Musician Archive
Thread: The Entertainer's place in the new Jedi system (actually, lack thereof)
Warryyr
Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:28 am
#14
Because of my last post, I'm banning myself from the forums for the rest of the day.
Sorry folks, but we and our correspondents worked to be included in this Jedi system, and the Devs had nothing but time to do something about that.
All they did was make me more bitter because of their indifference to us.
Can't heal Battle Fatigue in the Village, reliant on combat folks to get us INTO the Village = total disregard for our professions.
Inexcusable. Just plain inexcusable. No gameplayers should be treated like this.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-16-2004 11:40 AM
JohnMarble
Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:39 pm
#15
Yeah, well, they weren't even going to include entertainers at all, originally. Then the correspondants complained and they tossed in the mind healing. Lol. I honestly don't think the devsplay their own game, how could anybody in their right minds think that's worth anything, anybody who spent any amount of time being healed in the cantina? Why would any entertainer want to be force sensitive?How utterly pointless.
I say the correspondants take it back, make it so you cannot turn in entertainer experience, and there's no force sensitivity for us. We take it back! We changed our minds! No entertainer with any sense would want to be force sensitive, it's just something the uber leets will abuse again.
It's going to be the hologrind all over again, only this time they won't leave! The cantinas will be flooded with spamming masters.
It's like they tossed us a bleached bone, and it exploded in shrapnel.
Cudayn
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:11 pm
#16
I honestly always had this image of a "mysterious stranger", yeah its ironic, walking into the cantina I was playing at and just start speaking with me. And if my conversation seemed to interest him, then perhaps he would tell me a small secret that I would not be able to share with anyone. Be it a place to go, another NPC to speak with, whatever. But then I would be given a choice to follow a path, even if it just led tobeing and havinga force sensitive slot later down the road.
I honestly wanted to be, and maybe still do want to be a Jedi, but I can not invision myself as a whirling dervish, but rather the kindly healer type that could even help sooth the mind and body with a few well played tunes. I can see myself as the whirling dervish if I wanted a Dark Side Jedi, but I don't know if i could follow that path. And real quick on that subject, i thought deeds would somehow be counted and that would determine your light side dark side affiliation, not a physical choice by the player.
Friday I did get onto TC2 and I altered myself to be a Master Pistoleer, as well as a Master Entertainer, but only 4,0,4,0 Musician. That was to allow for the crafting quests, whichI had also picked up Artisan 0,0,0,4 as well as Novice Medic. Anyhow, I never initiated any combat what so ever, I just went out of Entha, where I started, and the Old Man appeared in maybe 5 minutes, if not sooner, while I had been "dying" my armor. (Yeah gotta look good even in borrowed armor 
)
) As soon as I had been approached by the stranger, which by the way, who knows what its going to take to get him to appear? I stayed in the area waiting for the thugs to come and try to take my crystal. They didn't spawn for me that I found and I had even stayed on foot part of the time. I did go to another town and maybe 10 minutes after wandering out of the city, I was attacked.
The first attackers were blue to me ( Master Pistoller remember) and were dispatched very easily. I got the wp from the datadisk and went in search of the Sith camp. I had to take on 3 Sith, 2 were yellow cons, 1 was a red con, and I was fully buffed from the cool frog. I did take them down without much worry of dying, but you are going to need a lot of help if and when you get a visit from the stranger if you have no combat skills.
I made it all the way to the Village and was going to try the crafter quests, but the message box kept jerking around ( I assume because of the mass of people all talking to the Elder at the same time?) and I wound up with combat missions. I wish you could get rid of them and get new quests, but they do say bring a friend.
I honestly do not know how I feel about being forced into a combat role or having to have someone support me if I somehow get a visit from the stranger. I suppose that the life of any jedi would have been in danger during the time this is supposed to be happening, however continuity has been all but totally broken in the game right now anyhow.
