Musician Archive
Thread: Bloodfin: Battle of the Bands Challenge
Subcriminal
Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:33 pm
#27
From what I read above, you were all working toegther for a client who disclosed specific instructions as to what he/she wanted in a performance. You wanted to get creative and do something outside of these guidelines, at which point Voce asked you not to since the client asked for something veryspecific.
I'd hate to tell you this but Voce was correct in his actions. This isn't to say that your desire to express yourself artisitically is a bad thing, In fact it's great and I am sure Voce would have encouraged this in a different situation. When a client is paying you to do something and tells you what he wants, any entertaining troupe who takes their reputation seriously will OBEY- and curb their own opinions or desire to change the performance.
I don't think you meant any harm in wanting to be creative, but I don't think you realized that there was a very good chance it would have upset the client, or displeased him/her.
I am a computer graphic artist/new media designer in real life. I am extremely artistic and creative. Let me tell you, if you don't do EXACTLY what the client wants you to do the following will happen:
1) Get fired by the client
2) Get a bad reference from the client
3) Don't get paid by the client
4) You will get yelled at/repremanded/humiliated by the client
In most cases clients already know that they want you to do, and they are paying you to obey. Sometimes they allow you a certain amount creative freedom, but in these cases they tell you up front how much artistic freedom they are willing to give you. Any designer that oversteps these boundsis acting unprofessionally and jeopardizing their reputation and relationship with the client. This is why Voce asked you to stop what you were doing, it wasn't meant to insult you or criticize your personal style. He was trying to ensure that the troup was pleasing the client's specific requests, and keep things professional.
One example from real life I can give ya:one client directly said that he wanted me to design a 2d glash game GUI that looked "gaudy" and "loud" with mustard yellow colors. Every fiber of my artistic being was SQUIRMING. But what did I do? I put on a smily face and make it look like I was happy to complete the assigment. In his own head he already knew that he wanted, he wasn't interested in my artistic opinion, he wanted me to create this "vision" of his since he lacked the skill to do it himself (which is why people hire designers to begin with). The job was to create something gaudy and loud, not for me to put my creative two cents into the aesthetics of the project (no matter how much I wanted to). Obey I did. I got paid, kpet my opinions to myself, client was happy.
So you can't do what you want in the name of artistic expression when the client is paying you to do what HE wants, rather that what YOU want. Please the client, do a good job, get paid, get good rep- thats what you do for a paid gig. On your own time you can be as creative as you like, but not when you're working for a client with specific requests.
Message Edited by Subcriminal on 09-29-2004 07:44 PM
Fittz-O-Terror
Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:25 pm
#28
Thanks subcriminal and to anyone elsetaking thetime tocomment, criticize orassess my psyche.
However I don't see them as participation towards a creative event which was part of the original challenge.
I posted on the other boards to make public that Voce is a coward as he suggested and as per the customs of the Duello (Elizabethian Period Duel).
I am one player, taking on another and if Voce's guild was behind him, they should have laughed and said "OK Voce, he thinks he's a tough cookie, let's blow him out of the water." Some of you might remember the old Mickey Roonie movies..."Let's put on a show" Mickey put on those shows to overcome some adversity and the whole process made for hella entertaining movies..
Think, comment and diagnose in a manner to discourage if you feel the need, but wouldn'tmore creative participation make for a better ending to a story? Granted, the silly argument which lead to the challenge was petty and a display of childish behavior on both our parts. You're all absolutely right, I took this farther thanI should have and made ripples(Oh Heaven Forbid, asocial fauz paus)and Ihave gone to the store for more diapers and Kleenx so mommy can wipe my eyes from crying.
For whatever reason, I challenged a duel, opponent declined, I made public my statement. Let the flogging continue, though you may batter my body, my emotions, you will never kill my spirit until you kill me.
Subcriminal
Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:22 pm
#29
Fittz-O-Terror wrote:
Thanks subcriminal and to anyone elsetaking thetime tocomment, criticize orassess my psyche.
However I don't see them as participation towards a creative event which was part of the original challenge.
