Musician Archive

Well here are two seldom talked about problems with musicians

Bandflourishes

SOE made it so only the person who issues the comand to bandflourish gets exp's

they did this so that people dont have one person do them all and the rest go watch TV and get exp's

well I can understand doing this but the problem is that without bandflourishes bands songs sound jumbled and bad and if we do them only one person gets exps AND we can set up macros so we can go watch TV and play anyway

so why try to punish people in a way that can easly be defeated adn hurts honest people trying to roleplay and make the game more fun for all ???

secondly playing diffrent instruments

2 of us were in a group and trying to play the folk song

well we cant do bandflourishes (see above) so we were each doing our own flourishes and it sounds bad

diffrent notes and flourishes going off at diffrent times yuck

so one of us switches so 1 pereson plays the kloo and the other plays the fanfar

this sounds tons better but now the person playing the fanfar is getting totaly cheated becouse he dosnt get nearly the same exp's as he would if he played the kloo!!!

so again to sound better and roleplay and make things more entertaining we take another loss

songs

novice entertainer has 5 songs

of these 5 songs the 2 are so overplayed by every entertainer that people are sick of listening to them

one song starwars 3 totaly stinks and people just dont want to hear it

so we are left with rock and folk 2 songs to play how long can you play the saem two songs before people cant take it

sure flourishes make them diffrent but not enough

please add more songs or let us play notes aned make and trade adn sell our own songs

this would add a lot to the game more songs more entertainment more economy selling songs!!!

crafters get many many diffrent items to make at every level

a novice weaponsmith can make a bunch of diffrent weapons rifle pistol carbine swords axes stafs knives ect... ad diffrent qualitys too

gesh 5 songs at novice muscian!!!???

money

ok everyone knows it totaly stinks to perform to make money

people dont tip or tip crap we spend hours playing adn we make little or no money

while a fighter can take 2 missions to kill dwarf nunan and easly kill them make 3k and come back get mind healed (like dwarf nunan could hit them or get near them) for free and pay a doctor 500 credits to hal the wounds they wont get anyway

a surveyer can get 32 exp's from digging up ore (muscians get about 15) and the surveyer gets 7 - 10 of a resourse thats value is from 2 - 4 credits each

he louses nothing but time just liek the muscian he can do it in the safty of town and at the exact same time he is making items with the ore and making even more money and skill!!

now the players are scream ing dont force us to pay well ok thats fine

the solution is this

at the door to every canteena place a NPC manager promoter or owner of the canteena

a musician takes a gig mission from him (dont tell me there are gig missions they are random junk missions that pay crap and help no oine)

the entertainer takes on one that is say play in that canteena for 30 minutes total in the next 5 hours

and get 1k credits ( baise it on the entertainers skills and 1 k for 30 min is a lot less than a fighter can make)

so she goes in and plays

players go in (maby the npc charges them a couver charge) and they listen and get healed

they can even tip more if they liek or not

the fighters are happy as they are getting healed

the muscians are happy as they are getting exps and some money win win win!!

this is the way it works in real life (without the healing) the owner pays a band to play on X day for X time

the band plays and people ether pay a couver charge to get in or buy drinks or have to buy a number of drinks minum

would work fine in game too

give us the tools to amke this a great game adn we will love it and keep playing and you will lvoe it and keep making money

and we both are happy symbiosis

Faydra Kohan

PS: dont tell me this has been posted before DEv ahvent anwserd before and some things said ehre ahve never been said before!

since when are these problems seldom discussed?
Go look at the list of all my posts, half of them are on threads discussing new songs, tips, bandflourish exp, new instruments, missions, making money, etc.

This is all i've been discussing for the last two weeks. the rest of my time with this game i'm trying to set up a little band and make some fun for myself, trade macros for songs and lyrics, and generally make contacts so that doing things in the game isn't so expensive.

A little punctuation will go a long way toward making your thoughts more comprehensible.

No, there has not been much Developer commentary on this profession. I don't think we're alone on that one though...

I agree that more songs would be great. I have a feeling that we are not going to get them though. The best we can probably hope for is a new set of samples/sounds to help distinguish the instruments. There HAS been commentary on that, here's hoping it comes true.

It sounds to me like you REALLY want to play at a player owned establishment. Player buildings can charge cover charges. Players who own buildings could even commision you to play a set amount of time for x amount of money. Ask around, maybe you'll find what you're looking for. I don't honestly believe they will implement such a process for public buildings.

Let's face it, Entertainer is not the greatest way to make money in this game. I don't care, I am not hurting from it. I do pretty well from tips usually. I don't even ask for them and I still do OK. If I really want a lot of money for something, I run deliveries. It works perfect for me, and it breaks up the monotony. I truly enjoy leaving the cantina and running around, going from city to city, even to other planets if I please.

As far as the flourish thing, if you're really having that much trouble making things sound good, either you're WAY to picky, or not trying very hard. Try communicationg with your group. Sure, some flourishes don't sound that good when played against a different flourish. So what? any given flourish lasts like 5 seconds.... keep going. Real music is made this way.... mistakes happen you try and learn and improve.

