Pikeman Archive

Neclonmite wrote:

VERY biased log. I'm the first to agree pikeman needs more dmg but this does not really show anything.

Target out of range.

If you are saying the log is biased then SW:G is the one that isbiased, they're the ones who made this combat log.........

You swing at Neclonmite but miss.

TKM one of their abilities is highest toughness (toughness translate into resistance). Plus you have dmg mitigation against you here.

EXACTLY.

You swing at Neclonmite but miss.

If you want a good comparison of autoattack dmg you need to find a diff target, something that is going to have equal resistances to both of you.

So you're saying that this is a good thing........that we should shun our eyes from this data and look elsewhere because it wasn't against someone with equal resists?.....What the hell do you think im trying to point out?............Am I trying to point out howmuch of a balanced and equal profession we are?......No, im trying to point out how bad we are overall (INCLUDING RESISTS)compared to a fellow melee profession....thereexists noequally incompetent meleeprofession to make a, "good comparison"......

You don't have enough pool points to do that!
You don't have enough pool points to do that!
You don't have enough pool points to do that!
Target out of range.

auto-attack against auto-attack really just means jack anyway. One of the pikeman's serious issues is that their specials have such crappy multipliers. 2.5 dmg on novice hit2. Fencers get 3.5. There is no point in the weapons doing more dmg if all they have to do isa special and they equal the dmg pike puts out and swing 3x as fast.

You use use Leg-Breaker on Neclonmite and hit for less than other meleeprofessions would their Master move.

Ok, I guess all this data up there means absoluty jack right?...........that this doesn't voice anything about our profession and means absolutely nothing....gotcha....

You use Leg-Breaker on neclonmite but miss.

Neclonmite uses Spitting Rawl on youand doesan amount of damageyou will never be able to match
Your post has been incapacitated by Neclonmite.

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

Ok, I guess all this data up there means absoluty jack right?...........that this doesn't voice anything about our profession and means absolutely nothing....gotcha....

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No, it doesn't mean jack. It most certainly does say something about our profession.

First, it shows that we couldn't hit water if we fell out of a boat. You miss way more than the tk guy, even with master status as well as master brawler.

Second, it shows that due to our missing so much, tks have a MUCH higher dps because of their extremely high hit rate as well as damage mitigation does not seem to affect them much at all.

Third, (and this is the point I was trying to make in my previous post) it shows that our ham costs cripple us in no time flat. The tk guy you were fighting was able to spam specials without much loss to his pools whereas you, only using a couple specials, were out of gas right off the hop.

I don't think anyone was trying to negate your post, or say it didn't mean anything. I believe we were just pointing out that your description of what you were attempting with this test wasn't really accurate and the end results were not in accordance with what they should have been had you BOTH just used auto-attacks and nothing more.

Your points are still valid in every sense, it's just your presentation that was off a bit.

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Legwand wrote:

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

Ok, I guess all this data up there means absoluty jack right?...........that this doesn't voice anything about our profession and means absolutely nothing....gotcha....

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Your points are still valid in every sense, it's just your presentation that was off a bit.

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

Whoops.......I forgot what PH3 was called in combat spam.......not Leg-Breaker....Back-Breaker?.....

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ph3 is "bone-breaker"

antares

master pikeman

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

Heh..sorry...........I'll try better next time..............

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Do I detect a note of sarcasm here? Hmmmmm.

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antares_Kauri wrote:

ph3 is "bone-breaker"

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I'm going to post my log here in support of the point ryushi is trying to make.

This is me with very little tk skill, a couple boxes of fencer and master pike/brawler. I'm fighting a guy who is 4434 pikeman/master brawler.

I am wearing no armor at all and have no weapon in my hand, not even vks. We are using NOTHING but auto attacks.

You will see how even though Set does more damage to me, I end up with better dps due to him missing and the frequency of my hits.

Heres the post enjoy.

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Legwand wrote:

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

Heh..sorry...........I'll try better next time..............

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Do I detect a note of sarcasm here? Hmmmmm.

