Musician Archive

OK, so I know this has been brought up before. But I want to (hopefully) add some insight to this age-old debate.

So, those of us that are Master Musicians know about that elusive song and instrument that is ONLY available to us if we decide to spend the time filling our dance boxes and grinding ID XP. So, if I am to understand this, I cannot play Ceremonial or play my favorite Mandoviol UNLESS I have gained skill in dance and ID as well? Devs, this makes no sense. I'll apologize right now if there has already been some response from devs or if something is planned to fix this. But, as a master musician, I should be able to freakin play the mando and ceremonial without having to be skilled in ID and dance.

I've already used a ton of skill points getting to master musician and would like to pick up some scouting/marksman skills, yet really don't have enough points to do much (I am a master ID as well). I know you all are going to tell me to eat the song/instrument and drop master entertainer and stop whining about needing the points.

Well, as far as I can tell, there aren't may professions that require you to master an entire profession. Obviously, some of them do. BH, etc. But if I wanted to go up ONE branch in a profession (like musician is in entertainer), let's say Pistoleer in the Marksman profession, do I have to master the marksman profession? Nope. Do I gain/lose any pistols/skills from not mastering marksman. Overcharge shot 2. Ok, but I think you'd get a better special move from pistoleer than that.

The same can apply for others...tailoring doesnt require master artisan to gain any new clothing schematics, same with armorsmith. (At least I think so) It seems that the entertainer class (for some reason) has multiple skills (dances, songs, instruments) that are only available to the MM or MD if they use the skill pts and get master ent. I'm all for giving perks to conquering the master ent profession. Give the master ents a special instrument or dance, but make them variations of dances/instruments available to the master musicians or dancers. We know that the kloo and chindikalu horn are basically the same...just look different. So give the master ents a neat looking instrument, but one that doesnt provide a unique sound like the mando. Well my fingers hurt now so I'll stop. Just my two cents.

So basically you are saying give master entertainer an instrument that noone wants so you can drop it and have more skillpoints available ?

Lets face it.

The Mandi and Cere were a compromise to the ME because nothing was developed for them.

And Musicians suffer for this.

To compound this we lose good players due to the overhead of Appr points to maintain a performer with all the skills.

Do I like it no, is it fair no, am I dealing with it yes.

To the Original poster... your not alone with your views!

..Basically yeah...or something that has to do with entertaining as a whole... diff lightshows or healing enhancers....rather than an instrument that mast muscians cannot play b/c they didnt want to grind through dancing or ID'ing...to me master musician means you're a master of all in this game that is music and instruments...whereas master entertainer has skills in dancing, music and ID'ing. To say that someone who has limited skill/musical ability can play something that a master in that field cannot? that makes no sense. That's like having a master artisan able to craft carpenter's jeans while a master tailor cannot.

It's not fair, I want a Dewback but I don't want to be a creature handler.

It's not fair, I can only have a Dewback which is half the size of a real Dewback, Waaaa, change it, I WANT A LARGE DEWBACK but I don't want to learn another skill for it and I don't want to spend ANY skillpoints for it.

BTW, I love the Mandoviol that I worked so hard for and Ceremonial sounds nice on a Nalargon, provided you have a beat, which we havebut that's not my point, I want a real Dewback not the lesser Dewback like my Dewbacca.

Just like the stormtrooper in the movie, I want a real, big as life Dewback. I'm sure those stormtroopers had no CH skills to ride their Dewback.

It's just not fair, I'm in a entertainer guild so I need to spend points on entertaining skills, dancing, music and entertainer so I don't have points left for CH

It makes no sense...

It's just not fair, I'm in a entertainer guild so I need to spend points on entertaining skills, dancing, music and entertainer so I don't have points left for CH

Well if you did have points left for CH at the least you wouldnt need to master scouting to be one

And said Dewback wouldnt require Trapping and survival to attain

Just 2 lines.

Hmmmm tsk tsk

It's not fair, I can only have a Dewback which is half the size of a real Dewback, Waaaa, change it, I WANT A LARGE DEWBACK but I don't want to learn another skill for it and I don't want to spend ANY skillpoints for it.

Yanno as an ME I must say your lacking a bit in the delivery here....your Waaaaa's need a bit of work.

Possibly a bit of practice here.

But aside from that your Creature mount analogy was just amazing.

I know I was impressed

Heh, sorry, I just felt like that and I do want a real Dewback as a mount...

