Pikeman Archive
Thread: Idea for Combat Revamp
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HurriwanShinobi
Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:51 pm
#1
Make Pikeman have the biggest range....
Why a Fencer gets the same range as a guy with a polearm is beyond me
Khoivo
Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:45 pm
#2
Here is what I think
Profession Speed Damage Defense
TKM Fastest Least Damaging High Melee defense, low state defense
FencerModerate speedModerate Damage High Melee Defense, low state defense
Swordsman Slow speed High Damaging Low Melee defense, high state defense
Pikeman SLowest Most damaging. Low Melee defense, high state defense
The pikeman is the powerhouse of the melee group, the tank. We go in first knock em down a bit, get them stated and kd's, along with the swordsman. Then the close range profs come in, with their speed and finish off a group.
Pikeman need some new weapons. I prefer a blast weapon, like a big stick with a steal ball on each end. the speed woudl have to be somethign in the 5 range, but the damage would exceed 600, crafted. qualify for at master.
The second being a stun weapon (I know alot of you want this). It owudl have moderate speed, say 3.5 to 4, but the damage would be only around 300 or so. Qual at master.
Currently melee mitigation is killign us, since our damage range is so wide, our high damage pikes only have 150 to 250 min damage, and that hurts. Drop the max damage on all our weapons, while upping the min.
I think we shoudl be capped at speed at master, but onyl at like 85, while our accuracy needs to be high to hit multiple target. I say capped at 120, but getting 100 at master. This woudl even us out a bit, we may be slower, but we hit more often.
Tell me what you all think.
Tathizar
Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:47 pm
#3
swordsmen should have higher damage then pikeman for one, for two teras kasi should be able to out damage fencer, 3 i don't think teras kasi should have the worst state defense...
Khoivo
Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:50 pm
#4
Tathizar wrote:
swordsmen should have higher damage then pikeman for one, for two teras kasi should be able to out damage fencer, 3 i don't think teras kasi should have the worst state defense...
Ok, I have a club, you use your fists, who do you think will do th emost damage. YOu also did nto see th espeed. TKm may be th eleast damaging, but it is also th efastes. The pikeman is the powerhous eof the group, we go in there take down their ham, state em, Hence the high state defense, while TKM and fencer goes in and finishe soff th ejob. TKM is way to ove rpowered, I know, I was a TKm once. No way someones fists will do more damage than a club or a big stick.
Tathizar
Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:57 pm
#5
ok im not bias here dude, im a master pike and master tk.......
everyone "thinks" tk is over powered.. it isn't, we only have kinetic damage.. pike gets energy, electricity, and kinetic. you can outdamage a teras kasi artist easily right now anyways with a good pike.
teras kasi we're suppose to be the jedi hunters or whatever you want to call em. Teras kasi are like our equivalent of ninjas, im not saying they should be most powerful but surely more powerful than a fencer... you obviously didn't read where i said swords should be most powerful then pikes
Message Edited by Tathizar on 11-03-2004 09:57 PM
Khoivo
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:07 pm
#6
Tathizar wrote:
ok im not bias here dude, im a master pike and master tk.......
everyone "thinks" tk is over powered.. it isn't, we only have kinetic damage.. pike gets energy, electricity, and kinetic. you can outdamage a teras kasi artist easily right now anyways with a good pike.
teras kasi we're suppose to be the jedi hunters or whatever you want to call em. Teras kasi are like our equivalent of ninjas, im not saying they should be most powerful but surely more powerful than a fencer... you obviously didn't read where i said swords should be most powerful then pikes
Message Edited by Tathizar on 11-03-2004 09:57 PM
Yes, in PvE we can keep stride with a TKM, but in PvP, with Melee mitigation what it is, and our damage being so wide, even with an 1100 damag epike, I am still hard pressed to do more than 20 damage to someone with 80% kin, ene, elect. While TKM is so fast, the do aroudn the same damage, but alot mor eof it over time. In that little chart there, I have TKm as the fastest melee group, and well they shoudl be, they have no weapons to swing, but they are still only using their hands and feet. I did read where you said Swordsman shoudl be more powerfull than pikeman, I also disagree there. Swordsman mainyl use swords, soem prefer a powerhammer. You have to look at the weapons though, which shoudl do more damage a sword and a hammer, or a big ole blunt stick with an axe on one end. With the speed and damage the way I have it. The damage is even ed out. Swordsman is faster than pikeman, so therefore can attack faster, but have a less damaging weapon, it evens out. Pikeman have a more damaging weapon, but ar emuch slower than a swordsman. Yeah we can hti harder, but we are slower. And ninjas usuallyt relied on speed rather than damage to take down an opponant. Whiel a pikeman relies on brute strength over speed.
Tathizar
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:12 pm
#7
the problem here isn't a tks speed / damage, its their unarmed toughness +64 add that to a set of 90% comp armor and yes, teras kasis are very hard to attack. we barely do damage to others but the fact that its even harder to hit us makes it seem that way
Tathizar
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:14 pm
#8
oh btw... YES i love the idea of changing the lunges or something to a distance based on the weapon your weilding..
Weapon Lunge 1 Lunge 2
Unarmed (VK)5m10m
1h weapon8m15m
2h weapon10m 18m
polearm15m 22m
Khoivo
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:23 pm
#9
I think the problem lies in mitigation myself, rather than unarmed toughness. Melee mitigation effects a pikeman more than unarmed toughness can. And thatis because our damage range is so wide.. Her eis a break down. Say a TKM is doing 20 damage every 1 secondm which is true, they do hit once a second, whil eI as a pikeman is hitting 20 every 2 seocnd. in6 second you have done 120 damage to me, whil eI have only done60 to you. You, using you r fists have twice the damage I do, and I have the much better weapon. The biggest problem right now in combat is mitigation. Also, I may have a better weapon 1100 damage than a swordsman 600, but his min damage is 250 to 300, while mine is 150 to 200. He will do more than double damage to me, in that same amount of time.
Ok, I am tired, and need soem rest. This has been a decent debate, hopefulyl we can continue it tomorrow. Your input, no matte rif I agrree with it or not, has been insitefull.
Tathizar
Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:53 pm
#10
i think armor is a pain more than mitigation to be honest but either way the added toughness a teras kasi has doens't help...
and a speed capped pikeman can attack once every second as well
Jedi1006
Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:41 am
#11
good ideas fellas. i like them all and agree tkm should be least damaging while sword and pike should be most damaging. makes no sense how sumone can hit harder with there fists then with a huge long vibro axe or power hammer. ya know?
ccrunner84
Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:14 pm
#12
My take on it is that TKA should have less toughness, this is based on that they can kill their opponet faster than they can be killed. Pikeman need as much toughness or more than a swordsman because there slower. Just doing simple things like that equals out the playing fields.
I feel the biggest problem is melee stacking. They need to make it something like Polearm Defense vs Dizzy, Unarmed Defense vs Dizzy. Theres nothing more frustrating then coming up to an opponent thathas picked up every defense in all the professions.
HurriwanShinobi
Thu Nov 04, 2004 3:26 pm
#13
Tathizar wrote:
oh btw... YES i love the idea of changing the lunges or something to a distance based on the weapon your weilding..
Weapon Lunge 1 Lunge 2
Unarmed (VK)5m10m
1h weapon8m15m
2h weapon10m 18m
polearm15m 22m
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