Pikeman Archive
Thread: Report Draft 2, input needed
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Gunman21
Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:29 pm
#1
Thanks for the first rounds of inputs. I've included some of your suggestions, and have also changed the formatting to be much better. Please review and offer a 2nd round of suggestions/comments/etc.
Thanks!
Pikeman Improvements Needed
- Pre-Reqs (stacking)
- Modifiers
- Melee/Ranged
- Weapon Defense
- Specials
- Single Target
- Duration
- Broken Specials
- Bonus Suggestion
Pre-reqs
Problem
In order for pikeman to dabble in 3 melee professions, they must invest in 4444 brawler. Pikeman is the only melee profession subject to this skill point sink, and it harms the ability for dabblers to effectively take up pikeman and have a good template.
Pikeman is up against a very stackable combination between TKA/Swords/Fencer in which the template will include the accuracy tree from each profession, and the stacking of advanced armor break, improved critical strike, and improved center of being. (Template is master swords/0403TKA/0004Fencer/4004doc). The combination of accuracy + specials + the ability to pick up excellent healing and self buffing make this an extremely high end template that no pikeman template is able to match due to the sp investment. The dabbling ability of swords/fencer/tka due to the pre-requisite setup is vastly superior to pikeman, leaving us the odd melee profession out.
Compounding the problem: CL. If I was to invest in 3 melee professions as a pikeman, I could do so and still have decent healing, but without some of the bells and whistles which makes the tka/fencer/swords template special. This template would be Master Pike, Master Brawler, 0100 TKA, 0034 Swordsman, 2002 Doc. However, because of the extra skill point sink into the brawler tree, my CL would only be lvl 71, which further prohibits dabbling.
Solution
There is no best solution to this problem, although I belive having a round-robin format, where TKArequires 1h, Fencer requires 2h, Swords requires polearm, and Pike requires TKA, would be a good solution.
Another suggestion is to setup melee pre-reqs like the ranged pre-reqs, where 3 melee professions require a single brawler line, such as TKA.
Modifiers
This ties directly into the tanking game and explains exactly why tanks do not feel like they can survive more than non-tanks.
Problem
Tanking professions do not enjoy a bonus to our defensive modifiers over damage dealing professions. Below is a comparison of defensive modifiers between pikeman (tanking) and swordsman (damage dealing).
Pikeman: 85 melee defense, 55 ranged defense, 65 polearm defense
Swordsman: 85 melee defense, 60 ranged defense, 50 2h defense
Swordsman: 85 melee defense, 60 ranged defense, 50 2h defense
The above tells us that swordsman are equal in melee defense, better in ranged defense, and only slightly weaker in weapon defense. ***however*** 2h defense tapes drop that allow swords to get +25 2h defense, making them better than pikeman in 2 of the 3 categories, and equal in the third. Pikeman weapon defense tapes do not drop.
Solution
The first thing that is needed is that polearm defense tapes need to start dropping, asthis will allow players to enhance thier tanking ability. Next, the defensive modifiers need to be clearly better than that of a non-tanking profession. Our defensive modifiers should be *at least* 30-50 points higher than non-tanking professions.
Specials
Problem
While our specials have the potential to add to our tanking ability, they are very difficult to use, apply, and manage, meaning only the best micro-managers will be able to succeed as a pikeman.
These specials, intimidate/warcry, are intended to enhance the tanking ability of pikeman. Warcry is a cone which is also inneffective in being applied to a group of mobs/players which are standing all around you, and intimidate is a**single target attack** which means a pikeman will be ineffective when fighting groups of mobs/opponents. Nearly every lair, dungeon, or pvp outing will see the tank or tanks faced with multiple mobs which puts the pikeman at a severe disadvantage.
The duration on warcry is very short as well, adding to the need to micro-manage. Advanced Thyroid Rupture, which has the exact same effect as warcry, has a 2 minute duration rather than warcry’s 20 second duration.
Solution
Our specials need to be easy to apply and manage when we have multiple mobs around us. We need to be able to take the damage from these mobs, without having to individually target and apply our two tanking specials to each mob. The first way to fight this problem is to make Intimidate and Warcry 5m Area of Effect specials. While this has the possibility of being very powerfull, having only a 5m range ensures that any target hit by these specials is able to target the pikeman easily. This is the only way to make sure that our specials are easy to use and manage.
