Pikeman Archive

I believe I may have been seeing some potential problems with block (keep in mind it says counterattack in our combat logs when we block) and would like to know if anyone else has noticed these.

The past couple of days, I've noticed that even in CoB, when I "counter-attack" (read: block) and I am wearing armor, nearly every time, I get two messages: One stating I "counter-attack"ed and one immediately following it saying that my armor absorbed some amount of damage. I was beginning to watch for this, to see if it ever had any effect on my HAM bars when this happened, but this was troubling.

Then last night, I ran into something else that bothered me even more. I was fighting a nightsister and got hit 3 times (all direct hits to the mind, arg) My combat log showed the messages:

- First hit went through, red text stating I had been hit for 700 points, followed by message stating how much my armor had absorbed.

- The next two hits were these counter-attack/block messages only. Then I was incapped. My mind was at the time 900 and only about 400 made it through in the first hit. So...if I blocked the second and third hits, tell me, how did I get incapped? Surely this is not working as intended.

We all probably need to watch this to see if block (counter-attack in our combat logs) is still allowing us to take damage, but not showing that we had. Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

antares
master pikeman

Yes, I've noticed the same thing. I didn't think much about it, as to figure out damage vs. armor absorption would require too much math, and that would hurt my head.

I have seen the +block+ annimation, even tho it never says it in the log. So apparently we block/counterattack, or whatever but we also seem to take the hit. I suppose that we should take some damage even if we did block the hit, since it still was a hit, but it should be greatly reduced.

I have not noticed it in CoB, since that move has not really made it into my combat style yet. When I do think of it, I'm usually about to drop.

I wonder too about when it says things like "Bob hits you for 10k of damage, but you shrug it off". Did Bob hit me for 10k or did I shrug it off. It always seems like I take the damage. Am I just happy about it?

If we are taking damage even while blocking, this should be fixed, I don't see how it could be intended, and if it is intended (beyond me), then it should show how much we take. Fencers and pistoleers don't take damage when they dodge, why should we when we block? Also, just as a side note...how can we block ranged shots?

I don't think we should take a hit, because we're blocking it with our weapon, not our body or arms.

Basically, we need a good explanation of how block/counterattack/dodge are supposed to work and what happens.

I didn't like being incapped and seeing messages about how I counterattacked/blocked the hits, but still took the damage evidently. I don't like seeing a message that I counterattacked/blocked, then a message about how my armor absorbed some damage, but I silently took some also. If this is the way it's supposed to work, what's the point?

antares
master pikeman

I agree.

This doesn't happen to me every time, but at least once or twice a battle, maybe more. I will still take damage even though I counterattacked with CoB. Been noticing this for a while.

Hehe, yeah, fortunately realism doesn't come into play, otherwise it would make no sense for us to block ranged shots. I probably should have put a " " after that comment, heh.

Try wearing armor when checking this out, too. I noticed that I got the message about my armor absorbing damage nearly every time I got the "counterattack & shrug it off" block message. I didn't think too much about it until I got incapped from shots that supposedly were blocked.

antares
master pikeman

Have you tried without wearing armor? It may be the absorbtion rate/armor effectthat is screwing around with the CoB.

I haven't yet, I was busy fighting nightsisters last night and did not have the luxury of taking off my armor. I'll test this all out more tonight, definitely, with and without armor.

antares
master pikeman

Has anyone checked their logs to confirm that they are blocking (or counterattacking) more than 3%? I'm wondering if block is not working at all, and everyone is just seeing the 3% chance that any person has to counterattack. (Noules00 did some tests on "to hit", it also showed that non-combat players were getting a 3% chance to CA)

--Rorrimot

I know for a fact that with CoB you will counterattacl/block more than 3% of the time if you have atleast Novice Pike. The problem is, no one knows if we actualy avoid the damage.

---

KolTaggar wrote:

block/counterattack/dodge are all the same move.

---

I'm not 100% sure of that, KolTagger. I thought so for a long time, but I suspect they may in fact have differences.

I'm looking into it.

Here are some tests I just did. (remember "counterattack" in our combat log shows up as "block" in others' logs)

This is with 70% Ubese full armor. Not using CoB, I am attacked by a singing mountain clan arch witch. Shoots at me and misses. Hits me for 512, armor absorbs 430. Scout shoots at me, I counterattack, armor absorbs 19. Witchswings atme, I counterattack, armor absorbs 219. Hits me for 428, armor absorbs 359. I use CoB now. Witch swings at me, and scout shoots at me 4 times total, my armor absorbs a total of 954 (each time I counterattacked I took damage and armor absorbed some). Scout shoots, witch swings, both miss. CoB wears off, witch swings, I counterattack, armor absorbs 241, scout shoots me for 637, armor absorbs 9. I'm incapacitated.

Try it again without any armor. I am missed 6 times, then the arch witch swings at me twice, I counterattack both times. Nothing in combat log but "counterattack". Scout shoots, I counterattack. Scout 'uses advanced strafe on me for 1391, but I counterattack'. I'm incapacitated. Every time I "counterattacked" I took damage.

One more time. Run up into group of Mt. Clan with CoB active. I am missed 2 times, counterattack 7 times, then incap. Each time I "counterattacked" I took damage.

I took screenshots if anyone really needs proof of all this.

So...every time I "counterattack"ed, I took damage. If we are to assume that this "counterattack" in the log is reallya block like what shows up in other's logs, then either something is wrong or we got the bad choice of defenses with block such that we take damage each time (if that is the way it is supposed to work...) Granted, the Mt. clan were hitting me for 200-300 each hit when I blocked, so the damage appeared to be lowered by some amount, but still. If this is the way block is supposed to work, why give it to us when we already have the lowest damage, and counterattacking swordsmen and dodging fencers *don't* get hit? WHY? WHYYYYYY???

antares

master pikeman

"why give it to us when we already have the lowest damage," should read: "why give it to us when we already have the lowest defenses". Sorry, too upset to use the right words.

antares

master pikeman

This explains why we were having some debate about whether block was working or not, I think...some were feeling the reduced damage more than others. Grrrr.

antares

master pikeman