Musician Archive
Thread: State of the Musician Profession
How about a new type of cantina for places other than Mos Eisely, (which has the model of the cantina you're using, from 'A New Hope')? There needs to be a central stage, and a dance area, and tables. The one I've seen in the player city, Austin Hans, on the Test Server looks ideal.
overall, I think you've done a wonderful job of compiling the issues that I've either experienced or heard about from others. I'm a casual player and usually spend a lot of my time roleplaying, so I've only just recently hit Novice Musician and have a ways to go before some of these affect me, but I fully intend to Master and stick with this profession, so I can't wait to see how it improves over time.Since I agree with most of the items you have listed, I'll only list the ones I have strong feelings about. Otherwise, assume I agree with your statements.
First, one thing I didn't see in your list: Performing while moving. My biggest complaint about trying to put together a decent performance is not being able to walk around and play at the same time. Emotes and flourishes help, but it would be nice to be able to walk amongst an audience, or to be able to choreograph band movements.
Now, your list:
2. Discourage AFK-macro’ing. - The higher I go in this profession, the less this seems to be an issue for me, mainly because I have moved out of the starting cities and into player-run cantinas in my city. On the occasions when I do play in Theed or Keren, I've been able to ignore the AFK musicians and/or kick them from the group. I think a very simple solution would be the pop-ups similar to what samplers get (I just saw my first one the other week) that require some sort of interaction, but this probably isn't such a high-priority issue at the moment.
3. Better gig missions. - Absolutely. Please!
4. More content. - This is one that I haven't experienced yet, but I'm all for getting it going now, so I don't have to wait on it once I hit Master. There are a lot of environmental additions the Devs could make that would make the galaxy feel more interactive, and this would show that they are not basing their content strictly on the combat classes.
5. Self-buff and other improvements to our buff. - Improve the interface, but I see no reason for self-buffs. "Spread the love to others," is what I say.
6. Mind heals and other ways to be useful in a combat group. - I'd really like to see these, though I noticed in the new patch notes that Combat Medics will have the ability to heal mind damage. I'd rather see us able to do that in camps.
7. Music composition. - If we were given new songs, flourishes, and instruments, I don't see a need for this. I'm one of those people who would try it if we had it, but I also have an idea of how difficult it would be to sync up the sound so that it was bearable to listen to. Realistically, I don't see it happening and would rather see Dev time spent on other issues.
10. There is divided opinion on Ceremonial and the Mandoviol. - Definitely move these to Master Musician. I understand the desire to balance Entertainer issues, but I don't see Entertainer as a profession that most people will Master unless they already have the intention of moving to one of the elite classes. Put the Music where it belongs.
II. Bugs
4. Inability to /register at a small tavern or cantina. - Along the lines of 'register, I'd like to see a listing on the Planetary Map sidebar of all those who are registered in a location, and not just the symbol showing that someone is registered.
III. Balance
1. Money-making for entertainers. - Can I get an Amen? This is absolutely my #1 issue at the moment. As a resident of a player city, we're already talking about taxation (through a flat weekly citizenship tax, as well as sales tax, shuttle tax, and property tax for those who don't know). Personally, I'm worried about being able to afford new instruments and clothing, much less keeping up with my taxes. Meanwhile, the only suggestion anyone has to offer is, "Go run a destroy mission. That should cover it." I'm a musician...I'd much rather be able to run musician missions to pay the rent if I have to run any missions at all.
3. Bandflo XP. - Not something I have a strong opinion on, but I see no reason why you couldn't give XP to everyone in a group. If you don't want someone in the group to gain XP because they are AFK, kick them out of the group or stop the band and start a new song. As I mentioned above, AFK'ing just isn't the high-priority issue I used to think it was.
That's all I have...Thanks for your hard work NewJedi!
/cheer newjedi
I really only have one comment on the list items. In the additional content area you bring up Monkey's bandleader idea. Overall I like the ideas presented in there but would rather see that sort of thing added into the musician skill lines rather than creating an elite-elite profession. I'm in full agreement that masters need something to do. However, something that cost's aditional skill points isn't particularly intersting. MM/ME is already a significant skillpoint sink to get all the songs and instruments. Adding another full tree of skills (while making the master musician not particularly masterful) makes it so that we can't have skills allowing us to leave the cantina. I think more content should be added into the existing skill trees like happened with architect getting the city planner schematics instead of creation of new professions.
hi, I am a master musician and a master entertainer. The only thing i want "fixed" is not having to target your omni or nalargon, and to be able to self buff.
