Musician Archive
Thread: How many of you ATK musicians use text or emotes in your recursive or nonrecursive macros?
NJ62
Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:54 pm
#14
I know this has been mentioned in the past, but it seems like the simplest option:
Automatic logout based on lack of mouse movement or keystrokes.
Besides the whole drinky-drinky bird problem, wouldn't that be the best solution?
Automatic logout based on lack of mouse movement or keystrokes.
Besides the whole drinky-drinky bird problem, wouldn't that be the best solution?
Chessack
Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:59 pm
#15
NJ62 wrote:
I know this has been mentioned in the past, but it seems like the simplest option:
Automatic logout based on lack of mouse movement or keystrokes.
Besides the whole drinky-drinky bird problem, wouldn't that be the best solution?
Yes, Jess.
And the reason I don't buy the "oh people would 3rd party macro it" is, it works in COH. 20 minutes of no mouse or key activity = AFK autologout. People screamed and whined when it was implemented, but the number of people AFKing in the bus station to level went from 50 or 60 per zone per server, to zero, immediately, and permanently.
If everyone is going to just find a 3rd party macro to do this in SWG, why didn't they in COH? What, you think there are less power levellers in COH? Ha! I laugh. I know of people who level capped 4 days after launch.
The difference between COH and SWG -- and it's a key one -- is that every single time an exploit came up where people could level cap in a day or even a week, the COH devs clamped down on it ruthlessly and without apology. When people said, "No fair -- he did it last week why can't I do it this week!" they showed not the slightest mercy. In SWG, their attitude, incomprehensibly and in defiance of all logic and reason that I can come up with, is "Well if ONE person can level cap in a week, everyone has a right to." How they can think this way just boggles my mind.
They copied just about everything else from COH (combat system, class definitions and roles, everything) -- why not their policy on AFK levelling?
At any rate, don't tell me "It can't be done." (I mean this editorially, not directed at anyone on this thread.) It *can* be done. It *has* been done. It *does* work. The # of people willing to AFK macro with in-game macros is 100x the number of people willing to violate the EULA by installing a 3rd party keypress emulation tool -- and that doesn't include the fact that finding such tools is not trivially easy, nor is installing and running them... you're as likely as not to hose your install and have to re-DL 20 publishes, and most people don't want to bother.
Remember, most AFK macroers are LAZY... they do what they do because it is easy. If they have to work to AFK level, they won't do it, because by definition they don't want to WORK to level -- they want it for free. So again, using COH as an example -- take away the ability to AFK level, and you will get rid of AFKers. Period. End of story.
So you are right, Jess... simple, extreme, ruthless -- AFK for 20 minutes = logout. End of problem, end of story.
C
Gothywench
Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:20 am
#17
I don't use text in my entertainer macros, however I do use text in other macros. As example, when someone is trying to "steal" a newbie's Barc for 100k in Mos E. I'll bark right along next to him, telling the newbs not to get ripped off. 
akimo
Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:02 am
#18
as i was reading this, and getting more pissed as i went down, i saw this post.
"This is an RP profession now. Songs are a way of life in the RP community. Forget about touching macros. There is no longer any need to destroy macros in any way. You give these people any ideas and they will totally destroy it, not fix it. Hasn't history taught you anything? If you don't like the noise in city cantinas, stay out of them. There is little reason to go into them anyways... There has been enough nails in this professions coffin, don't dream up new ones."
couldn't have been said better! for whatever reason, there is simply NO POINT AT ALL to take away our ability to TALK in a macro! what the hell? i mean, now this we have turned into a totl role playing profession, let us get on with it! yes, there is no more need to worry about afk'ers because no one really comes to cantinas anymore. i am sure the afk'ers now are there just to get their skills up so they can have all the tools necessary to do a good show. they are working as buffbots anymore. briha on bria is gone! for god's sake! stop thinking about how to *fix* our profession. if we keep going like this, we wont even have entertainers in this game anymore.
and yes, to answer your question, i use emotes and text ALL THE TIME in my shows! what kind of question is that, anyway? any entertainer worth his or her salt would never have asked that question as the answer is obvious. in fact, o how i wish we could just press an emote and the character would do it - regardless of whether they were animating or not. that woulod save me having to write a stopdancing-do emaote-startdancing macro every time.
"This is an RP profession now. Songs are a way of life in the RP community. Forget about touching macros. There is no longer any need to destroy macros in any way. You give these people any ideas and they will totally destroy it, not fix it. Hasn't history taught you anything? If you don't like the noise in city cantinas, stay out of them. There is little reason to go into them anyways... There has been enough nails in this professions coffin, don't dream up new ones."
couldn't have been said better! for whatever reason, there is simply NO POINT AT ALL to take away our ability to TALK in a macro! what the hell? i mean, now this we have turned into a totl role playing profession, let us get on with it! yes, there is no more need to worry about afk'ers because no one really comes to cantinas anymore. i am sure the afk'ers now are there just to get their skills up so they can have all the tools necessary to do a good show. they are working as buffbots anymore. briha on bria is gone! for god's sake! stop thinking about how to *fix* our profession. if we keep going like this, we wont even have entertainers in this game anymore.
and yes, to answer your question, i use emotes and text ALL THE TIME in my shows! what kind of question is that, anyway? any entertainer worth his or her salt would never have asked that question as the answer is obvious. in fact, o how i wish we could just press an emote and the character would do it - regardless of whether they were animating or not. that woulod save me having to write a stopdancing-do emaote-startdancing macro every time.
NJ62
Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:14 am
#19
Thanks Chessack!
When I mentioned an autologout in the past, the chief legitimate opposition was "well what if I just got buffed and the phone rings and I step away and I lose my 3 hour buffs!" That really isn't an issue anymore.
