Musician Archive
Thread: Flame Me Now Opinion on Speed Buffs
Message Edited by FrostBrimstone on 04-21-2004 06:05 PM
FrostBrimstone wrote:
sorry, but I still have not seen anyreason to proclaim this as a Exploit. The devs and CSRs have proclaimed numerous times that this is not an Exploit. it is in the game shcematics and part of the Macro system. The macro system was put in place for players to be able to create macros that allows us to grow and find better ways and techniques to enhance our gameplay.
the only reason why anyone at all is complaining is from the 1-5% of the Actual ppl who play Musician/Dancer for in game time. the other 95-99% are us hologrinders and players who are in it to make credits or in game money.
Forcing us to have to spend an average of 3-6 weeks on a profession is boring. and if you do not play 7 days aweek 8 hours a day like some of us like me, then it 2-3x the duration to master it.
The Buffs are not reasonable enhancement to warrant a 8-10 miunute wait for the buff to be perdormed as well as the 20-30 minutes going from planet to planet to find the masters.
here is what I am talking about. My zabrak's stats are as follows:
Stat - Before Buff - After Buff - Percentage increase - Duration - time to buff
Health - 500 - 3000 - 500% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Str - 300 - 2800 - 833% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Cons - 300 - 2800 - 833% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Action - 1300 - 3800 - 200% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Quick - 300 - 2800 - 833% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Stam - 300 - 2800 - 833% - 3 hrs - 15 secs
Mind - 1000 - 2000 - 100% - 2 hrs - 600 secs
Focus - 500 - 1000 - 100% - 2 hrs - 600 secs
Will - 900 - 1800 - 100% - 2 hrs - 600 secs
as you can see, it is not feasbile to even try to get a buff from a musician or dancer. cause it takes too long. Most doctors charge 8-12k for a set of 6 buffs. while Dancers and Musicians are charging 8-20k for their 1-2 buffs. Think I am kidding, go to coronet and ask them for a buff.
with the Speed Buff inplace, this lowered the time to get buffed and allow ppl back into the game of playing.
and with a doctor you can at least buff yourself. as a Musician/Dancer, you can not.
a Doctor can master the profession by healing a tumbler in 1 day. a dancer/musician with hout the speed buff macro or speed CP macro, has to take 3-6 weeks of entensive game play to master their profession.
So instead of whining about this speed buff, accept it.
90% of all the current Dancers and Musicians are here forone reason Only - HOLOGRINDING. they have no plans on staying as these professions and are either doing it to get it over with or doing it to find their Silent profession
since I did my speen XP macro, I went from 0/0/0/4 in Musician, to 4/2/4/4 with 45k/100k in Music Wound 3.
I hate the profession and I love the macro.
again, as I state - THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT -it does not use a 3rd party program or does it break the games code by altering and of the games computer language. These are actual in game commands in the UI toolsets and are promoted by the SOW and SWG game yo be used to their fullest extents.
Message Edited by FrostBrimstone on 04-21-2004 06:05 PM
Well, if the original intent was that you could buff someone very quickly, then wouldn't it have been designed in a way so that that is how it would work, even without use of a macro? 
It used to be possible to survey for resources indefinitely using a macro without being at the computer, but they changed that somewhat. There have been other things fixed that are labelled as exploits inthe update notesthat didn't use any type of program, and could be accomplished just by using things in the game. So, just because it uses things that were put into the game, that doesn't necessarily means its not an exploit.
Yes, it is often hard to find Master Musicians or Dancers in the cantinas for buffs. Mostperformers that I know usually leave these cantinas once they become masters. After all, it can be discouraging, and not very much fun, to be in a crowded, laggy, cantina with constant spam, in a group that is 85% AFK -- including some Masters 
.
As for the differing opinions on this, it wouldn't seem right to change how Entertainers, Dancers, and Musicians play based on how the majority of the players want to play,since the majority of those players do not even enjoy the profession, and have no intention of remaining in those professions once they master it. While anyonecould have good suggestions on how things can be improved for any profession, shouldn't those improvements be made based on input from those who actively play the profession? 
"the only reason why anyone at all is complaining is from the 1-5% of the Actual ppl who play Musician/Dancer for in game time. the other 95-99% are us hologrinders and players who are in it to make credits or in game money."
End quote
(/flame on!) Just because your the majority doesnt mean you can ruin our profession! If all of us wanted to be weaponsmiths and I was figured away to produce weapons from thin air that were better than anything you could make ever then created a charachter that did it AFK and despensed them to everyone free of charge. It would drive your old weaponsmith charachter into the dirt and make playing him no fun.(oh and assume the CSRs think its not an exploit) Do you see what Im saying. We as REAL MUSICIANS should decide our fate not a bunch of whining Afkers who want to make a quick buck. And for your information I usually didnt charge for buffs since only my freinds asked me for them. Another thing you, and many others, seem to forget about is the reason alot of people play a musician charachter. THE MUSIC! Speed buffs make crap music. Another huge reason people play a musician or dancer is to socialize. Hard enough with 30 afkers packed in tight. But when people are only in there for 30 secs try making an interesting conversation besides "I am your pawn to do as you say Oh mighty combater!" ARGH! And it doesnt have to be an exploit to be annoying and damaging to our profession.
