Pikeman Archive
Thread: GTO's melee ideas 3. knockdowns and finshing attacks
I've got some IMHO worthy ideas for the elite melee professions, but not for any one of them in particular. However, there is simply no 'SWG development discussion' forum of any kind, where one can put forward their general ideas, so I'm just going to cross-post them in all the elite prof forums, because I'm looking for input from every one of them.
Part 3: Knockdowns
The 'problem'.
A judoka can put you on the ground, a pikeman can hit his staff into your legs with a low sweep, even a good swordsman and fencer can hit your weapon out of the way long enough to move in and put shoulder to shoulder to smash you to the ground. And once you're on your back from being knocked over, you're not gonna be able to last long in a fight to the death. There's various things a martial artist can do to quickly make your lights go out, not to mention having a sword or knife.
In-game
We can knock an opponent down and using dizzy or warcry depending on who or what it is, we can make them stay down a little longer. But we can't finish them off. This goes mostly for Player vs Player/NPC combat, as creatures are always going to be unrealisticly strong/weak in an MMO. I'm happe enough being able to knock a 3000Kg Rancor down, I don't need a finishing move as well
Alternatively:
A humanoid should have a higher resist to being knocked down, but once they're down and you're not... they're done for. The way it is now, I could knock a player down, smash a knife in their throat and 2 seconds later they'll get up and knock me down in turn. A good martial artist will not be knocked down as quickly as we are in-game. And then there's the whole aspect of fighting when you're on the ground, you can see that in Freefight fights. I think if in this game you smash your sword into someone's neck after knocking them to the ground, they should be dead. To compensate, it shouldn't be very likely you knock them down with just the one press of a button. Spamming the button won't help either. You can't just knock a healthy and fit person down, you have to wear them out first. The chance of you knocking them down relies not only on their Defense vs. Knockdown, but also on a dynamic number that is linearly dependant on the percentage of damage they've taken. If you take someone down to half their health, they will suffer twice as high a knockdown chance as if they were full health. The dizzy and stun state effects both put another 1.5-2 modifier on them. If you have them on the ground, your meleehit1 becomes a 'finishing move', taking down 1/4 - 1/3 your enemies base stat pool values at the expense of twice it's normal HAM cost.
Result:
I expect more strategic PvP/NPC battles. You can't just open up with a dizzy - knockdown attack because that won't just work. You'll have to try and make them dizzy and stunned, and as you wear their health out you can try knocking them off their feet, though you never know if it'll work or not. If not, you wasted a precious attack round and are one step closer to being knocked down yourself. If it does work, you've almost won, as it should be.
Part 3: Knockdowns
The 'problem'.
A judoka can put you on the ground, a pikeman can hit his staff into your legs with a low sweep, even a good swordsman and fencer can hit your weapon out of the way long enough to move in and put shoulder to shoulder to smash you to the ground. And once you're on your back from being knocked over, you're not gonna be able to last long in a fight to the death. There's various things a martial artist can do to quickly make your lights go out, not to mention having a sword or knife.
In-game
We can knock an opponent down and using dizzy or warcry depending on who or what it is, we can make them stay down a little longer. But we can't finish them off. This goes mostly for Player vs Player/NPC combat, as creatures are always going to be unrealisticly strong/weak in an MMO. I'm happe enough being able to knock a 3000Kg Rancor down, I don't need a finishing move as well
Alternatively:
A humanoid should have a higher resist to being knocked down, but once they're down and you're not... they're done for. The way it is now, I could knock a player down, smash a knife in their throat and 2 seconds later they'll get up and knock me down in turn. A good martial artist will not be knocked down as quickly as we are in-game. And then there's the whole aspect of fighting when you're on the ground, you can see that in Freefight fights. I think if in this game you smash your sword into someone's neck after knocking them to the ground, they should be dead. To compensate, it shouldn't be very likely you knock them down with just the one press of a button. Spamming the button won't help either. You can't just knock a healthy and fit person down, you have to wear them out first. The chance of you knocking them down relies not only on their Defense vs. Knockdown, but also on a dynamic number that is linearly dependant on the percentage of damage they've taken. If you take someone down to half their health, they will suffer twice as high a knockdown chance as if they were full health. The dizzy and stun state effects both put another 1.5-2 modifier on them. If you have them on the ground, your meleehit1 becomes a 'finishing move', taking down 1/4 - 1/3 your enemies base stat pool values at the expense of twice it's normal HAM cost.
