Musician Archive

Thread: Holocron: Please hire a dedicated Entertainer programmer or Entertainer dev

NewJedi
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:41 am
#1






This message is addressed to Holocron (Raph Koster), the big honcho at SOE and formerly the creative director for SWG. I'm posting a copy of this in the Correspondent Forum.


====================================================


Holo, I know you were particularly attached to the idea of entertainers. The whole gameplay style was probably your idea, if I had to guess. So to you I ask: Would you please hire a dedicated Entertainer programmer! Someone who's job is to completely revamp and improve gameplay for entertainers. Someone responsible ONLY for Entertainer, Dancer, Musician, Image Designer. (I wouldn't even include the new Acrobat, if that profession is coming, since that profession sounds as much like a combat profession to me.) I'm sure you know that we've been neglected for 11 long months now -- not even one new song or dance in that period. Sure, we'll get a handful of new songs sometime in the next few months, but that's not an acceptable rate of growth for our profession. You know that. SWG does have a talented and hard-working dev who already works on entertainer issues; this is not meant in any way as a criticism of him.He's just spread way too thin.


I know it's going to take a while to train a new programmer to get up to speed on the SWG code. Well, we entertainers have nothing if not time. We won't see our new song(s) for months, to say nothing of the Hutt Casino, and neither of those developments will amount to the structural change we really need to make our professions robust and fun to play. We need much more content. One suggestion from today's forum traffic, profession-specific quests with meaningful rewards (not just the 500 credits reported from the new auditions), would be a start. But I have in mind a broader, more fundamental rewrite of our profession. A thorough effort to combat AFK'ing, perhaps with some effort to eliminate recursive macros. A completely revamped gig-mission system. A top-to-bottom rewrite of the fragile buff code, so as to give us a more reliable buff, a better buff UI, longer buff duration, and a self-buff. A more integral role in the GCW.


In particular, I'd like to see a more flexible approach to performance, and more gameplay to the core function of performing music. Pushing a few flourish buttons periodically is only vaguely like actually making music. I know that copyright precludes our making our own new tunes. But a clever programmer could give us many more options with the tools we already have. We need more engaging core gameplay if we are to combat AFK'ing, and if we are ever to give up the addictive macro'ing that has infected our profession.


Most of all, we need an in-house person who lobbies only for US. That person would surely see that Musician is, above all, about music -- about many more songs. Not just a half-dozen new songs. Several dozen new songs, so that we have a huge repertoire, one that will allow us to pick and choose what to play for a gig. One that actually might inspire requests. Ideally, our dedicated dev would have some background in performance (music or dance), and might exercise some creative input on the creation of new songs. I for one would love that kinda job (though I ain't quitting my day job, Holo). Work on the buff code in the morning; get together with session musicians in the afternoon; hang out with the motion-capture folks the next day. That would be an attractive position for someone with coding skills and interest in music or dance.


Yes, it would cost money. But SOE has shown it's willing to devote resources to important game components when need be. Entertainer is an important game component -- just as important, I would argue, as Jedi. There are currently many more Entertainers in the game than Jedi, and that situation won't change for a while, at least as I understand the nature of the Jedi quests. Having played a Jedi a bit on TC2, I can affirm that I won't stop playing a Musician just because Jedi are more accessible now. I might play an alt Jedi, but it's not inherently more interesting to me than Musician. Well, than the potential Musician has.


Anyway, sorry this is so long. Holocron: please hire us a full-time Entertainer dev!


-- NewJedi, Musician Correspondent

Message Edited by NewJedi on 06-13-2004 08:00 AM

Landlubber
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:30 am
#2

Well, I have to say I admire your efforts NJ. I'm not too optimistic that this will actually happen - unless I'm very much mistaken, to SOE entertainers just aren't worth spending any significant amount of resources and/or money on - but we have to make that request nonetheless. If nothing else, so that we'll know exactly where we stand when that very reasonable request is either ignored or downright rejected.


Please let us know how the reactions are to this. Do the Devs post regularly on the Correspondent forum? Is Holocron himself to be seen there from time to time?





______________________________________________________
The Ti'lya Brothers: Ailar (Entertainer/Chimaera, DG Trader/Bria),
Klofi (Smuggler/Chimaera) -- Cancelled,
"You have a right to be upset. Anyone who is attached to any profession that doesn't get a lot of new content has a right to be upset." -- HanseSOE
______________________________________________________
Raph Koster on: "SWG: What went wrong?"


Warplex
Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:58 am
#3

Good job NJ! Lets hope that this is what ends up happening (Dedicated dev). But we should broaden it (after they actually give us some dev time) to having a dedicated dev for EVERY type of profession (one for CH's/rangers/scouts, one for BH/Jedi/Smuggler, one for artisans, etc. etc.) Jedi, you said what needed to be said for a long time. Keep up the good work!



-=-=-=-=-=-=Carpathia Darkrunner=-=-=-=-=-=-
Former Master Image Designer and head of the Bria Union
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Tera Kasi Master
Slayer of Buffbots, Fourm Loudmouth, Greek God
NewJedi
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:18 pm
#4



Warplex: Good idea. Actually, I fully expect my fellow Correspondents to jump in with that proposal, knowing them. They are pretty good about representing their own constituencies. But if they don't, I might add something along the lines you suggest.