You made one good point, we should be able to buff ourselves although that has nothing to do with speed buffs. Lets look at what may happen in the next few weeks/months.
1. Speed buffs widely accepted and used by hologrinders everywhere. Combat types = Happy, Holotainers = Happy, Musicians =
2. Real Musicans unhappy so they leave for other professions or games. Combat types = Pleased, Holotainers = Happy, Musicians = gone
3. Jedi Revamp! Musicians = Gone, Holotainers = Gone and being jedies and they are ----->, Combat Types = mind buffless and maybe Displeased. Chefs = More busy, other crafters = unphased, unless they had ent freinds, Devs = lets pull down those stupid empty cantinas
Sooo as you can see accepting speed buffs not the answer. But if...\
1. Speed Buffs are SHUT DOWN! Combat Types = Still buffed but slower so, Kinda displeased, Holotainers =
(serves you right!), musicians = 2. Jedi Revamp! Musicians = Extremely Happy, Holotainers = gone Being Jedies (which are -->) Combat types = Sorta pleased maybe because they still have musicians willing to buff them, Cantinas = Filled with happy Entertainers
So as you can see shutting down the speed buffs may in a small way aid you. But more importantly it aids the community that does it. So get over yourself because Entertainers are not combat type's little lackies that are there only to please you, we want to have a fun gaming experience also. (/flame off)
Look, man, you keep going on how it isn't an exploit because it is in a macro. Macros have nothing to do with it. Let's say I figured out a way to dupe items. Then I go and write a macro that automates my item duping. Then I say--no, no, no, duping items isn't an exploit! I'm using a macro to dupe these things, and macros are perfectly legal to use!
Do you understand how your logic is flawed? Forget about the macroing part of it, that has nothing to do with your exploiting or the nerf.
You were circumventing the cap on the number of flourishes possible. The devs didn't want people spamming 30 flourishes every ten seconds. They went in and actually programmed a check for this, had the server only accept five at a time. By spamming stop/start, you were getting around that check that was placed in the game by a programmer.
Your thread was deleted where you outlinned the exploit, there is a fix on Test Center. It seems obvious to me. You need no opinions anymore. You lose. And we all lose.
We had three minute buffs, which were great. Just a few months ago we were all buffing for 8-10 minutes. But three minutes wasn't good enough for you, was it? So now we all suffer. Thanks.
And doc buffs? It usually takes me a half hour to finally get a decent doc buff, with the damn lines.
Now since, as you've repeatedly stated,you hate the profession and you've done your part to actuallyhelp destroyit for the people who actually enjoy playing musicians, please drop entertainer and be on your way.
Both musicians and AFKers are saying the same thing, "Holocrons are the stupidest thing ever!" They make people play parts of the game they would otherwise never think twice about. And we would all be alot happier if in order to get Jedi a new system was in place. Which is happening soon. So until then I think musicians may just have to grin and bare it. =( im afraid that this arguement is pretty pointless.
DroppingEnglish wrote:
FrostBrimstone said:
"the only reason why anyone at all is complaining is from the 1-5% of the Actual ppl who play Musician/Dancer for in game time. the other 95-99% are us hologrinders and players who are in it to make credits or in game money."
End quote
(/flame on!) Just because your the majority doesnt mean you can ruin our profession! If all of us wanted to be weaponsmiths and I was figured away to produce weapons from thin air that were better than anything you could make ever then created a charachter that did it AFK and despensed them to everyone free of charge. It would drive your old weaponsmith charachter into the dirt and make playing him no fun.
I wouldn't care if you made wpns and sold them or gave them away. if you found a faster way then me, I would instead of getting pissy like you think I would, but find out for my self and either use it or incorporate it some how. I am still a master WS and guess what, I don't do it for profit. I did it cause my BH needs wpns and was tired of buying inferior products.
DroppingEnglish wrote:
3. Jedi Revamp! Musicians = Gone, Holotainers = Gone and being jedies and they are ----->, Combat Types = mind buffless and maybe Displeased. Chefs = More busy, other crafters = unphased, unless they had ent freinds, Devs = lets pull down those stupid empty
I hope that this is true for you. If you ask all them hologrinders, most hate the profession cause it is boring. And don't **edit** at me cause I wasn't the one who brought in hologrinding or macroing, I only used it to be able to open my FS slot.
Ask how many actual musicians had to quit being musician in order to go and hunt to try to make money to either buy the holocrons or have to kill to get them. Have you just done musician all your SWG life or have you done other professions before or after?
it is not an exploit. as for the mention of the sampling resources afk macro, it still works, all you have to do is know how to do the macros right. none of the macros have been really fixed, they just added more components to being able to do it. and being they are done in a macro is main reason why it is NOT an exploit. they built it to be allowed to happend in the games computer code so they are the ones who is to complain about. an exploit is where you use a certian object to overcome the intended AI of the game code. i.e. using large harvesters to get krayt dragons stuck in order to kill them solo is an exploit. how they fix it? they made the ai of all creatures and npcs the ability to actually use their brains and go around the harvester.