I know I really don't want to mess with my build, but if it will open a second character slot for me, I guess that will be my cost, unless they have changed their minds and no one will have a second character slot? /boggle
Durney Kova
Master Entertainer / Master Musician / Master Image Designer / Novice Dancer
Straker_Atrella
Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:10 pm
#17
Yea this is a problem with the Crafters as well, combat is involved, and little benefit, as a DE/Musician, I feel the pain. Our Corr on the DE boards said they "may" be looking into an option for the non-combat types. It's actually not surprising that they are focusing more on the combat parts first, I know itsucks, but most people have at least a little combat ability, or an alt who does. It sucks, but hopefully it comes.
An option until then is to get a top of the lineProbot, and have some really nice Droid stims. With 3200 HAM, and stims that heal for 1600+, I bet you and your droid could take the Siths. May take a while, but you could do it. I know it's not what many of you want, especially the peaceful types,but it'san option.
I don't think this will bring the AFKers back to the Cantinas. With a couple of hours hunting, you can make a ton more XP then you canEntertaining all day, so most of your hard core players will do that.People will much rather do something they prefer over something they don't.A valid concern is thatpeople will hunt during the day, then Entertain AFK when they are not around. The problem with that is low level Entertaining xp bites. You would want to be at least 0040 in Musician or Dancer, even then you would only get Entertainer XP, not healing.
The mentality of the person your worried about is one who will hunt during the day and afk at night, yet for it to be worthwhile, they would be spending a TON of skill points. They could do it with crafting for less skill points, but then they would need resources. Most of that mindset people your talknig about will want to be as uber as they can and wont want to lose skill points.
So a few people may do it, but nothing like before.
Cudayn
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:48 pm
#18
Cudayn wrote:
I honestly always had this image of a "mysterious stranger", yeah its ironic, walking into the cantina I was playing at and just start speaking with me. And if my conversation seemed to interest him, then perhaps he would tell me a small secret that I would not be able to share with anyone. Be it a place to go, another NPC to speak with, whatever. But then I would be given a choice to follow a path, even if it just led tobeing and havinga force sensitive slot later down the road.
I honestly wanted to be, and maybe still do want to be a Jedi, but I can not invision myself as a whirling dervish, but rather the kindly healer type that could even help sooth the mind and body with a few well played tunes. I can see myself as the whirling dervish if I wanted a Dark Side Jedi, but I don't know if i could follow that path. And real quick on that subject, i thought deeds would somehow be counted and that would determine your light side dark side affiliation, not a physical choice by the player.
Friday I did get onto TC2 and I altered myself to be a Master Pistoleer, as well as a Master Entertainer, but only 4,0,4,0 Musician. That was to allow for the crafting quests, whichI had also picked up Artisan 0,0,0,4 as well as Novice Medic. Anyhow, I never initiated any combat what so ever, I just went out of Entha, where I started, and the Old Man appeared in maybe 5 minutes, if not sooner, while I had been "dying" my armor. (Yeah gotta look good even in borrowed armor
As soon as I had been approached by the stranger, which by the way, who knows what its going to take to get him to appear? I stayed in the area waiting for the thugs to come and try to take my crystal. They didn't spawn for me that I found and I had even stayed on foot part of the time. I did go to another town and maybe 10 minutes after wandering out of the city, I was attacked.
The first attackers were blue to me ( Master Pistoller remember) and were dispatched very easily. I got the wp from the datadisk and went in search of the Sith camp. I had to take on 3 Sith, 2 were yellow cons, 1 was a red con, and I was fully buffed from the cool frog. I did take them down without much worry of dying, but you are going to need a lot of help if and when you get a visit from the stranger if you have no combat skills.
I made it all the way to the Village and was going to try the crafter quests, but the message box kept jerking around ( I assume because of the mass of people all talking to the Elder at the same time?) and I wound up with combat missions. I wish you could get rid of them and get new quests, but they do say bring a friend.
I honestly do not know how I feel about being forced into a combat role or having to have someone support me if I somehow get a visit from the stranger. I suppose that the life of any jedi would have been in danger during the time this is supposed to be happening, however continuity has been all but totally broken in the game right now anyhow.
