Pikeman Archive
Thread: In response to the survey, however, its so extensive, I made a new topic...
Lengthy, but worth the read...
Name: Equilibruim Ieveceaga
Server: StarSider
Skills: 0/0/3/1
Other Skills: Scout, so I can sell some frakin hides to make SOME kind of money...
3/3/2/2 Medic... A neccisity for pikeman along with crates of moun and fishal and glucose...
Almost Master Marksman... for the sake of a badge and some chance of winning in extreme PvE Situations...
Novice Artisan, again, to make money...
I see pikeman as a godly class waiting to be unleashed... by simple physics, and blade swung on the long end of a pole multiplies the force of the swing, therefore allowing more output power than input, or, increasing its efficiency by the equation WORK IN/WORK OUT= Effiency... the polearm would be classified as a class 3 lever, like the baseball bat, and that states that more work can be output by the staff than input... combined with a vibrating blade that cuts through flesh with the smallest amounts of force to begin with, plus our RANGE, and our ability to block swords with the pole and still be able to attack quickly afterwards should make us the highest damaging melee class there is... the advantage of polearms in real life is simple... they can swung very fast, and you can attack very quickly, especially off a block... Think about it... A swordsman faces a Pikeman, the swordsman swings, the pikeman uses the middle part of the polearm to block... now that the sword is against the pole, the pikeman can rotate the shaft to bring his blade down on the opponent without ever opening himself to attack... however, if the swordsman wanted to attack, he would have to pull the sword back, and start a completly new swing... The strength of pikeman lie in balance, technique, and chaining together blocks and attacks to make every block or attack look like one fluid movement, which it is...
I hope I havent lost you in the above monologue, however, that is the hardcore facts... And NONE of it is refelcted in this game... We are outdamaged by inferior swords, while faster, have to recoup after swining by bringing their sowrd back if they are blocked... However, since you only swing one end of the pike, if youget blocked, down comes the other end, without delay... its truly hard to block a pike with a single sword or other weapon, because if you stop one end, your completely vulnerable to the other end... and even in light of the above, we are still outdamaged by fists and one-handed swords... We hsould have extremely LOW ham costs, due to the amazing amount of damage applied with so little force... once again, this is not reflected in the game whatsoever... Pikes are the slow, terrible accuarcy weapons, which is so far from the truth its rediculous... they are very fast weapons that are hard to master, but are deft in the hands of knowledge... real pikeman chain attacks together (Watch some master fight with them and observe... they use the length of pike to their andvantage by constantly hitting or interfering with the attacker... WE should be outdamaged by a powerhammer, the crushing force under the weight is enourmous, however, they arent nearly as fast... yea, you can whisk a sword around real fast, but in combat situations, your gonna get blocked an have to pull back... your not gonna do some whisking BS...
However, we see ourselves being damaged by swords that attacker far too fast, and never being blocked when they should be, the easiest thing to block with a polearm is a sword since you have the whole pole to block it with... however, we see none of high-damage, low HAM cost stated above... although I do agree our accuracy should be lower if target is right in front of us ( IE within 3 feet) becuase its hard to hit a target that close hard, becuase of the lack of the lever arm (Meaning you would have to "choke up" on the pike to hit him), howver, thats not feasable, since all NPC enimies go toe to toe wwith you... our accuracy should be a tad less than other melees, but we are so fast in chaining attacks that it makes up for it...
What I would like to see...
I would like to see everything above sondiered and implemented, along with the ability to chain attacks into one large move... IE certain Certs could be placed for combos along the combat XP line ( the slowest of the lines) For a few different chain attacks, the first might be Polearm lunge one, followed by a regular strike right after... Then polearm sweep 1, followed by a regular hit and polearm hit one afterwards.. I dont know.. we'd be vulnerable during that time though, suffering 2x damage in the duration of the chain...
My thougts...
There could also be bonuses, like Chain Attack Effiency + 10 scattered throughout the profession...
A PERFECT example of my reasoning above is the battle between Darth Maul, Qui Gon, and Obi-Wan...
Darth took on two Jedis, and almost came out the victor, had it not been the movies... look at the way his attacks and blocks are fluid, while the jedi have to pull their sabers back to swing again (However, since this is star wars, they dont completly pull back, they kind of rocochet off and they make that into another swing)...
Hope devs catch a glimpse of this...
Guys, seriously, take a look at this post... I think it covers our problems pretty well...
And it's good, too. Nicely done! I thinkthe devs were at some point tossing around premilinary ideas on combos that fit right in with what you mentioned.
antares
master pikeman
That is the best post I have ever read.