This is from the latest State of the musician profession thread:

10. There is divided opinion on Ceremonial and the Mandoviol. In my recent thread asking for everyone’s "top issue," at least 7 Musicians asked that Ceremonial and the mando be put in the Master Musician tree – but almost as many other Musicians posted in disagreement, arguing that the mando is the only thing that makes Master Entertainer worth having. I’ve had about a 50/50 split on the issue in previous polls.

It's known and if it's 50/50 then I think it simply will not change, just like how I will never ride a real red huge vicious looking Dewback unless I sacrafice something

It's known and if it's 50/50 then I think it simply will not change, just like how I will never ride a real red huge vicious looking Dewback unless I sacrafice something

Ahh yes it's "just like" that I know theres a point there somewhere,dam thing is jus so illusive

I'm gonna step this up a notch.

I do not want our professions to be scarce.

Too many of my friends have Mastered Me/MM only to move on due to the huge overhead of appr points we need to maintain a character with all instruments and all songs.

That wasted 26 points might have offered them options we presently do not have, that others do. If Cere and the Mandi were consolidated into the profession they belong in, more would hold that skill, for it's value is now increased and would require less overhead to maintain. Allowing other pursuits.

Please don't hand me how hard it is to be ME. It is not hard at all.

It's just painful

Just look at the poll another player made here for a Master roll call. We are sofew.

Because we are few,we will get less attention, because we get less attention changes for us will be slower then other classes, which customers are playing.

Sure the Cantinas are full but we all know why that is.

The ones that stay Master are few and far between.

Until this community comes up with a concerted effort to Fix ME, so it isnt jacking skills from MM, we are just going to be that class and or class'sthat gets a bone tossed to it now and then. Actually so far its more then.

Lets face it, a solid player base = dev attention.

Is this an old issue?.... dam straight.

Is there any solid activity on these boards umm no.(Also a sign)

Might as well toss this one around again

OK you can now return to the "How do I macro for my Holotainer" post.

So how would you recommend fixing this ?

If you take away the Mando and Ceremonial then 99% of existing master ents will drop it, I'm among the 1 % who sees the actual use for a nicer looking Formal and Footloose dance, but the other 99% are most likely musicians and only took it up for the song and instrument.

I've read the huge threads about this topic, solutions like making colored instrumentsor couple dancing or party balloons all sound good to me but I got this game to be exactly what I am, a full time performer, so you can see why I would be all for such changes.

Others suggested taking the effects away from the technique lines and give them to Master Ent, I think most will not agree to that, I won't mind because I will still keep Master Ent.

Then there's the suggestion for additional songs, such as Rock 2 etc, again musicians will not like it if the Master Ent can play a slightly rougher or brighter sounding version of Rock or any other song and they can't without getting Master Ent, so that also won't solve anything.

I know how rare masters are, you can look up the headcount you mention (which was done by one of my guild members, btw), especially on our server. I couldn't leave our player city last weekend wearing my MM title, I had to put it away rather quick because I kept getting tells and requests to place cantinas, move to this guild, come live with us and get your very own cantina. I think that says plenty about the scarceness of MM's on Tempest. But I don't think the reason you see so few MM's is because they can't play 1 song, a song mostly performed on weddings, that's the first time I heard it, before I took up music almost 2 months ago at a wedding, played by 2 Master Entertainers, not musicians.

As I see it, the true performer will not have a issue with this, I don't, I was able to play Ceremonial LONG before I could play Ballad, it's the other classes that take up Musician on the side that, IMO, have a problem with having to spend the additional skillpoints just for 1 song and instrument.

I actually like Master Entertainer, the ID skills are fabulous, I have more colors to choose from when altering my own make-up and I made a few Twi'lecs happy with that 3 strand hairstyle you can give them as a Master Ent and offcourse the other ID extras you can do.

But I'm not difficult to be with, I would be glad to see the Mando / Ceremonial moved to the Musician Knowledge boxes that are currently missing something IF, and that's a really big if, we get something usefull in return besides the 2 dances and the level IV ID skills...

Denisa

Welp as a full time Musician I dealt with being just an MM for about a month and multiple posts on the subject of Mandi Cere.

Then I bit the bullet stopped complaining and did Me.

For me Mandi Cere is a complete must. These arent just 2 little things, they are possibly the Best instrument in game and Cere is certainly one of the best songs.