I know I really don't want to mess with my build, but if it will open a second character slot for me, I guess that will be my cost, unless they have changed their minds and no one will have a second character slot? /boggle
Durney Kova
Master Entertainer / Master Musician / Master Image Designer / Novice Dancer
Ladies and gentlemen,
An FYI.....
There is some person/persons ( My guess is someone with multiple accounts that has voting rights on each)running around in the Image Designer thread who is one staring everyone and if you have spoke out about it, they are following you into the other boards and one staring them as well. But this person is also going back a ways and one staring older posts as well.
If anyone knows if this can be traced for harrasment, please let me know. I am all for freedom of speech but this person obviously has nothing but time on their hands and is intent on making sure that anyone who is an Image Designergets one stared.
Thanks,
Durney
sweatyclimber
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:05 pm
#19
ok i've been on TC2 since pub10 has been up and here is my take....
Number one thing is that this adds quite a lot of RP in the village and the quests too the village. I have to say its the best thing for RP they have ever added ever.
Old man: Yes you have to worry about the sith afterwards... but the req. to get in will be well known w/in a week. So you can be prepared to expect it. Also... we are socializers... we know practically half of each of our respective servers.... If you cant get someone to help you then I would have to say that it is unlikely your being a good entertainer.
Sith camp: With this once again, you can now do it at your own time and call for help. Being social we should surely be able to do this.
After those: You do not have to elect to take any combat missions. You can get to jedi initiate with just entertainer skills... Yes it would take a while, but you get reg craft. XP for making instraments. You get healing with entertaining. That can fill 36 boxes which is enough to get jedi initiate.
After that: wel then your a jedi(ish)... you can continue and focus mostly on healing.... but lets be real, all jedi face *some* combat.
The village adds a *ton* of RP possibilites and fun. Even some of the combat missions we could do. In 40 wp's on patrol i belive i was asked to fight 3 times. Each time.... tho slow, a marksman with almost no skills could win (buffed). The good thing is its a patrol... So unless your a pacifist, you should have no problems with that. Also if your a scout, make tents... play there and you can get some xp aswell ... of both kinds.
Lets be real guys..... this did add some stuff and is good content.... But don't let this post make you think that i don't think we should be able to heal bf at the village and that the healing (senses) line shouldnt offer us better bonus's
Warplex
Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:31 am
#20
I'm a TKM, Master Musician, and Master entertainer. I'm doing 16 boxes of combat related FS skills and 8 boxes of entertainer related FS skills. I will have to cap myTKA exp almost 100 times, and my musician exp 53 times. Has anyone here actually capped their musician exp 27 times (required amount to get 4 boxes for our piss poorGREAT bonouses)?
Warryyr
Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:18 am
#21
Warplex wrote:
I'm a TKM, Master Musician, and Master entertainer. I'm doing 16 boxes of combat related FS skills and 8 boxes of entertainer related FS skills. I will have to cap myTKA exp almost 100 times, and my musician exp 53 times. Has anyone here actually capped their musician exp 27 times (required amount to get 4 boxes for ourpiss poorGREAT bonouses)?
I'm not happy that I need to endlessly grind out my chosen profession until I get Jedi - it will make me despise what I enjoy about playing the game, out of frustration from grinding so much.
This system is just not cool. I don't like the direction this game is heading. Too many half thought-out "fixes" and "adjustments" and way too much mindless grinding. That is not my idea of fun. I love performing, but I'm afraid that this system will persuade peopleto perform just to work towards a Jedi, NOT perform to entertain.
All those buffbot accounts will just be Jedi grinding accounts. It's really a shame. And it'll result in a bunch of Jedi that were born through 99% AFK play.
Warryyr
Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:41 am
#22
JohnMarble wrote:
Yeah, well, they weren't even going to include entertainers at all, originally. Then the correspondants complained and they tossed in the mind healing. Lol. I honestly don't think the devsplay their own game, how could anybody in their right minds think that's worth anything, anybody who spent any amount of time being healed in the cantina? Why would any entertainer want to be force sensitive?How utterly pointless.