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Yep, i'm not Master Pikeman but...

http://www.mdn-clan.com/swgscreens/imagenes/screenshot0245.jpg

find a good weaponsmith and get a -35 ranges mod LVA, then do the test again

i'm master brawler and master pikeman and with a -35 ranges mod LVA i don't miss in PVE and for PVP if my target has notCoBon i don't miss either, with CoB on it's another story, i miss sometimes but he too

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RyushiYoshi wrote:

My test duels rules are no KD/Dizzy, no armor, no buffs/Powerboost, no drugs, no foods, no consumable enhancements of any kind (Including for weapons), andno healing....straight up fights.

Notice theconsistency of the auto attack damage compared to the TKM- In this battle the lowest damage dealt through autoattack for Master Pikeman/Master Brawleris 10 and highest is 50...which is a 40 damage variation. Compared to a Masterunarmed individual's auto attacks...lowest 67 and highest 69..........his lowest damage is significantly higher thanmy highest attack. The TKM specials cost LESS than Pikeman and do MORE damage then Pikeman (Example, PolearmHit3 has x3 modifier - Compare to TK/HS/Fencer x4 modifier for their Hit3 moves{?confirm?})

My LVA is 137-475 damage, AP2, 4.4 speed, 42.3% wound, -54 @ ALL ranges, 80+/60ish/40ish, which I believe is of slightly above average quality. (Used other weapons too including doubleDoT lance and Vibro Lance (VL) but don't remember stats as well.

I actually have more pictures of same TKM with same rules and under same environment using UAH3/Spitting Rawl for 261+ damage....I would post but im too tired.......

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You can get a better test by migrating stats to be equal all around. Granted that HAM levels and secondaries don't effect to-hit chances, or attack damage, but it's one more thing that can be made equal to give accuracy to your tests. Also remember, Pikeman is an armed profession, that means you are expected to get bonuses from better weapons. Realistically what weapon would a master pikeman use? Not a wooden staff. I don't know how to deal with the vibro knuckler question, is that still unarmed? TKA is an unarmed profession and VK are only used by TKA. So what do we do to ballance this test?

There is a 4 month combat revamp underway. Pikeman are slated to get new weapons and fixes. The devs have already said the -54 range mods ARE NOT intended. Nothing combat wise is going to be done before then. The devs have said it'll take 4 months and things will be unbalanced (some things too easy some things too hard) until it's done.

This thread won't do much because the devs work through Gunman21 and he has done a good job of convincing the devs that all is not well in Pikeman land.

Oh and try this with a regular vibro lance instaed of the LVA. See if the -34 range mods give you more accuracy than the -54 range mods.

"If you are saying the log is biased then SW:G is the one that isbiased, they're the ones who made this combat log......... "

Biased was the wrong word, it is simply a very very narrow look at a very very narrow situation.

"So you're saying that this is a good thing........that we should shun our eyes (etc...) No, im trying to point out how bad we are overall (INCLUDING RESISTS)compared to a fellow melee profession....thereexists noequally incompetent meleeprofession to make a, "good comparison"......"

As for showing how bad you are overall, my point is you're really not doing very well at that at all. Overall means everything. It means a much more scientific view of it. At the very least that would mean taking your log, then comparing it to a log of TKM vs TKM. That would show a much better view.Also do your test against heavy sword and fencer. If you want to show how good we are overall you need to cover the "overall" by covering more than just a duel with 1 profession using no specials.

"You use use Leg-Breaker on Neclonmite and hit for less than other meleeprofessions would their Master move.
Ok, I guess all this data up there means absoluty jack right?...........that this doesn't voice anything about our profession and means absolutely nothing....gotcha....
You use Leg-Breaker on neclonmite but miss.
Neclonmite uses Spitting Rawl on youand doesan amount of damageyou will never be able to match
Your post has been incapacitated by Neclonmite."

Where to start. 1. Leg breaker is not a master move. 2. it needs its multiplier increased, there's no logical reason for this move to not be 3.5 dmg mod. I have made a post with some hard data on dmg multipliers that I have found. Sure your log voices something. It voices "pikeman suck against tkm with just autoattack" which is a very narrow issue. PIkeman suck against everything because of their weapons, dmg types, armor piercing, special moves, and everything. Sure I pile through rancors with near master pikeman but that does not make it a good class. I pile through rancors slower than any other melee, and take as much or more dmg than any other melee. That is the point that needs to be made.

Instead of being so defensive you should take the constructive criticism and turn it to good use. If you're motivated to make logs, make complete ones with all the problems displayed.