-thankyou for listening
I'm not sure, because I'm rarely on the forums, if there has been something similar posted. If there is I appologize. For TKA, I have a couple suggestions, but would first like to thank the devs ten times over for the love they've already given TKA. One: Why is it that when I'm wearing my vk's my range is now shorter? Wouldn't having something at the end of your arm's length be the same range, or even longer? Suggestion: Make the range the same at least for all attacks excluding the lunge. Two: In combat, and PVP especially, there is a grand amount of lag which causes an 'out of range' message to appear even though from my side of the screen it appears to be 1m or even less. I realize this is probably due to server lag and in PVP I would think makes it worse having to sinc two computers, but there must be something that can be done. Suggestion: Maybe make the actual range something in the neighborhood of 10-12m while you are moving only so that when you are chasing someone/thing down you may not get the message as often. Three: Why does dizzy only work on humanoids? Wouldn't a creature also react similarly to being dizzy? Suggestion: Make creatures react to dizzy, but make the dizzy last for a shorter period of time on them. This would make the whole thing a little more balanced in my humble opinion. You may also think about making it a little more difficult to stick the dizzy on creatures also, to go along with this suggestion, so asto not make it into an exploit rather than a balancing trait.
Respectfully, Kenyo Zheng Co-Founder of The Martial Order DOJO
I. Gameplay
1. New songs, flourishes, instruments – and distinct sounds for each instrument. This is still the most commonly-cited issue for Musicians. The devs have promised new songs, instruments, flourishes, and effects, but we don’t have a timetable for their arrival. Note that I’ve lumped in "distinct sounds" with "new songs" because these concerns are usually cited together.
I'm interested in hearing more guitar music for the Mandoviol and more piano stuff for the Nala. Perhaps they could adda harp of some kind? We could use some hard rock and pop type stuff, whatever would count towards that in the SW continuity. I'm also for the distinct sounds, because it would really help make the sound richer.
2. Discourage AFK-macro’ing. Many Musicians wants the devs to find ways to encourage people to be at their keyboards. Some Musicians in this forum argue that AFK-macro’ing is not a big problem, but most Musicians say they want the devs to encourage "live" musicianship – perhaps through interactive gig missions, better content, more usefulness in combat groups, improvement of our buffs, etc. I’ve stickied a thread in the Musician forum on these and other player suggestions.
Kill AFK macroing. Use a BFG 5000 on it if you have to, grenades, lightsabers, I don't care. Just kill it; it is killing the quality of our profession steadily. People desperately need to learn that MMORPGs live and die by the quality of it's gameplay. The more automation that exists seems to erode the quality. We play these games for live interactions with multiple players, not CPUs!
3. Better gig missions. Almost unanimously, Musicians want gig missions that pay better, that are somehow skilled to entertaining skill, and (perhaps) are more interactive, to discourage AFK’ing. Again, I’ve stickied a thread in the Musician forum with player suggestions about how to make better missions.
Dude, you are so preaching to the converted on this one. I'm continually broke in game, and have to do Rebel destroy missions so I can makeenough to get places for my player-ordered Musician gigs. Not to mention house upkeep and other concerns - like clothing. Don't laugh, if you're a real entertainer, you know the importance of a solid wardrobe...
4. More content. A large number of Musicians say they want more content, especially post-Master content. Some ask for epic quests, or some special role in the GCW, or at least the chance to obtain a Holocron. Others have suggested new elite Musician professions, such as a Bandleader (who could have a backup Musician and could do group effects, spins, as well as dance/music bandflos). (See Monkey’s excellent thread on this topic for an example.) People want more to do as Musicians.
Epic quests and a special role in the GCW, Musicians need not these things. A Holocron would be kinda neat, although that's not really too important for us right now. You're sure right in that people want to do more entertainer stuff. Maybe some mixmaster turntable stuff, or something like it? DJ Sef wants to keep the party boppin!
