Musician Archive

I'm only worried about

7. The player owned theater is nearly useless. (I liken it to a really expensive closet with a bleacher section)

8. The player owned cantina provides no advantage to the owner. Unless you have merchant skills, you still rely on tips, and if youcan set an entry fee, it just drives people away or keeps them from tipping anyone inside.

for right now

I am tired of our profession being overlooked and mistreated by the developers. The list of problems that plague our profession only seems to grow.

I would like to start a list of all the problems that we musicians (and entertainers in general) are having. I realize that this is a rehash of everything that has been stated in other thread. I dont want any of our issues to be forgotten as new ones are created.

NewJedi, this is not an attack on you, or the way you have conducted this forum. You have done an admirable job. We need to make the devs realize that this part of the customer base is unhappy with the service that is being provided.

On to the list:

1. The Nalargon and Ommni Box must be targeted at all times to play them.

2. The Nalargon and Ommni Box can be stolen from under us as we play them.

3. The buff system does not provide enough information to the entertainer providing the buff.

4. The entertainer missions take too long to complete and do not pay enough to make taking them feasable.

5. AFK performers have a negative effect on the profession, lessening the importance of the profession.

6. The holocron performers have created a glut of entertainers affecting the ability to find healing exp and diluting our only real source of income (tips).

7. The player owned theater is nearly useless. (I liken it to a really expensive closet with a bleacher section)

8. The player owned cantina provides no advantage to the owner. Unless you have merchant skills, you still rely on tips, and if youcan set an entry fee, it just drives people away or keeps them from tipping anyone inside.

9. Too many instruments sound the same.

10. Not enough songs.

I am sure I am missing a few issues. Please keep the list going. The devs need to take action on these issues soon. I see sweeping changes made nearly every patch and release for the other professions. All I have ever seen for us is more problems. DEVS, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN US? Are we not paying customers too?

I'm only worried about

7. The player owned theater is nearly useless. (I liken it to a really expensive closet with a bleacher section)

8. The player owned cantina provides no advantage to the owner. Unless you have merchant skills, you still rely on tips, and if youcan set an entry fee, it just drives people away or keeps them from tipping anyone inside.

for right now

Thanks for your post. I agree that our profession has been neglected of late. The last big "goodie" for us was the buff, which is terrific but, as you say, poorly documented. Most of the issues on your list are also on my top-five list or State of the Profession list. The devs are well aware of these issues, and I pester the devs about them quite frequently in the Correspondent Forum. Still, it doesn't hurt for you to agitate separately; it adds credibilityto my own rants.

Some comments about particular items on your list:

1. Targeting of the nalargon and ommni is indeed annoying. Until the mount patch, it was easily worked around with the command line. (/invite x, /grin y, etc.) Now, however,mounts have made the command-line emotes unreliable, since a player recently on a mount isn't always "seen" by the emote system. Last night I was playing the nala, and Ikept grinning at someone's "Clothes" rather than at the person. I've started a thread on this in the Correspondent forum, and I've bumped other Correspondents' complaints about the same issue, but so far no response.

2. You don't literally mean that the nala or ommni are "stolen", do you? Sure, someone can move them, but they can't take them from inventory. I had one person do this to me maybe two weeks ago, in a public cantina of course. It almost never happens to me otherwise. To me, this is a minor issue -- far less important than the need for new songs, better gig missions, more at-the-keyboard play, or the command-line emote issue.

3. I agree, the buff system needs more feedback, and again I've raised this with the devs. But they insist it's not a simple thing to code -- not nearly as simple as the doctor buff. They do intend to give us a fix, but they can't promise anything quick. In the meantime, I refer buffers to my FAQ in this forum. Personally, I find the buff works quite well if you communicate clearly with the buffee.

4. Absolutely agreed; entertainment gig missions need love. The devs are interested in making them more interactive, though -- not just in increasing the money payout. They've asked me to solicit suggestions on how to improve them. One possibility is to tie the reward to the number of /listeners you get, or the amount of healing you do. Another is to give you an NPC who gives you requests. I've stickie'd a thread inviting suggestions here, and there a number of good ideas in it; I've drawn the devs' attention to it.

5. Same comment about AFK: the devs have encouraged me to seek input on constructive suggestions on how to encourage ATK play. Some ideas overlap with improvements to gig missions -- sampling-style popup boxes, that sort of thing. Again, I've sticked a thread inviting constructive suggestions, and while I've gotten a lot of the "AFK wars" in that thread, I've also gotten some positive suggestions forimprovements. I've tried to summarize some of the best suggestions from that thread for the devs.

6. I don't see a glut of Musicians on my server, Chilastra -- and certainly not on Test Center. In fact, one common complaint I get as Correspondent is that there aren't enough Musicians --in particular, not enough that areproviding our buff. (In my thread asking for feedback on our buff, in SWG Discussion, this was perhaps the most common complaint, along with the length of time the buff takes.)