Thats not a Carrot for ME, thats Steak and Lobster Yum food analogies

Now I'm no supreme idea person but with the game engine we have, which is fairly good I'm sure something can be done.

What I expect, someday is this may happen, but what they give to ME is soo good I'll wind up keeping it anyway

But I digress.

The game is full of shortcuts.

Our Buff is an unfinished product.

The ME is unfinished and they jacked MM to fix it.

My idea's hmm ok these are on the fly but.

1.) Conductor abilities possibly

2.) Juggling

3.) A Flute perhaps.

4.) Advanced flourished to existing songs so their skills is illustrated.

5.) A dance with flips and stuff

6.) Clothing ...class specific.

At the very least MM should be able to play Ceremonial.

Any musician that has done gigs knows we all need new songs as it is. Well this one is out there and yet the advanced class MM cant play it.

New instruments new songs will be a huge help. But we havent gotten a dam thing and this one is already out there.

Furthermore( gotta luv the furthermores)

While our community of Masters is small we perform a very important role in this game.

We help support "Player Content"

Parties,Weddings,Events,City openings, guild parties....... We work these. We support them.

Bout dam time we got more tools to do this. Rawr!!!

Customers!want more tunes, more variety.Devs get off yer butt and hook a bro up!! Dammit!!!

Well how long do wehave to wait. (taps his foot)

Compound this with that fact that I need to Master 2 professions to accomplish this, which most players do not like, restricts our player base...which in turn is a vehicle for the devs to blow us off a bit more.

Just my opinion but this comes from a dyed in the wool full time Musician.

Dont hand me the well drop this or that, because I'm here to stay

Just my opinion

Allright, first off, if you take away the Mando and Ceremonial then you MUST give Formal2 and Footloose2 to the Dancers or this discussion will just move from the Musician forum to the Dancer forum.

What I would like to see as an addition to Master Ent, or replacement for the dances and song/instrument, is a way to use the speakers. This way the Master Ent could be a great addition to ANY band, they could tune down the sound of the horns so that the other instruments can be heard by the patrons.

I have to disagree with you about the Mando, it's not the greatest instrument, IMO that would be the Nalargon because it adds a unique and complete sound to ALL the songs and the Mando does not sound very well on Jazz and Virtuoso, but that's just my opinion.

If you were to give the ME another, unique sounding, instrument like your flute (I immediately think a bamboo pan-flute) then it wouldn't solve anything, you would replace a rocky guitar thingy with a very sweet sounding flute which would bring us back to square one... I want that flute and it's supposed to be in the MM tree because the final box says can play all songs and all instruments. The same goes for those unique flourishes, every musician would want them.

I haven't done any gigs yet, unless you count the party we had last saturday in our cantina but that was allready limited by our musician's skills, me being the only master online only goes as far as my fellow musicians could go, but I agree, on a normal night I go through all my songs 2 or 3 times in a 3 hour time period and it can get repetitive or plain boring sometimes. But I do have some things coming up, I was invited to entertain at the celebration of our server's first player city and that could be fun, hehe.

But I like the idea of juggling and tumbling dances, lol. I'm not sure about clothes, I don't want to cut into the tailor profession because wasn't this discussion about needing ME to be a complete MM, imagine the anger if a tailor has to pick up ME to be able to make all clothes, I rather not go there, I like my tailors

This is allreadyin the state of the profession list and I'm sure it will be dealt with, I also don't have any plans of abandoning MM any time soon or any entertainer skill for that matter.

I agree

please allow at least Master Musicians to play mandoviol and ceremonial

leave it in Master Entertainer if you want to but put it in MM too

Hmmm Well a Master Musician is the Master of instruments and songs.

A master entertainer knows the crowd. Custom flourishes only an ME can do might be interesting.

Or the ability when grouped with an ME to have /bandflo 9,10,11,12

No ME then just the 8 flo's

The clothing I suggested was for a ME to wear solely . Tailors still craft these but only an ME can wear.

Your points about the flute are probably right

Basically whether your for or against any of this I think we are getting to the point where the community needs to Gel and start communicating that we need new stuff!!!

Everyone likes Stuff!!

I actually do a fair number of gigs and the average gig is 4 hours mebe 3.

Even with Cere we are lacking variety.

We need some Rockin tunes SW1 is great with certain instruments but we need more.

Parties dont want a ton of mellow, they want tear the house down tunes

Pausing helps, Bandflos too, but the game has matured to the level that we need more!!!

Isay enough!!! its time...where are they!!!!!