a style, it's how I think ).
But, I think you're right; on their Face, games attempt to exist on a level playing field. It may not be a Well matched competition to have a Record Holding Marathon Runner racing against someone who rarely gets off the couch, but, it could Still be fair, as long as the potentials were equal. Maybe that's it though... the Potential. hmmm
I don't know, Treena, what do you think about this; One of the things about games such as MMORPG's is that they aren't so much about PvP -- Like Chess, hide and seek, etc -- outside those few which Are. In Anarchy Online, EverQuest I & II, Asheron's Call I & II, heck, even in SWG, a player can go an entire Toon's lifetime without ever engaging in combat against another player. What am I trying to say? In many ways you are playing against both yourself and against the environment. A game of solitaire takes... minutes, maybe longer, but, not the Months and Years that many players sock into these Online Games.
How far have we deviated from our roots? I wanted to say, what would we be without variation, if all was the same, thinking that MMO's are an entity to themselves but, we have our start in Role Playing Games; Pencil and Paper, and, where do Those systems stem from? How much is, simply stemming from "Make - Believe", Even as we were busy playing Monopoly and Red Rover, weren't we also playing Cowboys and Indians, Cops and Robbers, House, Pirates, and What Have you? We learn in this manner just as we do from the games which revolve around certain, set, and, Fair rulesets. Often times, in games of make believe, outcomes are decided long before the game is begun. Some would say these games enforce Cultural Mores, Or are simply reflecting what children are Seeing, and ingesting. It can often be eye-opening watching children play, the eye of a Child can often Strip bare many,long held assumptions and beliefs.
So, I geuss I am left wondering, are we coming here for Make Believe, or, is it something else? On the Ground I would say I am more into make believe, and there, variety, etc, is what I'm seeking. It's mainly a solo game for me, or, something I still have not quite grasped. After many years of this I Still don't know why I play and, I'm not entirely proud of doing this as a main past time... I just... don't want to quit. It feeds something in me, I'm, just not sure what.
In JTL... I seem to be of another mind altogether. I enjoy the Pure challenge to my skills. Hey look! hehe I'm almost through Storm Squadron too! hehe. How many of us have gone and done that simply because we heard it was difficult? I get tired with the RPG MMO's fairly quickly. I stopped my progression on my Fixer at 192... just a couple of days from hitting 200... it just lost all flavor for me. I suspect the exact same thing will happen with JTL but, at the moment, it's like nothing I've played before. This is the first time I am good. AO was nice because it was complicated, and, a knowledgeable player could be heads and shoulders above an ignorant one. It has far too many variables to have straight FoTM templates, but that's nothing against JTL.
I don't know, it's a little rambling but... your post hit home.