7. The player theater is a big disappointment, I agree. I and other Correspondents have conveyed this to the devs.I don't know why they chose the "open-air" style; it raises the object-placement issues that plague the ommni and nala, and it's architecturally unsatisfying. It's too bad, because NPC theaters are so cool by comparison. It may betoo late to revisit that design decision, but at least the thing needs to work. Right now it doesn't, except backstage.

8. I disagree about the player cantina. It's a huge perk. The owner can decorate it to his or her taste, can exercise complete control over who gets in or out, can place it where she likes, can name it, can place it on the world map with her name of choice, and can enjoy its benefits as a storage facility.It also looks great. Watch a newb walk inside and they usually say something like "wow." I think it's arguably the best player-city building in the game. In my city, it's our social center.

9. Agree about instruments sounding the same. When I was a young Musician, I was profoundly disappointed that our six horns are really only 2. Unfortunately, the initial round of songs are mixed, mastered, and done. I would much rather see the devs spend precious studio time on developing new songs instead of adding a new horn track to Rock or Star Wars 3. My hope is that these new songs will make better use of the different instruments, or add new ones. Holocron *did* promise us new instruments.

10. New songs are in production; I just don't know when we'll see them, and I can't promise it will be anytime soon. If there's one thing I'd like to see before I step down as Correspondent, it's a batch of new songs. "New songs" has been the top issue, or in the top two issues, in the entire time I've been Correspondent; it's still the most frequently cited complaint today.For me personally, it's the number one issue. The music is why I like being a Musician. The songs make the profession.

*The player cantina*

The stage is great, the bar is ok, but where's the back room?
I was looking at NPC cantinas before cities went live, and got everything planned out as far as furniture and usefull areas, then the PC Cantina comes out and is half the size, with no back room for storage, or private parties, or whatever.
Even PC Med Centers have a seperate back room.

Thanks for the reply NewJedi. The only thing I would like to debate is the player owned cantina issue.

8. I disagree about the player cantina. It's a huge perk. The owner can decorate it to his or her taste, can exercise complete control over who gets in or out, can place it where she likes, can name it, can place it on the world map with her name of choice, and can enjoy its benefits as a storage facility.It also looks great. Watch a newb walk inside and they usually say something like "wow." I think it's arguably the best player-city building in the game. In my city, it's our social center.

While the player owned cantinas are very nice, I love mine and the ones my guild has established, I dont see any advantage to the owner. There is a huge financial expenditure to those who take on a cantina, and for those who choose to RP an entertainer, the cost can be prohibitive. I have nearly 100K wrapped up into mine. While being able to name and decorate the cantina is nice, it comes with ownership and is not a perk. As a storage facility, it is a failure. There is no back room. In order to keep the establishment looking nice, you can not use it for personal storge at all. No one wants to see a cantina with food containers laying all over the place. I do love the compliments from people who see the cantina for the 1st time too, but once again, that is part of ownership and not a perk.

I propose that the cantina owner should get a "bartender" vendor along with the purchase of the cantina. Right now, I do not have the ability to set up a vendor and had to bring in outside help. The ability for a master musician to conduct organized commerce in his/her establishment would truly be a perk. This holds especially true for those who can not set up vendors.

Once again, thanks for your reply! I hope that this can be constructive!

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NewJedi wrote:

7. The player theater is a big disappointment, I agree. I and other Correspondents have conveyed this to the devs.I don't know why they chose the "open-air" style; it raises the object-placement issues that plague the ommni and nala, and it's architecturally unsatisfying. It's too bad, because NPC theaters are so cool by comparison. It may betoo late to revisit that design decision, but at least the thing needs to work. Right now it doesn't, except backstage.

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One advantage of this design is control of the stage and backstage. People cannot get on stage without being on the permissions list for the theater. That part I really think is cleverly designed with the existing system and was a very big problem with the NPC theaters.

The second advantage is very close to us musicians, in particular. In an NPC theater, you cannot be beyond thefirst or second row of seats in the audience before being out of range of a musician playing on stage. Besides that, if you have viewing angle set to anything but all the way down, it is very hard to see the people on stage past the second row of seats. In fact, in most of the NPC theater player events I've been to, people have crowded right up to the stage or first row of seats anyway. The seats are ridiculously big and spaced far apart for only allowing one person to sit in them.

For these reasons, I prefer the up close and personal arrangement of the player theater. Every seat is an excellent one and there are no chairs to get in the way.

I'd just like to see the bugs fixed with item placement in the outdoor setting on structures (PA halls and large houses, included), get /eject fixed, and maybe make the stage deeper so that dances are possible.

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NewJedi wrote:

Some comments about particular items on your list:

3. I agree, the buff system needs more feedback, and again I've raised this with the devs. But they insist it's not a simple thing to code -- not nearly as simple as the doctor buff. They do intend to give us a fix, but they can't promise anything quick. In the meantime, I refer buffers to my FAQ in this forum. Personally, I find the buff works quite well if you communicate clearly with the buffee.

Are the buffs 2 hours long yet? or still short durration, which I have yet to confirm for sure.. and Why can't I target myself and buff.. This should NOT be a coding problem..