*Trying not to cry*
You should take that to the discussion boards. where it might get picked up, and also repost it on the sticky pike suggestions for improvement. It would have a better chance of dev attention there I think.
Ovy
Lowca
2/1/3/2 pike
1/1/2/1 carbine
only other relevant combat skill is ranged support, the rest is for harvesting etc.
Personally my goal is to master pike and carb to become somewhat of a suppression specialist. When it all works that is.
I think the problems we face are indeed given no direction. We seem to be the someones novel idea, which was never givin a breath of direction. I do personally belive that the devs are trying to do something about it, but they need to have the direction first. I'm not too sure they have that.
As stated, there are different schools which utilize the pike in some form or fashion. The moves that are availible to us would seem to speak of a quarter staff, how ever the weapons seem to be more of a heavy pike. A heavy pike in battle is rarely used past the initial clash of troops. Yet, our acc. mods and speed seem to reflect this. That would leave me to belive the devs are trying to mesh two completely different methods of using a big stick in combat. What we miss is toughness. If the vision is to have us inbetween then we need to seriously up our tanking ability, sweep alone does not cut it. Blocking is good, but it's not enough. As I will go down quicker than an unarmored, unarmed TK. Reducing HAM costs would help this alot, the combat changes would seem to reflect that...hopefully. What would be more condusive to the effect a pike would have in combat would be an attack with a warcry like side effect. Where even a block, or a dodge would delay the target. In theory, I don't care who you are but when that 50lb counterweight comes screaming at your head, you might block it, but it will throw you off your game for a sec.
However, if we are ment to tank and deal out signifigant damage in intervals only (heavy pike school) then we cannot be dropping so easily. I do belive we were ment to tank in the devs eyes, this combat change might effect that in a real good way in a seince of no longer mind raping or draining our action pools so low that we can no longer run away 
3 cents
I am talking about the "Asian" technique, which is also implemented in star wars, in the use of the double-bladed lightsaber and the way it is used... that is the way I believe polearms should be used... the only other methods I could think of would be the pikes used in the initial onslaught, but they are too large for close range combat...
WE should seriously be on eof the best melee classes, however, Im afriad it will ruin our individuality as pikeman, since people wil horde the profession... but its something we must give to recieve...
They should give us a choice then... one skill tree for heavy pikes, and the other for meduim ( I doubt there would be light as those would most likely be bamboo branches... Id like to see those against mereks =))... it should be like that for all professions, like pistols would have light and heavy sidearms, etc
I agree to some extent; this is a made up universe and the rules of logic may not apply as we know them
Equilibruim wrote:
the advantage of polearms in real life is simple... they can swung very fast, and you can attack very quickly, especially off a block... Think about it...
once again, this is not reflected in the game whatsoever... Pikes are the slow, terrible accuarcy weapons, which is so far from the truth its rediculous...
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=27506
It's a shame we can't add images to our sigs.
Equilibrium wrote:
A swordsman faces a Pikeman, the swordsman swings, the pikeman uses the middle part of the polearm to block... now that the sword is against the pole, the pikeman can rotate the shaft to bring his blade down on the opponent without ever opening himself to attack... however, if the swordsman wanted to attack, he would have to pull the sword back, and start a completely new swing... The strength of pikeman lie in balance, technique, and chaining together blocks and attacks to make every block or attack look like one fluid movement, which it is...
I think thisargument is a bit flawed in reality as well as the effect on game design. Inthe real world, unlessthe pikemen maintainshis range he's severly limited in the effectiveness of his attack and defense.A true swordsman wouldn't just be using just his sword to attack he'd also use every method he knew to tryand close the distance to gain the advantage. Now how do you simulate this in agame.
Ithink weapon selection should play a much bigger roleas a pikemen than it does at the moment. Do you want a fast lightweightpolearm that has lower damagebut is muchfaster for defense,a longer rangepolearm to keep a target at a distance, or a heavy hitting weapon that will requirea longer swing time?It would be great if fast pikemen weaponsgave say +10 block if the are extremely fast. Also a new move,Knockback: Use to knock your enemy(ies) back to help maintain distance,would make for a much more dynamic fight. It would also distinguish the class from the others be certain key differences and strategies.
Darth maul does not use a polearm.
A polearm is used for long distance attack with power and decent speed. The most obvious example of the difference is that the main staff vs. staff block would be to block with the center of the staff (which would cut his lightsaber in half) Its inverted in all its logic and combat styles. I would like to see far less posts assuming we should use darth maul moves.
Even basic staff fighting isn't what we are... we are polearms.
Best place to learn more about the attacks we should be able to do is Sould Calibur 2 Seung Mina uses a polearm and is easy on the eyes.