Landlubber: I'm not optimistic either, but I figure it can't hurt to ask, so long as I do so tactfully. I really don't want this to be seen as a slight on the people who currently do work on entertainer; I just think they're spread WAY too thin. I hope I made that clear.


As for posts by devs, they do post pretty frequently in the Correspondent Forum, and a few more are permitted to post there than out here. They post on condition that we keep things confidential, though. SOE really wants to "speak with one voice," a common policy among large organizations. As for Holocron, he rarely stops by any of these forums. He did post for a day a couple months ago in one of the public forums; then he disappeared. I'm just hoping someone forwards the message to him. Yeah, I know, it may not happen.
bawler14
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:09 am
#5

Hey NJ, if they're even the slightest bit hesitent... have a dev drop one post about this on Ent/Dancer/Musician forums and then proceed to wtach us crash the boards en masse. We get no dev attention as it is... if this gets blown aside... it is just another lump of coal to add to our pile... we have gotten so many from the devs... but eventually someone is going to take that pile of coal and start a fire...


I know you said the devs as a majority are not allowed to post out here... but have one dev drop the question through a board moderator or whoever has permission... they'll be surpirsed by the response... assuming they even come back to check it...



                        /  \/  \                           
/| 0 0 | \

+----------------.oooO--| / | --Oooo.-------------------+
| Doasa Arsim \_-_/ Events Coordinator |
| Master Musician .oooO Oooo. Master Entertainer |
| Fifth River Cantina( ) ( ) Four Rivers, Correlia|
+---------------------\ (-----) /-------------------------+
\_) (_/

Warryyr
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:46 am
#6

I think having just one Dev post (through NewJedi as an intermediary or whatever) and solicit ideas on our professions, the response would be overwhelming. It would provide one single, concise post that could be reviewed and discussed easily. We have so many ideas all over the place here, it'd be impossible for anyone to sift through it. If they actually make the effort to solicit feedback and ideas, they could go just to there - to the Dev post - and read what we have to say/what ideas we have.


It would also be a gigantic morale boost for the entertainer players.


Much of the frustration with the Devs lies in the fact that, when we DO give them suggestions, they're shot down or disregarded, told how it would imbalance everything in the galaxy, or it ends up making them look like they don't know much about our playstyle. It's as if they have this impenetrable, unknown master plan for Entertainers - and we just don't get it. That sort of elitist attitude towards us isn't helping. We need to know what they think of us, and they need to know what we think about playing these entertainer professions. I know the correspondents are doing a great job, and I thank God profusely we have correspondents who are just as passionate about our professions as we are, but it seems like the line of communication to the Devs just isn't connecting.


We need just the *tiniest* opening to the Devs, to personally tell them some of our ideas, and interact with them occasionally.


Here's my perspective - we're all social professions, yes? Love to talk, chat, interact? Well, the current lines of communication with Devs works with correspondents as intermediaries - and well, we're all frustrated at having to try talking to the Devs through middlemen, yeah? That's not how we are as peopleAND players. Then when all of our hard work pays off, and a question is answered, we get some weird answer that is either a) due to a misunderstanding of the question or b)something that we just plain don't understand the reasoning for. Our purpose in game is to socialize,and we're all frustrated we can't just outright TALK to the Devs. I don't want the correspondents to go away, I just want the tiniest opening of direct communication with the Devs. I want to TALK and CONVERSE about our professions to them. Does that make sense?

Warplex
Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:33 pm
#7

Sad to say, seems that its only us oldguard who agree with this... but i feel i speak for almost all bria musicians when I say that jedi has outlined what we desperatly need.




-=-=-=-=-=-=Carpathia Darkrunner=-=-=-=-=-=-
Former Master Image Designer and head of the Bria Union
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Tera Kasi Master
Slayer of Buffbots, Fourm Loudmouth, Greek God
FarmerDozee
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:47 pm
#8

I too am in complete support of assigning each group of professions a Dev. I think they could probably afford it too, with all these extra accounts for buffbots....



--Dozee
Going, going, gone!
Wendelius
Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:14 am
#9

Very well and tactfully put NewJedi. I hope that Holocron will see the message and consider our plea.


Wendelius



Wendelius
aka Ka'neka, Master Entertainer and member of House Arcanum on Chilastra.
Wendel Shootingstar, party crasher and Novice Musician on Bria.
Beery
Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:34 am
#10

Recent developer responses indicate that the current bunch of developers don't even understand the first thing about what's wrong with the game as it relates to entertainers, aboutthe entertainment community or how important certain of ourissues are in terms of the overall game experience. NewJedi's idea is desperately needed, not just as a way to save entertainers, but (in light of the buffbot menace)as a way to save the game itself. And that's no exaggeration. If the buffbots continue to exist, this game will face a strong threat to its existence, as I've outlined elsewhere. Without a developer who understands the real issues we face, this game's days may be numbered before they even get the first expansion on the store shelves.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.
Vicotnik
Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:16 pm
#11


After reading the threads about the upcoming smuggler revamp, I've concluded that Entertainers, Musicians and Dancers need someone like Greenmarine to be our DEV.



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Particle effects, BAD!!! Nice, realistic graphics, GOOD!!!
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