4. Absolutely agreed; entertainment gig missions need love. The devs are interested in making them more interactive, though -- not just in increasing the money payout. They've asked me to solicit suggestions on how to improve them. One possibility is to tie the reward to the number of /listeners you get, or the amount of healing you do. Another is to give you an NPC who gives you requests. I've stickie'd a thread inviting suggestions here, and there a number of good ideas in it; I've drawn the devs' attention to it.

I do not agree with tieing in reward or gigs to the number of listeners or healing exp.. This will only promote MORE musicians to cluster in a few cities then to travel in the galaxy and be seen by all.. A better system would be to rewards musicians in accordance to difficulty of planet level, and size.. Make it so that remote areas and traveling get reward more then just showing up in Theed's hub..

5. Same comment about AFK: the devs have encouraged me to seek input on constructive suggestions on how to encourage ATK play. Some ideas overlap with improvements to gig missions -- sampling-style popup boxes, that sort of thing. Again, I've sticked a thread inviting constructive suggestions, and while I've gotten a lot of the "AFK wars" in that thread, I've also gotten some positive suggestions forimprovements. I've tried to summarize some of the best suggestions from that thread for the devs.

Popup boxes is the best way to go.. However, this does hurt some cities and guilds.. Since we are so few in numbers, many groups have set up "Mule Toons" to simply play AFK 24/7 to help their fellow members or residence.. I see no problem with this, especially in remote areas of the galaxy.. Best Popup I can think of is ONE that doesn't keep you from playing, but one that ask you if you wish to keep recieving experience, or not.. Default being "no exp".. This way those AFK providing a service are NOT hindered, but those macro griding for exp are out of luck..

6. I don't see a glut of Musicians on my server, Chilastra -- and certainly not on Test Center. In fact, one common complaint I get as Correspondent is that there aren't enough Musicians --in particular, not enough that areproviding our buff. (In my thread asking for feedback on our buff, in SWG Discussion, this was perhaps the most common complaint, along with the length of time the buff takes.)

7. The player theater is a big disappointment, I agree. I and other Correspondents have conveyed this to the devs.I don't know why they chose the "open-air" style; it raises the object-placement issues that plague the ommni and nala, and it's architecturally unsatisfying. It's too bad, because NPC theaters are so cool by comparison. It may betoo late to revisit that design decision, but at least the thing needs to work. Right now it doesn't, except backstage.

This was a total flop that I can't believe even got OFF the drawing board.. This just goes to show exactly where elite entertainers place on the Dev's priority list.. Not only are you totally denied the ability to decorate, but MORE importantly, you are unable to heal at all.. Since it's classified as "outdoor" NO mind or BF healing can be done.. (shocked) The simple solution to this for now is:. Break open the schematic code in the game and immediately transform all outdoor theaters to indoor theaters.. Put carpet down and a canopy over the audience area and problem is solved

9. Agree about instruments sounding the same. When I was a young Musician, I was profoundly disappointed that our six horns are really only 2. Unfortunately, the initial round of songs are mixed, mastered, and done. I would much rather see the devs spend precious studio time on developing new songs instead of adding a new horn track to Rock or Star Wars 3. My hope is that these new songs will make better use of the different instruments, or add new ones. Holocron *did* promise us new instruments.

Agreed.. 6 horns but only 2 sounds..

10. New songs are in production; I just don't know when we'll see them, and I can't promise it will be anytime soon. If there's one thing I'd like to see before I step down as Correspondent, it's a batch of new songs. "New songs" has been the top issue, or in the top two issues, in the entire time I've been Correspondent; it's still the most frequently cited complaint today.For me personally, it's the number one issue. The music is why I like being a Musician. The songs make the profession.

Agreed.. BTW.. Where is the country song?

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cronus00 wrote:

Where is the country song?

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Pendarin: Yes, I do see some merit in the theater design. If the buffs and heals worked outside, I'd feel better about it. But I still miss the spacious, colorful interior of the NPC theaters. And I like real seats -- not sloped platforms. But then I'm the kind of guy who goes to Tanglewood and sits in the seats, not on the lawn.

Cronus: Thanks for your replies. Some responses:

1. You ask whether buffs are two hours long: in my experience, the targeted buff can last longer than two hours; I've found the passive buff doesn't last as long.

2. Thanks for your comments on tieing Entertainer missions to heal XP or listeners. I'm not as concerned about people tending to gather in one cantina as opposed to another; I kinda like seeing a big bustling Coronet cantina. And mostly I want to provide incentives for people to actually /listen to us. Still, I like your alternate suggestion (planet difficulty), and I'll pass it on to the devs.

3. Yes, others have suggestingrequiring someone to answerpopups in order to get XP.I could live with that. But, as you point out, many Musicians are AFK even when they're not trying for XP; they're heal or buff bots. Myimpression is that the devs would like to encourage all Musicians to be at the keyboard, not just aspiring Musicians. One separate issue is whether popups really work.My understanding is that some people (not me) have found ways to circumvent the sampling popups.

4. It's not just country that's missing. How about R&B, soul, bluegrass, electronic music,and vocals? Actually, most of all I'd like more Star Warsy tunes. But at this point I'd take almost any batch of new songs.