I posted on the other boards to make public that Voce is a coward as he suggested and as per the customs of the Duello (Elizabethian Period Duel).
I am one player, taking on another and if Voce's guild was behind him, they should have laughed and said "OK Voce, he thinks he's a tough cookie, let's blow him out of the water." Some of you might remember the old Mickey Roonie movies..."Let's put on a show" Mickey put on those shows to overcome some adversity and the whole process made for hella entertaining movies..
Think, comment and diagnose in a manner to discourage if you feel the need, but wouldn'tmore creative participation make for a better ending to a story? Granted, the silly argument which lead to the challenge was petty and a display of childish behavior on both our parts. You're all absolutely right, I took this farther thanI should have and made ripples(Oh Heaven Forbid, asocial fauz paus)and Ihave gone to the store for more diapers and Kleenx so mommy can wipe my eyes from crying.
For whatever reason, I challenged a duel, opponent declined, I made public my statement. Let the flogging continue, though you may batter my body, my emotions, you will never kill my spirit until you kill me.
Your whole motive for the duel is dishonorable and childish. What person of sound mind entertain your desire for a duel? You seem so hell bent on trying to prove that you're better than Voce, why? What did he do to you that was wrong? Do you honesly think he was wrong to enforce the clients wishes and so as to protect the professional reputation of the troupe? I think I've already clearly illustrated why you would most certainly be in the wrong: Client + $$ > your creative 2 cents= humor your client and shut up. You also can't seem to handle the responsibilities or ethicsof performing during a paid gig for a client. So perhaps you should retire from entertaining altogether, and spare us the drama of your problems with authority.
Katannah
Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:18 am
#30
Am I right in assuming that this is in regards to a certain wedding held the night of 22 September on Endor?
Blizzey
Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:05 am
#31
yes Keesa it is, he doesn't think we did a very good at the wedding...
Katannah
Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:27 am
#32
K. Thought so.
Ariadne was working with a handicap--me.I told her what kind of music I wanted and to make it sound good, but not so good that it upstaged the bride. Same with the dancing. Ariadne was very understanding. You all worked wonders with what little room, instruction, andsuggestionsI gave you, including basically ignoring you once we all got together. There was absolutely no coordination from me and the bride, no rehearsal, but youall didn't complain or demand my time and attention. I really, really appreciated that.
This was not a concert designed to showcase your glorious talents and most of you seemed to get that instinctively. While people oooh'd and aaaah'd a bit, they actually paid more attention to the bride and groom than the entertainers. Mission accomplished.
Now, see... where I come from the customer is always right. So my advice is to keep listening to your customers, and maybe don't bring the prima donna next time.
Katannah
Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:30 am
#33
Oh and Punky, thanks for criticizing my taste in music and obviously substandard design for my friend's wedding to the entire Musician board. And then Bloodfin. GG, thanks a lot.
Maybe I should call YOU out for causing me embarrassment and discomfort.
Blizzey
Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
#34
Keesa, I am sorry this was brought out...I didn't realize me asking him to tone it down and give you exactly what you wanted was this big a deal... I was doing what you wanted..and for the record ENTS didn't bring Punky along he came on his own after he was asked to remove himself from the music group.
Fittz-O-Terror
Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:42 am
#36
Opps....Voce, now let's not twist the truth. I removed MYSELF from the wedding gig. And much to my disappointment too...
Fittz-O-Terror
Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:51 am
#37
Oh...and I hope you've all had a great time reaming me a new arsehole. It's amazing that my guts aren't falling out when I walk.
btw...Ihave YET to get ANY response from ANYONE with any creative ideas about a battle of the bands performance....now that's just SAD.
Blizzey
Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:29 pm
#38
I told you I am not accepting your challenge, I have nothing to prove to you. The only opinions that matter to me are those of my friends.
Bim_Azul
Sun Oct 03, 2004 5:31 pm
#39
... and I accepted your challenge, to which you backed out.
I however, hold no grudge or ill will towards you, so if you ever want to be my backup band, give me a holler.