Musician Archive
Thread: Music buffs are extremely condescending
Page 1 of 1
Mariki
Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:21 pm
#1
I read this is the last publish:
Entertainer / Dancer / Musician: The minimum time required to watch an Entertainer before having a mind buff applied has been reduced from 2 minutes to 1 minute. We have also increased Entertainer / Dancer / Musician wound healing - - It now takes half as long to apply an Entertainer mind buff.
The fact is this is totally false and misleading as our buffs are not time based at all, they are flo based. The band was all together last night and we were talking about doing some shows at some of the outposts. The idea that some had buffbots and perhaps a life band would be a nice change was quickly dissolved as we tested this "new system". Not only do you have to compete with buffbots but now you have to sound like them too, sprewing out complete overflowed trash in order to have a fast buff. Lets face it, those combat types want those fast buffs and buffbots don't give any care as to how they sound. This is no longer entertaining. These fast buffs are just as bad to real entertainers as the buffbots are, infact they cater specifically to the buffbots. And its no wonder as buffbots increase, live entertainers decrease? This was not a live entertainer friendly patch, quite the opposite. Its stuff like this that make me sorry entertainer buffs were even implimented at all. They have quite literially sucked the life out of entertaining.
Message Edited by Mariki on 03-09-2005 11:27 AM
OrionsByte
Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:35 pm
#2
The 2-minute timer was put there to make sure that people had to listen/watch an musician/dancer at least that long to get their buff. That means that even if a buffbot could do the number of flourishes required in 30 seconds, you'd have to listen to it for at least 2 minutes.
Why they reduced that I don't know, but I agree that it wasn't very friendly to ATK musicians who actually like to sound good. I don't take much time out of my day to do buffing services for just that reason, and on the occasion that people request my presence to do that, I usually try to at least make it entertaining. I find I even get better tips that way.
Warryyr
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:08 pm
#3
Yeah, although it kinda sucks and hampers the act of really paying attention to an Entertainer at all, it's better than that 30-second speedbuffing thing. Did you ever do that?
It was like the first measure of the song, then the very first note repeateded endlessly for about 30 to 45 seconds. That nowhere near resembled a song, haha.
Although we're limited in performance by this change, I find the larger apparent scheme of things in these changes to be more disturbing. Basically, it has a VERY strong overtone of just....seriously diminishing ourposition and function inthis game.
Cantinas used to be a place to hang out, or relax, or talk to folks. Now it's the freakin' McDonald's drive thru - get in, get what you want, go go go go go....why is this taking so long just gimme gimme gimme.
If McDonald's could build McBots to serve their drive thrus 24/7, I GUARANTEE it would look just like the NPC cantinas do now. 24 hours per day, those bots would just blather on "want fries with that? Supersize for $1? Want cheese on that? Would like to try an icey cold Dr. Pepper? Please drive around to the 2nd window, please drive around to the 2nd window. Give me your money and I'll give you your change! Give me your money and I'll give you your change!"
Message Edited by Warryyr on 03-09-2005 04:11 PM
Mariki
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:34 pm
#4
Eaca wrote:
You don't need to spam overflowed trash, you can actually put together nice dance routines and still buff fast, timing is everything.
First off you have to know how long your flourishes take to complete. This is important for making a good fast buff dance that's not "overflo'ed". Some exotic and other high level dances take 20-30 seconds to complete a full flourish. During this time you can spam ANY flourish you want and it will never be seen. So if flourish 1 takes 25 seconds to complete, do the following:
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 10
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 10
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 6
/flo 3 (assuming you want to do flourish 3 next)
This will satisfy your flourish number requirement without affecting the look of the dance. Notice there's only 4 flo 1's at the end before the flo 3, that's because 5 is the max you can "spam" in a 10 second period without "capping", So only do 4 for the last one so your next flourish will count.
Oops, the above is for dance, forgot what forum I was in. For music just spam the flourishes to make whatever song you have back to back like tiaga said, the server will queue god knows how many flourishes for you (I did a bunch of spamming once, stopped sending flourish commands, and still performed the queued flourishes for a LONG time)
Message Edited by Eaca on 03-09-2005 01:01 PM
So if I am understanding this correctly, since dancers flos don't stack, you can spam them in between the actual seen flos and they count.
Musicians on the other hand could not give a "full" buff in less then 75 flos x 4 seconds each, or 5 actual minutes?
So what is up with this one minute timer? It means nothing it seems..
And why doesn't having more then one musician in a group such as in a band make a difference?
Message Edited by Mariki on 03-09-2005 01:36 PM
Eaca
Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:38 pm
#5
No musicians can still buff in less than 2 minutes just like dancers, the flourishes count toward the buff timer the instant the server recieves them. However with musicians the server keeps track of overflourishes and plays them back to back, even after you stop sending new flourishes.
Tiaga
Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:16 pm
#6
Eaca wrote:No musicians can still buff in less than 2 minutes just like dancers, the flourishes count toward the buff timer the instant the server recieves them. However with musicians the server keeps track of overflourishes and plays them back to back, even after you stop sending new flourishes.
If you want to get technical, the client tracks them. The server sees dancer and musician flourishes the same - it gets them from the entertainer and sents them to everyone else. (Okay not entirely true.. Musician flourishes only get sent to everyone who is listening.) So from the mechanics standpoint, all that matters is when you do the flourish command, not when it actually occurs.