I think they have done a masterful job of taking a very difficult task (allowing multiple random people to feel like they are playing 'in a band') and making it a reality. Sometimes I'm amazed at how GOOD it sounds. Granted, there are those moments when it doesn't always.... but life isn't perfect now is it?

Discussed already or not, this is a good post with some really good ideas. I hope the Devs look into making some of the changes you've recommended.

Last night I played for a good three hours and I got a total of one tip. I don't go AFK either, I talk to the customers and tell jokes while I play. Sure I wasn't playing at peak times and I'm sure my jokes aren't the greatest, but one tip? Come on I healed a bunch of people. It would be nice to at least make a little money to spend on new clothes and stuff without doing delivery missions.

And the Gigs are terrible, too much traveling for such a small reward and I'm never really sure where to get the gig missions anyway. It would be nice if every cantina had a mission giver. The regular mission terminals are easy to find, why do the gigs need to be hidden away?

Also, as was mentioned the songs sound terrible when everyone is playing different flourishes, and more people go AFK then I can keep track of anyway so why not just let band flourishes reward XP to the whole band? I really don't care if people are getting free XP while AFK. They do it anyway! Our music will sound better, and I for one could spend more time telling jokes, lol.

Anyway great ideas, and the more we discuss them the better!

i agree some good ideas here but you are also in charge of your own destiny... the famous fat wookie band is leaving public cantinas for good over time and we are migrating our customers as well if more and more entertainers do the same we can do just this... as long as the cantina's are full the customers will go there for free and the ones that tip always will. as for the songs well... get to master and it wont be nearly as much of a problem... xp won't matter and geez its only like a month of grinding to get master so don't worry about it... on my server we got 6 master musicians and 4 master entertainers and yet we always made songs... try having each member write small bandflourish numbers then rotating... that way every1 wins that is what we did. as for adding more songs i agree it is a very good suggestion... i hope they do it the others i like too but seem unlikely

At some point they are going to have to add songs and differnetinstrument sounds.I mean, the game is not even a month old and some songs are wearing thin. In another month, all the other songs will as well. With the given system, you can only spice it up so much, but it is the same thing over and over.

That being said, the game is only a month old. Can't expect such a big additional feature in only a month. So, it will just be a matter of time.

As for tips and payment, personal cantinas are going to be your best bet if you don't wish to do combat. I picked up combat skills in order to go out and play with my friends and be able to make a little money fast. At expert unarmed I can get 2k per mission. It takes 15 mins to do two of those. That is 4k, much more than I get in tips for say....10 hours of playing music. I often find people out there in the boonies and they recognize me from the cantina. I think that gives thecombat types more respect for an entertainer if they see you out there doing battle. Not sure if it helps my tips though.

Its been said that you don't ever need to fight in this game. And its true. But they never said that it would be easy for you if you didn't. Unfortunately the game is fueled by the combantants. So, it is going to be easier for them to get xp and money. Every other profession is geared to service the combat professions mostly.

I do have combat skills and I do go out a do mission

you haev to if your an entertainer

in healing music skills alone I haev spent 19,000 credits!

and I dont benifit by this money the listeners do and they repay this with 10 credit tips if that!

it wouldnt be hard for the DEV to plae an NPC permoter at the front of every canteena and allow entertainers to take missions to play IN THAT CANTEENA

to be on par with fighters who can take destroy missions to kill nunans make the gig missions 30 min and pay between 500 and 2,000 baised on your skill level

play inside for 30 min and you get paid

and the listeners get healed!

and like in the real world the promoter or owner charge a couver charge for people to get in

this is fair and easy to program

give the entire band exp's for the band flourishes that is easy to program and the people who afk and let the other people do the work while they watch tv can still make macros so it dosnt stop anything to take away band flourish exp's

dont give us less exp's for playing diffrent instruments th si will allow us to play with 2 or 3 or whatever people and sound better wihtout losuing a gaggle of exp's

dont give us less exp's for playing lower songs there is no point to this we dont fail a song it dosnt take less time materials or anything to play lesser songs we do so to spice up the game and be able to play wiht lesser entertainers so DONT SLAP US FOR IT!

yes it would take time and money for SOE to make more songs and I know that would take time but the above items can be done super easly and would help us a loty!

later add more songs more flourishes and please making our own songs note by note!

I might get a great tip if I can make and play great songs (I want to play tull and enya )

oh and last request would be to change the tree so muscians dont need to do peoples hair or dance to get a song and the only string insturment!

and people who read this please bump it !

here is what I don't underestand...

The game already has a way to tell if you're AFK. Why not just stop rewarding XP if a person doesn't touch their keyboard enough to get marked AFK? Not only could we go back to getting XP for band flourishes, but it would stop the AFK macros as well. Problem solved.

I love the idea of player made gigs! Wish they weren't so hard to come by.