Intimidate, given an AOE, would be a decent special, since 45 seconds is easy to manage, and 20% spread across multiple mobs results in a lot of damage saved. Warcry, however, would need a boost to the 20 second duration, up to 30 seconds in order to improve its managability.
Seperate special issue:
We have a broken special, stun, which should be a staple special to pikeman. This special needs to be fixed to help the profession.
Bonus discussion: Armor
I would like to take a minute to hit on another problem with the tanking system. In the damage system, weapons are divided into damage categories based on the profession using them. For example, a Powerhammer, used by a damage dealing profession, has the ability to reach 1400 damage, whereas a polearm, owned by a tanking profession, can only reach slightly over 1200, and that's very rare. This is perfectly acceptable as weapons damage should be a variable on profession roles.
However, when we look at the armor system, which is meant to protect players, we find that there is no difference in armor based upon profession role. Pikeman and Swordsman are certed for the same armor, which has the capibilities of the same protection depending on the crafter. As I see it, since weapons have higher damage capibility based on role, so should armor. Tanking professions should have higher protection armor than non-tanking professions.
Solution
I suggest re-assessing the armor certifications. Assault armor should be certified to tanking professions, while recon would be assigned to damage dealing, and battle to anything in-between. Assault would have higher damage protection than battle, battle higher than recon, and so forth. Obviously, this doesn't sound like a small change. But it's something that needs to be done to achieve a balance in the tanking game.
Message Edited by Gunman21 on 08-27-2005 10:52 PM
antares_Kauri
Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:14 am
#3
Sounds pretty good. Though, I doubt we'd get an AoE intimidate, that seems to be a Jedi specialty now... I hope we can get these things fixed, the report is straightforward and clear. Nice job.
antares
antares
WarWidow
Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:46 pm
#4
Great post and good ideas.
Armor is an iffy subject. I wouldn't move us out of the Battle Armor catagory. Battle is fine for Pikeman. I see heavy armor as a negative for melee.
I agree that Polearm defence tapes/AA's need to drop. Or just increase our defences at Master level. TKA has COB for its prime tank skill...give us a natural +25 more in polearm defence.
We do need and area state effect attack, I back this. If we are to be crowd controlers, mobs should fear mobbing us! Powerful area attacks should only be at Master level, this way its an earned ability not a dabbled one!
If they don't fix the pre-reg problem, the lease they could do is give us more defence. Would be nice to have some extra skill points though.
I notice Chefs still making food that grants block/dodge enhancement. Would be nice if we could grant some form of old school skill at Master level. Like a natural dodge or block ability for melee fighters. This could be our edge for being nimble on our feet for being melee.
ROOT/SNARE is key for ranged attackers, I don't want to see this taken away. But many melee dabblers have poor movement skills and are slow unless burst running. We should have at lease some limited form of ROOT/SNARE recovery.
Better weapon choices. Elemental damage needs to be looked at. If we had more choices, we would all be using different weapons instead of pre-CU Vibro Lances. This could be a bonus for dealing damage.
Armor is an iffy subject. I wouldn't move us out of the Battle Armor catagory. Battle is fine for Pikeman. I see heavy armor as a negative for melee.
I agree that Polearm defence tapes/AA's need to drop. Or just increase our defences at Master level. TKA has COB for its prime tank skill...give us a natural +25 more in polearm defence.
We do need and area state effect attack, I back this. If we are to be crowd controlers, mobs should fear mobbing us! Powerful area attacks should only be at Master level, this way its an earned ability not a dabbled one!
If they don't fix the pre-reg problem, the lease they could do is give us more defence. Would be nice to have some extra skill points though.
I notice Chefs still making food that grants block/dodge enhancement. Would be nice if we could grant some form of old school skill at Master level. Like a natural dodge or block ability for melee fighters. This could be our edge for being nimble on our feet for being melee.
ROOT/SNARE is key for ranged attackers, I don't want to see this taken away. But many melee dabblers have poor movement skills and are slow unless burst running. We should have at lease some limited form of ROOT/SNARE recovery.
Better weapon choices. Elemental damage needs to be looked at. If we had more choices, we would all be using different weapons instead of pre-CU Vibro Lances. This could be a bonus for dealing damage.
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