I say the correspondants take it back, make it so you cannot turn in entertainer experience, and there's no force sensitivity for us. We take it back! We changed our minds! No entertainer with any sense would want to be force sensitive, it's just something the uber leets will abuse again.
It's going to be the hologrind all over again, only this time they won't leave! The cantinas will be flooded with spamming masters.
It's like they tossed us a bleached bone, and it exploded in shrapnel.
It's pathetic that we had to fight to have our professions included in this major game feature. There is no reason, NONE, why any profession in this game should not have a bonus in the new Jedi system. They worked on this for way too long to just LEAVE OUT professions. What the hell kind of way to run a game is that? The fact that any of us are left out is inexcusable. The fact that we had to have our correspondents thrash the Devs until they included us is WRONG. It's WRONG.
I've come to the conclusion that there are deeper problems in this game besides bugs and long-standing broken code. The game's Development is broken. Any Development Team who ignores a section of the game's population for any reason, when adding new content that should be available to all of the player base, has something very much wrong with them.
I don't know about you people, but I'm sick and tired of being an afterthought and treated like crap.
I'm starting to think that giving us FS bonuses, and xp conversions, yet giving usNO possible way for us to take our journey into Jedihood alone was the last straw. No means of beinghelpful in the Village since there's no cantina or tavern. And here I thoughtthe path to being a Jedi was a VERY PERSONAL JOURNEY - unless your non-combat oriented, then you need to be babysat by someone who can use something besidesa CDEF weapon.
This will be my last post on this matter, sorry for all the banter.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-17-2004 09:05 AM
JohnMarble
Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:50 am
#23
The concept behind this, as the devs saw it: They return from a hard trek out in the wastes on dath, to be greeted by the womenfolk in the warmth and comfort of the cantina. We womenfolk rub their feet and clean their armor for them, then they head back out. We stay behind and pine for them. This is our intended gameplay, now stop walking around while you play your damn instruments.
So, anyway, joking aside, I tried these quests on Test2. I made a musician/pistoleer. I took pistoleer because I played one for a long time,soknew I wouldn't have to spend too long setting up the toolbar with specials. Straight Pistoleers have to be the weakest combat class in the game. I had no problems with the combat for getting into the village. Take marksman and rifles with a good tusken, and you'll have no problems with these fights.
Once you get visited by the old man, the sith that jump you are not random, at least on Test. I shuttled between planests, ran missions, stood for ten minutes doing nothing.I spent a good hour running around, never being attacked.The only way I ever got the Sith to jump me was to shuttle to a player city.Then they attack immedietly.So get visited by the old man, run and get buffed, or get friends to help,then shuttle to a player city. Fight, loot, get nearby waypoint, then fight some more Sith. That's the extent of it, and they were pretty weak NPCs, in my opinion.
Jedi have always been thecarrot the devsdangled for the achiever types. It's like the achiever profession to end all achiever professions, when you think about it. Hey, where will be the place for the combat types in the Hutt casino? No where, probably.
If you're a pure entertainer, there's really no bonus in force sensitivity for youanyway.
Warryyr
Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:18 am
#24
JohnMarble wrote:
The concept behind this, as the devs saw it: They return from a hard trek out in the wastes on dath, to be greeted by the womenfolk in the warmth and comfort of the cantina. We womenfolk rub their feet and clean their armor for them, then they head back out. We stay behind and pine for them. This is our intended gameplay, now stop walking around while you play your damn instruments.
So, anyway, joking aside, I tried these quests on Test2. I made a musician/pistoleer. I took pistoleer because I played one for a long time,soknew I wouldn't have to spend too long setting up the toolbar with specials. Straight Pistoleers have to be the weakest combat class in the game. I had no problems with the combat for getting into the village. Take marksman and rifles with a good tusken, and you'll have no problems with these fights.
Yeah, but should I have to drop my skills to gain others, just to get a chance at working towards a Jedi? Tell a Master TKM/Doctor that he just has to drop one of his professions and get Novice Entertainer for a chance to get THEIR Jedi, and watch the freakouts begin. But when it comes to us, it's no freakin' skin off anyone's back to say, "Just learn some combat skills."