How the client deals with multiple flourishes is a different matter. For music, it will remember all the flourishes that have been sent and play them in order. But it still plays them in order. So if you have music that does 2-4-5-5-2-7-6-2-5-5-4-2-7-6, instead of doing 2 (pause 4) 4 (pause 4) 5 (pause 4) 5 (pause 4) 2 (pause 4) 7 (pause 4) 6 (pause 4) 2 .... etc.. You would do 24552 (pause 10) 76255 (pause 10) 4276. Net result is it comes out sounding the same. The only thing you lose is the base music, and the spontinaety of being able to change flourishes in the middle.
For dance, the clients will just ignore the flourish if you are already doing a flourish. So as Eaca suggests, you can just time the flourishes to get the effect you want. (Which is what I do.)
Tiaga
Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:55 am
#7
While I agree the mechanic of buffing isn't very friendly to performances...
I'm not sure why overflourishing has to sound like trash. You still have the same flourishes. You still play them start to end before going onto the next one. It sounds exactly the same as if you did the same flourishes only as needed. (As needed being flourish roughly every 4/5 seconds.)
I'm not sure why overflourishing has to sound like trash. You still have the same flourishes. You still play them start to end before going onto the next one. It sounds exactly the same as if you did the same flourishes only as needed. (As needed being flourish roughly every 4/5 seconds.)
Eaca
Thu Mar 10, 2005 1:59 am
#8
You don't need to spam overflowed trash, you can actually put together nice dance routines and still buff fast, timing is everything.
First off you have to know how long your flourishes take to complete. This is important for making a good fast buff dance that's not "overflo'ed". Some exotic and other high level dances take 20-30 seconds to complete a full flourish. During this time you can spam ANY flourish you want and it will never be seen. So if flourish 1 takes 25 seconds to complete, do the following:
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 10
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 10
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/flo 1
/pause 6
/flo 3 (assuming you want to do flourish 3 next)
This will satisfy your flourish number requirement without affecting the look of the dance. Notice there's only 4 flo 1's at the end before the flo 3, that's because 5 is the max you can "spam" in a 10 second period without "capping", So only do 4 for the last one so your next flourish will count.
Oops, the above is for dance, forgot what forum I was in. For music just spam the flourishes to make whatever song you have back to back like tiaga said, the server will queue god knows how many flourishes for you (I did a bunch of spamming once, stopped sending flourish commands, and still performed the queued flourishes for a LONG time)
Message Edited by Eaca on 03-09-2005 01:01 PM
Mariki
Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:47 am
#9
I suppose the biggest problem is that Kettmoor has a large RP population and a lot of entertainers who RP and most everything in this on line RPG in not RP friendly. There is a large population that see this as a first person shooter that just happens to be on line. You see this all the time with all the combat people who prefer a Bot cause they don't have to talk to them. The Devs really need to remember that this is a RPG. Trying to be all things to all people convolutes everyone.
LecheHombre
Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:07 am
#10
To play devil's advocate, I don't see how the devs altering the buff timer really affects our ability to RP at all. I've had a master musician character for around 6 months now. I play for my friends, buff hunting groups, and occasionally man a cantina for a while.
If/when I am at a public cantina (Dantooine Mining Outpost, for example), there is generally one or two buffbots doing their thing right next to me. I pull out a droid that accompanies my mandoviol with a bandfill and displays fun effects. I write macros that loop a sequence of flourishes that I like, and write silly converted lyric songs to go with the instument/song I am playing. For example, I've got Johnny Cash "Ghost Riders" converted to "Ghost Rancors" going with my mando on western, or "I Shot the Stormtrooper" going with the steel drum sound of the Nalargon on several songs.
When people come into the cantina, they see that they have a couple options. They can listen to the buffbots playing the same single flourish over and over usually on a bandfill, wading through the /join macros, begging for invites, etc. Or, they can listen to me and actually perhaps be mildly entertained for a while. To be honest, it makes very little difference to me. It is more fun when you have fun, short (sometimes not so short) conversations with people, but if someone comes in and completely ignores me and heads straight for the buffbot, I can always "roleplay" that they are an introverted stranger that likes to sit in the dark corner. If someone ignores me or acts like a jackass, I'll not invite them to and/or kick them out of the group, and /addignore them.
Sometimes everybody listens to me, sometimes everybody ignores me, usually somewhere inbetween. If I'm having fun, I'll keep playing for a while, if not I'll head somewhere else and do something else. If they made the buff timer 30 minutes, I'd keep doing the same thing, likewise if they made it instantaneous.
If/when I am at a public cantina (Dantooine Mining Outpost, for example), there is generally one or two buffbots doing their thing right next to me. I pull out a droid that accompanies my mandoviol with a bandfill and displays fun effects. I write macros that loop a sequence of flourishes that I like, and write silly converted lyric songs to go with the instument/song I am playing. For example, I've got Johnny Cash "Ghost Riders" converted to "Ghost Rancors" going with my mando on western, or "I Shot the Stormtrooper" going with the steel drum sound of the Nalargon on several songs.
When people come into the cantina, they see that they have a couple options. They can listen to the buffbots playing the same single flourish over and over usually on a bandfill, wading through the /join macros, begging for invites, etc. Or, they can listen to me and actually perhaps be mildly entertained for a while. To be honest, it makes very little difference to me. It is more fun when you have fun, short (sometimes not so short) conversations with people, but if someone comes in and completely ignores me and heads straight for the buffbot, I can always "roleplay" that they are an introverted stranger that likes to sit in the dark corner. If someone ignores me or acts like a jackass, I'll not invite them to and/or kick them out of the group, and /addignore them.
Sometimes everybody listens to me, sometimes everybody ignores me, usually somewhere inbetween. If I'm having fun, I'll keep playing for a while, if not I'll head somewhere else and do something else. If they made the buff timer 30 minutes, I'd keep doing the same thing, likewise if they made it instantaneous.
Page 1 of 1