5. Self-buff and other improvements to our buff. Most Musicians want a self-buff, though I’ve read one or two dissenting posts here (at least one of which was by a Rifleman
. Many Musicians have also requested an improved interface and better feedback for our buff. E.g., people request a graphical representation of when our buff is being applied, or at least a system message confirming that the buff is being applied. Some also ask for a guide to the buff, perhaps in the CTL-H Holocron.
A guide to this buff would be really helpful. I don't really think we need a self buff - we can always listen TO EACH OTHER! *jabs the nearest MM in the ribs* Improved interface and feedback is a must, graphics preferred over system messages.
6. Mind heals and other ways to be useful in a combat group. Lots of people cite ‘usefulness in a group,’ by which they usually mean mind heals or at least better buffs. No one wants to be an EQ bard, but a number of Musicians have proposed a craftable ‘holostim’ or ‘recording’ that could confer a mind heal. Those who oppose mind heals say it will dilute the role of the entertainer and that it doesn’t make sense. Those who support them say a mind heal would give entertainers more gameplay options, and that a holostim is no more magical than existing medical stims and ranged heals, which rely on technology from a galaxy far, far away.
I am wholly and screamingly against the holostim/recording idea. Trust me when I agree with the claim it will definately dilute the entertainer, it's like a AFKer but one you can pop into your backpack. Don't make us more useless than the AFKers are helping us degrade to. Let US provide the mind heal, just park your butt on the chair and do some /listen-ing.
Also, what the HECK are we doing in a COMBAT GROUP with our instruments? We are so not EQ bards, it's not even funny. Please disregard any more requests for "combat oriented music buffs". That isn't what we exist for. We're artists at heart, not warriors. If you wanna be "roxxor 133t kewl" warrior types, drop by our cantina performances, get psyched from the mind buff and go out there humming our tunes as you blast/cut/punch away. I know it works for me when I listen to Megadeth and then play Doom. *shrug*
7. Music composition. Many Musicians want to be able to compose music, or at least improvise MIDI-style on their keyboards, but copyright concerns appear to be a formidable obstacle. Could the devs comment?
Great idea, but I fear seeing the latest Britney Spears or Paul McCartney song in your local city cantina. People can't be trusted like that, unfortunately.
8. Crafting improvements. Right now experimentation does nothing relevant to instruments. Perhaps the decay-on-death feature on TC will change this. But Musicians also ask for other crafting improvements – the chance to make instruments that look different, for example. Or sound different, heh.
Experimentation for sound quality, endurance, and appearance alteration would be interesting although at this time not particularly pressing...
9. Dynamics. Some Musicians have requested the ability to change a particular instrument’s volume. They ask for the ability to perform crescendos and decrescendos.
I'm down with this idea, sounds nifty.
10. There is divided opinion on Ceremonial and the Mandoviol. In my recent thread asking for everyone’s "top issue," at least 7 Musicians asked that Ceremonial and the mando be put in the Master Musician tree – but almost as many other Musicians posted in disagreement, arguing that the mando is the only thing that makes Master Entertainer worth having. I’ve had about a 50/50 split on the issue in previous polls.
The ME guys are right. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother keeping that particular mastery. A suggestion: Instead of bending over backwards to give the Master Musicians what is currently now in the Master Entertainer's category, that someone rewrite the Master Musician and Master Entertainer entries to be different enough to give reason for the seperation. I can't see a reason to have spent the skill for it otherwise...
11. New cantina features. Some players propose that cantinas house a bulletin board – a central message-posting place. Others have suggested that cantinas have billboards announcing when a particularly accomplished band is playing. Others have proposed that NPC cantina managers might pay bands to perform or do gigs or some such.
These all sound wonderful, although I can see ways they could be abused... or misused. I'd love to see my name in lights in game, but I forsee the names of prominent AFKers getting up there, and those guys shouldn't get famous... they're not even there...
12. A few Musicians think newbs should be able to play high-level songs if grouped with Masters. But many Musicians disagree. My previous polling found a majority opposed to any change.
