Pikeman Archive

Alrighty, lets get to work. Folks let discuss this is a calm mature, organized manner. This way we can pluck some ideas and ways to assist the Devs to make life easier for us.

Knockdown timer, this is a issue with many people, not just us. As a melee polearmist I most certainly believe we should have better KD ability then any other class. Look at any mythos Pike wielding person. The KD is critical. Darth maul could be used as a example since he basically uses a staff. Look how many times he KD'd Obi Wan, and Qui Gon.

However the flip side is the way that KD was originally implemented was flawed. Being able to spam one attack that causes your opponent to not be able to react til he is dead is flawed. Basic game design heralds this fact. So something had to be done, and the fact is we will never get the original KD back so we as a communitee need to give the devs some ideas on how to change our KD without makin it so we can abuse KD.

One idea is of course just to reduce our timer. I think percentage reduction would help, but I am not sure how feasible this would be since the actual timer only affects the target. In other words as I tested last night, the timer works as follows....

Say player A was fighting player B, player A knockdowns Player B. Player B now has a 30 second timer initiated where it is impossible for him to get knockdowned. So say Player C comes into the picture and attempts to KD Player B. he can't due to the fact that Player B is still on a 30 second KD invulnerability timer. This kinda stinks personally for me even more so since I have two different KD's, I also have one in the Pistoleer tree and can't stack them. Since I took the time to take two different combat tree's I was hoping I could stack my KD attacks. Thats not the case.

The way it is programmed now I think it would be very hard for them to program a reduced timer for us. I understand why they did it so that two or three people couldnt just go ahead and chain KD a person. But still it kinda stinks. So I don't see the time reduction thing happening. At least not without a great deal of actual code changes.

So discuss what do you guys think? What are ways to make it so we can have "improved KD" without making it so we can abuse KD

Please only intelligent conversation if at all possible.

I agree, I think KD is a powerful attack and maybe does need a tweak.I vote simply adjust the timers and maybe even give PikeMan an extra Defense Bonus so We don't get pounded.

A simple solution would be to increase the "Players defense" against the KD. This would provide a two-fold solution.

1) It would reduce the spamming/success KD in PVP (which appear's to bethe only important aspect to SOE)

2) And if would leave the PvE element alone. I have never heard once we were over-powered here. Personally I thought it was pretty good. A Tusken commoner would KD 90% of the time (independant of delivering damage) Whereas, a Warlord appeared to drop aboput 25% of the time.

Else, just keep it all the same and just reduce the damage delivered by the attack (or make it include part of the aforementioned as well).

These are simple solution that I dont see a significantdownside too. If there are any holes please pipe up.

Well you see you do get defense against knockdown and one against posture change. So they didnt bother to look into those defenses at all. I know Tka gets them as well havent looked at the other melee classes.

How about adding a KD bonus that determines the duration of the KD timer? So, when you first get KD, it's at like +10, and you have a 30 sec timer, then when you get sweep2, you get an additional +10, and your timer is now down to 15 secs. Then, finally, when you hit Master Pikeman, the timer is reduced yet again to, say, 5 secs.

I think if you combined this with increased defense vs. knockdown for the other classes, things would be pretty equitable.

Um it would help if we could hit the thing we are trying to kill. The timer might be ok if we could just hit the **edit** thing!!! I use more of my ham just trying to hit it than it does to me and if i dont use specials it just kills me so if we could hit it then i dont think there would be as many problums!!!

I'm for the increase of the defense vs knockdown applied to all mobs / players. New skill? I dunno. The 30 second timer is just silly. Especially since we have multiple specials that involved KD.

I don't want the labor pains... I just want the baby!

Well, SOE asked about knockdown, and the replies they got were in favor of a KD timer. I, personally, am a fan of it, because the KD spam was ludicrous.

But, I do agree that since a quite a few of our moves are posture change/KD (including our most powerfull move) that we do need KD in order to prevent kiting.

The + defense idea doesnt work, because those defenses dont seem to be working in the first place.

So what to do? How do you not screw the melee classes without having a return on the KD spam? This is a tough question, but I think that taking ranged players accuracy while moving completely away would fix the kiting issue, and make us viable in PvP, and get rid of the KD problem.

For PvE, we don't really need to spam knockdown. I hardly ever use knockdown...I almost always just use beserk or polearm hit 2 in PvE, and it's worked well for me so far.

So in conclusion...for pve we really arnt screwed, theres other ways of killing mobs. Granted, not everyone will be able to solo those mobs without medic skills, but I'm not a supported of having everything in the game soloable anyways....makes for a more enjoyable experience imho. For PvP, take way ranged players accuracy while moving, and we'll be a lot better off.

I will be the first to admit I know little about PvP above the casual duel waiting for the shuttle - so stop me if this is/was already implemented. I am a pikeman, converted from pistoleer btw - keeping master doc. Concerning knockdown, could there be two different systems? One for PvP, and a second for regular hunting? Maybe the timer could be in place while in PvP, yet somewhat removed while hunting? (And I really hope they're including the pistol whip skill in this knockdown nerf. It depresses methat with all the advantages ranged already has over melee, a pistoleer can, when and ifI catch up to him,whap me w/ the stock of his gunand knock me flat).

I agree the spamming of area knockdown (though I exploited it) felt broken - too easy and needed to be made less effective. But the 30 second timer is too harsh. Many of our skills revolve around knockdown (as stated in other posts), and rightly so. With a change this drastic, a single skill box for an area sweep almost seems like a waste now?

I know this is from a limited point of view, but its my two cents.What about a universal run speed bonus to advanced brawlers (pikemen, swordsmen, TKA's, fencers) coupled w/ a 20 second - or so - knockdown timer applying to both pistol whip and KD in PvP. For outside PvP,a timer is needed, but hopefully it doesn't stay at 30. As it is now, it seems to me the Devs. made KD less effective AND added the timer. I feel this was a bit too much andnow have trouble killing eventwo "mid-strength" mobsby myself - which I think I should be able to do as a 3rd tier pikeman.

Just thought I'd offer that upas a pikeman who plays PvP casually, and is more into crafting,mob hunting,and making stims to keep the PvP'ers in the game and happy.

Comments? Opinions? Do I have no idea what I'm talking about?

for me the kd timer is good bcs spamming it is a lame tact.

But waht i dont understand is why peeps can stil move after a kd. If they wasnt able to move during the all effect(5sec) of kd we would have a chance in pvp. But for the moment u kd and the peeps just run thats the problem.

If he was unable to move during 5sec we woudl have time to aply a dizzy or jsut switch to LVA and put 1 or 2 hit b4 he can run and the nhe would be dead.