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Spymaster2 wrote:

here is what I don't underestand...

The game already has a way to tell if you're AFK. Why not just stop rewarding XP if a person doesn't touch their keyboard enough to get marked AFK? Not only could we go back to getting XP for band flourishes, but it would stop the AFK macros as well. Problem solved.

I love the idea of player made gigs! Wish they weren't so hard to come by.

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people are using outside macros to keep themselves from having AFK over their head. But I don't mind AFK people getting xp for band flourishes. Better yet, just kick the AFK person.

You make some good points, Faydra, but it is unlikely that they will ever charge people for entering the cantina. I mean, the cantina is a free place. Its not a night club, it is equivalent to a bar.

I'm doubtful they will ever make it that easy to grab a gig mission as well. All missions require some amount of travel. For us to just stay in one place and grab gig missions all day would be to easy, no matter the payment.

The DEV's are always stating that this is the customers game and that we need to take what they give us and run with it. It is their intention that we start player cities, build our own entertainment venue's and so on. They want us to not rely on the built in structures once we can get out on our own.

An example of this is the bazaar terminals. Limiting the max you can charge for an item to 3k forces people to create structures and put in vendors.

I'm just as dissapointed as you are with what people tip. I have gathered about 200k in just a few days doing missions. If I was a true combat type, I'd think I could do better. What we get tipped is nothing.

It might bea little overwhelming for people to come into the cantina and see a lot of entertainers. They may think they need to tip them all, thus reducing the amount they tip. When I play in Kadaara there is usually only 1 other entertainer and my tips are on average 300. But if I play on Theed with many entertainers the average is 50 and I see a lot of 10 to 30 as well. Also, going around and tipping every person in a large group can take time. There needs to be a /tip group. People might be more inclined to use that and plug in a higher number to be split between all the entertainers. But then that brings in other problems, like what if the person you targeted was in a group by themselves and not in the main entertainer group and you just tipped that person 5k.

Actually, when I think about it, Faydra, your idea would best fit at the theatre. One would expect to pay an admission fee to watch what is going on in there.

I think you will discover that a lot of your problems with musician are cleared up once you get into the higher end of the music tree. To name a few:

Once you master, not getting xp for bandflourish is irrelevant. Yes, playing two instruments of the same type on one song sounds bad if you are flourishing differently (this is more true if you are the only 2 musicians playing however, and not as true when you have a full band). So, either use different instruments (the xp loss isn't that bad), play a CD and turn off the music, or go to a cantina with a complete band.

Our band, which contains at least 3 master musicians and a few master ents plays rock all the time. It works great with a full band (when I say "full band" I mean a drum/bass instrument, nalargon, both horns and a mandoviol) and even with 10 people playing it sounds nice. When you are building your skill level in any of the professions, you are going to get sick of the limited skills you have... that won't change... but if you play the songs you have with higher level musicians I think you'll like them a lot more.

Now I think everyone would love to see more songs, I mean who's going to complain about that idea? But I am not near sick of every song I have yet... heck, like I said, I still have fun playing rock. If you are still in novice ent you don't even have all the songs yet, so if you want more just keep playing the old ones and you will get more. If they add new songs anywhere I would imagine they would start at the top and work their way down, so...

Money, a.k.a. tips. This is definitely something that increases for most musicians with skill. Playing in the same cantina on a regular basis and getting to know the regulars helps a lot too. I haven't had to do a mission in a week, and I've bought several custom tailored outfits, a suit of armor, and some vibroknuckles, and I make tips almost as fast as I spend the credits to buy these things. Add to that all of the instruments that I sell on the bazaar as well as revenue from the medical supplies I make while practicing med crafting, and... well, I have a lot of money lately. At lower skill levels though, you probably will end up running UPS missions when you need something... but what do you need to buy besides instruments? And most musicians I know will make one of those for you for free if you dig up the wood and metal (100 credits for survey skill). If you don't want to deliver, then take up a combat skill - you have plenty of points to master 2 elite professions, so pick one and go run regular missions with some people.

Along those same lines, once player houses are more abundant and well-known, some of them will become known entertainer hangouts, i.e., cantinas, and they will be able to charge access fees and/or kick/ban bad customers or troublemakers as they see fit. The reason people will use these player-run cantinas and be more than happy to pay the cover charge is that they will be a minute or two from where they are fighting, instead of the nearest city which may be 10-15 minutes away.

FYI, devs don't read or post on this board, and I don't think anyone has been given the musician correspondent position yet.

well I for one have given up playing in canteenas

whats the point no tips jerks hooting and hollering all for what a FEW extra music exp's and healing exp's ???!!!

I wish all entertainers would stop playing canteenas till people smarten up

they do 10 missions make 4k come into the bay with 500+ nattle fatuge and leave fully healed adn dont tip???!!!

A lot of bars charge a couver charge or have a two drink minum

same thing here

and a lot of bard that have LIVE entertainment have cover charges!