No, absolutely not. Learn the freakin' song yourselves, my newb friends. A new high school band member has no right to sound like Aerosmith or Yo-Yo Ma. Them is just the breaks.
II. Bugs
1. The stat bug. Far and away, the most commonly-cited bug is that our buff often mangles the buff recipient’s stats. This seems most likely to occur when the recipient already has some other buff up, such as a doctor, dancer, or Chef buff. Again, I’ve stickied a thread in the Musician forum in which players have posted details on the bug.
It would be nice not to shred my newest fan's stats, although I'm flattered my music is such a force of nature. Really. 
Someone fix that, please.
2. Targeting of the nalargon and ommni box. I’m not sure whether this is a "bug" or "gameplay feature," but either way it annoys a large number of Musicians. You can’t play these instruments unless you keep them targeted. You can work around it to some extent by emoting with the command line, but it’s still undeniably annoying. Also, the instruments can be moved around by others. Some Musicians tell me they can even be stolen, but this hasn’t happened to me.
This is a gameplay feature that ismost likely viewed as a bug. It's a just a pain. Why can't those two work like all my other instruments? Why must I fear a mouse misclick to disrupt my pretty piano tunes? :\ I didn't realize the instruments could still be moved around by others until last night, which was kinda disturbing... they need to prevent that...
3. A "gap" at the end of flourishes. Many Musicians have posted that they hear a 32nd-note gap or delay at the end of flourishes or loops. I myself am not sure whether it’s a mere gap or an actual delay of the first beat of the next measure. Either way, it’s disconcerting. Can the devs comment?
I've noticed there seems to be a weird gap at the "end" of a song, where there's no sound at all and we're just shaking back and forth. It's very, very aggrivating, as you can't hear your flourishes. I could sound like a rooster in a blender and know it not!
4. Inability to /register at a small tavern or cantina. I haven’t tried this myself, but I just read a post asserting that you can’t /register in such a spot.
Haven't tried it either. They should fix it if it IS true, though.
III. Balance
1. Money-making for entertainers. I’ve already listed gig missions in the "gameplay" section, but money-making is also a balance issue. Entertainers are of course weak militarily, but unfortunately many are also weak economically – which means we’re weak on both fronts. Our buff may help our cashflow. But many Musicians want the devs to look to additional ways for Musicians to make money. I’ve read suggestions that Musicians have the ability to craft recordings or holostims which could be used by one or more professions (entertainers, Squad Leaders, maybe medics?). Of course better gig missions would help.
I'm weak economically in game. My newest jobsite in game is helping on this, but I need to find a new way to get shekels, you know? But NO HOLOSTIMS! Bad idea, nub use! Yet I'm not sure what they could do, really. Better gig missions -WOULD- help. (Are you offering me a better gig mission? Do I have to douse myself in Corellian Ale and light myself up too? Cool!)
2. Holocrons for entertainers! The devs have indicated that they’ll give crafters a chance to obtain Holocrons. What about entertainers?
I tell you, if I did get a Holocron, Starsider had better watch out for the hippest Padawan Learner yet...
3. Bandflo XP. In my most recent poll, one or two Musicians asked that bandflourish XP not be confined to the leader. But others argue that granting bandflo XP to everyone will only encourage more AFK-macro’ing. More generally, as our profession has matured, XP issues seem to have dropped way down the priority list.
To my experience, using Bandflo should net you only as much experience as you would normally make. It could help lessen the Bandflo Vampire Population, which is annoying as FPS ninja kill stealing.
Wow looks like about everything was covered concerning musician problems.
one thing i did notice that was missing, the ability to "Group Tip" musicians would be a nice idea if possible.
Regardless, as a band leader, it would be a good feature to have.
Can I stress the need for the developers to do/say something about Entertainers and holocrons/FSS?
I have to admit, that I feel like I'm on the outside looking in, when it comes to the Jedi Craze.
The only options presented so far require me to do things drastically different from what my character was laid out to do. (He's not Imperial, he's not an uber combat guy, and he certainly doesn't have the credits to buy something like that)It's one thing to have to alter your character in response to a holocron, but to have to alter your character in order to get your FIRST holocron!?!? Seems wrong to me.
Slightly off topic, but not really!