Pikeman Archive

I mean are they so insecure that the Correspondent must come over here to 'correct' our calculations/observations/experiments because there's no way that Pikeman could be inferior to Swordsman right? Uh, what game has he been playing? I mean if he going to come across that way he needs to elaborate on just WHY there are 50 Swordsmen to every Pikeman and just HOW in practice they are far superior to us in PvP AND in PvE. Because that is clearly the case, what just better advertising and quote 'smarter' players in the Swordsman profession. Hmmm I think not. If anything successful Pikemen must be the smarter players to overcome such gimpage.

Padre

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Dynastar wrote:

They have a reason to "fear" us due to the fact that we also have the right to claim being the hardest hitting melee profession, and that any improvement in our damage and/or area attacks is cutting directly into their domain aswell.

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Oh. So any steps that actually bring Pikemen closer to what our description says is really a nerf to Swordsmen? Hmmm. If that's what they believe in the church of righteously indignant blast damage, how can I argue. Best to avoid fanatics.

Padre

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PadreBook wrote:

Oh. So any steps that actually bring Pikemen closer to what our description says is really a nerf to Swordsmen? Hmmm. If that's what they believe in the church of righteously indignant blast damage, how can I argue. Best to avoid fanatics.

Padre

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In essence, yes. You raise the damage of a class, you're erasing the advantage another class had. An indirect nerf, but a nerf nonetheless.

Yeah, its a good idea to avoid fanatics who only wish to argue, there's alot of them, on both the Swordsman and Pikeman side.

*nod*

Swordman thinks they should be the High Damage Guys ... (That's what I think too) but some Pikeman thinks it should be us ...

So I guess Swordman are afraid we steal their definition ...

Personaly I see pikeman as a Crowd Controler ... not as a High damage hitter

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Dynastar wrote:

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PadreBook wrote:

Oh. So any steps that actually bring Pikemen closer to what our description says is really a nerf to Swordsmen? Hmmm. If that's what they believe in the church of righteously indignant blast damage, how can I argue. Best to avoid fanatics.

Padre

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In essence, yes. You raise the damage of a class, you're erasing the advantage another class had. An indirect nerf, but a nerf nonetheless.

Yeah, its a good idea to avoid fanatics who only wish to argue, there's alot of them, on both the Swordsman and Pikeman side.

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Hmm, but where is the line where you have to cross it because it's too little otherwise. As it is currently Swordsman serves the function of both Swordsman as intended and the function of Pikeman as intended. Pikeman needs more to at least serve one of those two functions. Gosh, if that might not make Swordsman less powerful in relation to just us alone. How unthinkable.

Padre

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PadreBook wrote:
to 'correct' our calculations/observations/experiments

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Technically, though, if numbers are wrong the are wrong, but it's not always as black and white as that. numbers can be pushed slightly to lean one way or another. One can say: "These are standard values I have seen everywhere" and someone else can claim that one set of values can be slightly higher, and another set slightly lower and ignore another set although knowing the values can be different, all depending on preference. I was trying to use fairly common values. If I had something wrong, it can be corrected, but there might not be an end to the "leaning".

antares
master pikeman

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antares_Kauri wrote:

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PadreBook wrote:
to 'correct' our calculations/observations/experiments

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Technically, though, if numbers are wrong the are wrong, but it's not always as black and white as that. numbers can be pushed slightly to lean one way or another. One can say: "These are standard values I have seen everywhere" and someone else can claim that one set of values can be slightly higher, and another set slightly lower and ignore another set although knowing the values can be different, all depending on preference. I was trying to use fairly common values. If I had something wrong, it can be corrected, but there might not be an end to the "leaning".

antares
master pikeman

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Problem is that there is some context issues that are being glossed over. Many of the effectiveness issue we have stem from taking WAY more damage because of block (and unlike Rifleman we don't have Concealshot). As far as the damage production side, kinetic versus blast hmmm need I go on. Swordsman is clearly more effective in practice so is it the combination of features?

Padre