I appreciate the flame, but alas, this is my opinion. if it is built in the game and they didn't forsee in the making of the game a concern with it, then folks like you have no right to complain, **edit**, moan, or gripe that we found a way to learn faster and make actual money from it.
oh, and FYI, a master musician about 4 mos ago made the first speed buff and never started to hologrind. they still use it to this day.
as now that I have done this so called beloved profession in 27 hours and master it, I am taking my leave.
as for constructive critisim, you folks should learn to that is a game only. you guys act like it is a beloved gasp of air.
I spent the entire time in the coronet cantina and never once saw any entertainers there for the Pleasure you say. once I made master, I made 600k in 6 hours easily by doing buffs at 5-7k ea. even made a macro for it, so this negates those who say the non-macro musicians make nothing. if I remember, one said he makes 500k in 1 month. I beat that in 1/4th of a day.
your musicians may be happy when they finally get rid of the hologrinders, but alas, when the 90% of all SW players leave the cantina, they will look like Keren's cantina. one lost sould sitting there with no one but NPCs to clap for them.
instead of berating the hologrinders, you should embrace them and try to show them "the ropes" to try to get them to love the profession, instead of hating it. it is folks like them who give the musician the bad name, not me. it is you guys who say s.t.f.u and leave our profession alone, like you own it. it is a game and the game is built to find any way by any legal means in game to gain and grow to be better than the others.
later
FrostBrimstone wrote:
as now that I have done this so called beloved profession in 27 hours and master it, I am taking my leave.
as for constructive critisim, you folks should learn to that is a game only. you guys act like it is a beloved gasp of air.
No, maybe it's just that we care about our profession.
I spent the entire time in the coronet cantina and never once saw any entertainers there for the Pleasure you say. once I made master, I made 600k in 6 hours easily by doing buffs at 5-7k ea. even made a macro for it, so this negates those who say the non-macro musicians make nothing. if I remember, one said he makes 500k in 1 month. I beat that in 1/4th of a day.
I've never had more than 330k in my posession. But thats fine with me, since entertainers don't need to go out and buy krayt'ed rifles and 90% composite armor. If they have a combat profession with entertainer, they can use the combat profession to make that kind of money.
your musicians may be happy when they finally get rid of the hologrinders, but alas, when the 90% of all SW players leave the cantina, they will look like Keren's cantina. one lost sould sitting there with no one but NPCs to clap for them.
But there will be PC's coming to watch. There's something called "battle fatigue" and "mind wounds". And less afk entertainers mean more people focus on watching/listening to the real entertainers, and tipping them, instead of watching the afk master dancer for 2 minutes then tipping 2k and leaving.
instead of berating the hologrinders, you should embrace them and try to show them "the ropes" to try to get them to love the profession, instead of hating it. it is folks like them who give the musician the bad name, not me. it is you guys who say s.t.f.u and leave our profession alone, like you own it. it is a game and the game is built to find any way by any legal means in game to gain and grow to be better than the others.
If people just went afk instead of continuously using macros that beg for tips, heals, and group invites, then maybe we'd be a bit more accepting of the afk'ers until the jedi revamp comes. But, people like youhave macros for buffing. If you want to get through our professionthen drop it, fine. But don't steal all our business in the process. If you're amaster weaponsmith, I'd think you could make enough money on your own without taking credits from those of us who don't afk their entire way through our profession.
later
FrostBrimstone wrote:
I spent the entire time in the coronet cantina and never once saw any entertainers there for the Pleasure you say. once I made master, I made 600k in 6 hours easily by doing buffs at 5-7k ea. even made a macro for it, so this negates those who say the non-macro musicians make nothing. if I remember, one said he makes 500k in 1 month. I beat that in 1/4th of a day.
See... here is the thing... most entertainers won't go near Coronet. I knowI won't. Why? Because it is crowded with AFK people spamming as they grind for Jedi. It provides NOTHING that a long time entertainer wants... to wit... a fun group of people to socialize with... interesting dances with other masters... fun, GOOD sounding music... you name it, Coronet doesn't have it.
And, yes, you can make a lot as an entertainer. It's just that not many people can make a lot of money on it. Where a server might support 50 master docs who buff a few hours a day andsomewhat fewer master chefs, there is no way that 20 truly active master musician/dancers can make anything like comparable money buffing. No way, none. That's OK with me, just don't pretend you know all about the profession after two days of grinding it out in the fastest possible way to get it over with.
Tackoi wrote:
If people just went afk instead of continuously using macros that beg for tips, heals, and group invites, then maybe we'd be a bit more accepting of the afk'ers until the jedi revamp comes. But, people like youhave macros for buffing. If you want to get through our professionthen drop it, fine. But don't steal all our business in the process. If you're amaster weaponsmith, I'd think you could make enough money on your own without taking credits from those of us who don't afk their entire way through our profession.