Result:
I expect more strategic PvP/NPC battles. You can't just open up with a dizzy - knockdown attack because that won't just work. You'll have to try and make them dizzy and stunned, and as you wear their health out you can try knocking them off their feet, though you never know if it'll work or not. If not, you wasted a precious attack round and are one step closer to being knocked down yourself. If it does work, you've almost won, as it should be
Part 3: Knockdowns
The 'problem'.
A judoka can put you on the ground, a pikeman can hit his staff into your legs with a low sweep, even a good swordsman and fencer can hit your weapon out of the way long enough to move in and put shoulder to shoulder to smash you to the ground. And once you're on your back from being knocked over, you're not gonna be able to last long in a fight to the death. There's various things a martial artist can do to quickly make your lights go out, not to mention having a sword or knife.
In-game
We can knock an opponent down and using dizzy or warcry depending on who or what it is, we can make them stay down a little longer. But we can't finish them off. This goes mostly for Player vs Player/NPC combat, as creatures are always going to be unrealisticly strong/weak in an MMO. I'm happe enough being able to knock a 3000Kg Rancor down, I don't need a finishing move as well
Alternatively:
A humanoid should have a higher resist to being knocked down, but once they're down and you're not... they're done for. The way it is now, I could knock a player down, smash a knife in their throat and 2 seconds later they'll get up and knock me down in turn. A good martial artist will not be knocked down as quickly as we are in-game. And then there's the whole aspect of fighting when you're on the ground, you can see that in Freefight fights. I think if in this game you smash your sword into someone's neck after knocking them to the ground, they should be dead. To compensate, it shouldn't be very likely you knock them down with just the one press of a button. Spamming the button won't help either. You can't just knock a healthy and fit person down, you have to wear them out first. The chance of you knocking them down relies not only on their Defense vs. Knockdown, but also on a dynamic number that is linearly dependant on the percentage of damage they've taken. If you take someone down to half their health, they will suffer twice as high a knockdown chance as if they were full health. The dizzy and stun state effects both put another 1.5-2 modifier on them. If you have them on the ground, your meleehit1 becomes a 'finishing move', taking down 1/4 - 1/3 your enemies base stat pool values at the expense of twice it's normal HAM cost
Result:
I expect more strategic PvP/NPC battles. You can't just open up with a dizzy - knockdown attack because that won't just work. You'll have to try and make them dizzy and stunned, and as you wear their health out you can try knocking them off their feet, though you never know if it'll work or not. If not, you wasted a precious attack round and are one step closer to being knocked down yourself. If it does work, you've almost won, as it should be.
I like the idea of as your health goes down your easier to KD. Once down though there should not be a quick 2 hit I win button. If i'm wearing armor your punching metal to get to me. There is already a variable added to being prone. Does it need adjusting...maybe..but not a 2 hit win.
I would also recommend that a KD move leave you more vulnerable for a brief period. I mean you didn't just try to hit me you put enough force in the blow to try to take me off my feet. That type move takes commitment and should leave you wide open for a counter if it doesn't stick. That would stop the spamming in itself because if it didn't stick you would take a nice blow. Also on the reverse..as your health goes down It should be harder for you to KD someone.
for me club.
Knock em' to the ground and stick it where ya like!
First off, in UFC the only things that aren't allowed are eye-gouges and kicking a person in the head whilst they are down.
Strikes to the knee and elbows to the head are very legal (and very good strategies).
Secondly charging a person in an attempt to knock them down is referred to as a 'shoot'. Hence the term 'shoot wrestling'. It is a tactic used by all these fighters to put the opponent down to the ground.
Also single leg trips and judo tosses are all very common as well.
The point being is that these people don't wait until halfway through the fight to try a kd. They do it early and often. The best way to beat your man is to take him down and beat him on the ground.
) and gaming.InSWG, we fight to break and kill, not to win thematch and shake hands afterwards You my friend don't watch much in the way of UFC, or that ilk.
The fact is that any skilled martial artist can indeed knock down a healthy fit person. Judo, wrestling and sumo are all examples of sports where the whole idea is to throw the other person around. Knocking a perfectly fit and healthy person over is as easy as getting them off balance followed by a little nudge.