Once you get visited by the old man, the sith that jump you are not random, at least on Test. I shuttled between planests, ran missions, stood for ten minutes doing nothing.I spent a good hour running around, never being attacked.The only way I ever got the Sith to jump me was to shuttle to a player city.Then they attack immedietly.So get visited by the old man, run and get buffed, or get friends to help,then shuttle to a player city. Fight, loot, get nearby waypoint, then fight some more Sith. That's the extent of it, and they were pretty weak NPCs, in my opinion.
I was visited by the Old Man outside of Coronet. I shuttled to Tatooine, Bestine specifically, and went to Ben Kenobi's old house (POI) and the Siths spawned right behind it and attacked me while I was right next to the house. So, I've no idea when they might spawn.
Jedi have always been thecarrot the devsdangled for the achiever types. It's like the achiever profession to end all achiever professions, when you think about it. Hey, where will be the place for the combat types in the Hutt casino? No where, probably.
Yeah, they've only gotten 2 full harcore battle dungeons in the past couple months, so it's about time we got something thrown our way.
If you're a pure entertainer, there's really no bonus in force sensitivity for youanyway.
See, actually, if I'm a pure entertainer I have every incentive to get Force Sensitivity and a Jedi. Why? Maybe I want to experience the game through another character who does some combat - on the same server -but don't want to pay $15 more per month. Maybe I want to try my hand at getting some Mandalorian Armor with some friends. Maybe I want an AV-21 but don't want to spend millions of credits I don't have to get it. Maybe I want to try crafting. Maybe I just want a Jedi character because it's such a Star Wars-specific thing and I grew up dreamingof beinga Jedi.
There are a lot of reasons to go after a Jedi character, aside from the Force Sensitivity bonuses. Disenfranchising Entertainers from even starting their path towards a Jedi (by forcing them into combat regardless of whether they have combat skills or not) is extremely poor planning and a major oversight on the Devs' part.
Let's say an Entertainer gets in the Village. Now what? There are no Entertainer quests. All that time they spent on it, and they couldn't even incorporate any kind of FS Entertainer Quests. Hell, we're still waiting for our other Entertainer Quests. I don't do combat. I don't craft. I don't heal as a medic. There is nothing for me to do in the Village. You can't even freakin' heal Battle Fatigue anywhere in the Village. We're the piddly sewing circle back in the Dathomir Science Outpost cantina, watching everyone come and go and have fun with their Jedi system. Backburner, here we are, and on the backburner we shall stay. It's no way to be treated in this game, it's just not.
I'm feeling very upset and downtrodden since seeing how useless I will be at the Force Sensitivity quests. It makes me so angry at the Devs for doing this to us. Yet again. What in the hell is wrong with this game.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-17-2004 11:20 AM
Tarnak_Archvold
Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:26 am
#25
I have no interest in becoming a Jedi, but I do wand to open the second character slot, I do not think there is much hope of that with the current system... yes I know many players with combat characters, but why should I ask them to follow me around? And should I have to stay in my character home when they are not around out of fear that I mighty meet the old man and be killed when I am on my way out to check out tailor shops?
Of cause I have always know that I should not rely on SOE to provide my entertainment or my contend.
Of cause I have always know that I should not rely on SOE to provide my entertainment or my contend.
Ravanne_Esi
Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:48 am
#26
Warryyr wrote:
Somebody needs to shadow the Dev Team, and everytime any kind of bonus is mentioned for Entertainers and they say, "Oh, gee - let's give em a healing bonus!!!!! They'll just adore that!!!!" someone should throw a mud pie at them and smack 'em with a stick. Get the stupid mind healing out of your brains, give us buffing bonuses.
I WANT THIS JOB!!!!
Point me at the DEV responsible for our dance flourishes still not being finished after more than a year and he will find himself with 100 pounds of snarling, biting,scratchingvicious trouble! I'll claw his eyes out!