I am curious if anyone can think of a problem with an auto-logout, besides the obvious effect of removing afk players from the game world in a timely manner.
When I mentioned an autologout in the past, the chief legitimate opposition was "well what if I just got buffed and the phone rings and I step away and I lose my 3 hour buffs!" That really isn't an issue anymore.
I am curious if anyone can think of a problem with an auto-logout, besides the obvious effect of removing afk players from the game world in a timely manner.
Landlubber
Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:31 am
#20
NJ62 wrote:
Thanks Chessack!
When I mentioned an autologout in the past, the chief legitimate opposition was "well what if I just got buffed and the phone rings and I step away and I lose my 3 hour buffs!" That really isn't an issue anymore.
I am curious if anyone can think of a problem with an auto-logout, besides the obvious effect of removing afk players from the game world in a timely manner.
I can't, but SOE probably could: shutting down AFK play would cause many who think they depend on it to raise a stink and could cost them accounts and therefore revenue. Which I suspect to be one of the main reasons why the AFK purge has never happened and probably never will.
NeillM
Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:29 am
#21
I uses text in some song macros I have. I realy would not want to type it out either!
Chessack
Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:16 am
#22
Landlubber wrote:
Shutting down AFK play would cause many who think they depend on it to raise a stink and could cost them accounts and therefore revenue.
I'm sure that's true... COH's devs have a history of doing what is good for the game even if it costs them accounts (and it has, make no mistake about it). I think their "longer view" of things is wiser. They nipped this in the bud last year, and they have not had to deal with it again. Sure it lost them some accounts, but imagine the untold grief it has saved them.
C
Electro
Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:59 am
#23
I have a repertoire of 20 songs. These would all be ruined (they include also special effects, dance flourishes timed with the song, etc. as well as the song text)
LecheHombre
Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:06 pm
#24
Chessack wrote:
...
And the reason I don't buy the "oh people would 3rd party macro it" is, it works in COH. 20 minutes of no mouse or key activity = AFK autologout. People screamed and whined when it was implemented, but the number of people AFKing in the bus station to level went from 50 or 60 per zone per server, to zero, immediately, and permanently.
If everyone is going to just find a 3rd party macro to do this in SWG, why didn't they in COH?
...
It is interesting to hear that it works so well in CoH. I've got no objections to them putting in the exact same system in SWG, I just figured that instead of eliminating 90%+ of the problem, it would only eliminate 5%. Heck, you could stick a rock on one of your keys and get around a "lack of keyboard activity" solution, no 3rd party programs needed. I also recognize that they have an anti 3rd-party macro clause in the EULA right now, but there is no way that they would ever spend the man-hours needed to actually police it.
So, as a followup to my last post, I'll state directly that I would support an activity autologout, and I would be happy if it worked. That being said, I still think that it would be a much better solution to make xp gain, beneficial properties of our professions (buffs), and fun tied more directly to a more active playstyle, as opposed to the current system where there is no game mechanic to discourage AFK "macrotaining" at all.
Panthu
Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:04 pm
#25
I've always agreed with Jess that they should just enforce the default AFK and then logout after so many mitutes of AFK (and stop all game activity while AFK). I also have always agreed with her that we need a "show as offline" option for privacy.
Anyway, I don't think the problem is that they don't know how to do this or what would work and does in other games. I also don't buy the lines about CS. Other games do it, other SOE games. Sure, I'm sure it is a pain for CS, but like so is everything else CS has to deal with. You still do it for your game because these are important things that make the game work better for everyone, which makes the CS cost worth it in the end because happy gamers keep paying and playing.
The real problem I think is that "casual gamers" were the target market when SWG was coming out. Non-hardcore MMORPG players hate it that they are forced to compete with players that are hardcore and basically dedicate their lives and all of their time to playing one of these games.
Middle Earth Online talked about having some type of off line trainer at the time SWG was coming out. Not sure if that's still in their plans, but anyway everybody was thinking about the "casual gamer" at the time. SWG and TSO being the biggest. Some things were great ideas! Player owned NPC vendors, harvesters, factories, all of that is awesome and really supports casual gamers because it can be set up and then left to run while you are offline.
The difference is, there was a big design for all of that and it's been implemented really well. Also, your av logs out - it's just the stuff you've set up that keeps going. We all accept that and most of us love it.
When it extends into cheapening live play or becoming a hindrance to live play is when we take issue with it. If Ent is meant to be something that keeps working for you in some wayeven when you're done playing for the day, that's fine. It needs to be a full on design plan like it has been for Crafters. Just letting people do anything they want to AFK is lame though.
Chessack
Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:01 am
#26
Pan...
It is not clear at all, that casual gamers are the ones AFK macroing. In fact, the majority of AFK macro bots (not just in entertainment but everywhere, including the guys AFK grinding on the Ryatt trail etc) are hardcore gamers. Three different people in my guild who wanted to get the FS grind done super-fast became master musicians and used AFK Macroing to cap and trade in for FS XP. This is not a casual gamer, it is a hardcore gamer. I know of not one single casual gamer in my guild who has EVER done ANYTHING on a long-term AFK macro. I'm not saying they never go AFK, but long-term, perpetual macros for maximized XP gain are things that hardcore gamers do, not casual ones. The hardcore gamers are the ones who want to uber-level uber-fast in their uber-prof, not the casual gamers.
This may be the devs' excuse for allowing AFK macro-bots, but it is not borne out by reality. The same was true in COH... the people whose toons were standing AFK at the train station while their group mates levelled them were hardcore gamers (usually, it was one guy with 2 accounts, having grouped one of his toons with the other so he could level 2 at once). Casual gamers do not do this stuff most of the time. So this may be their excuse, but they're either lying, or they don't understand gamers.
C
It is not clear at all, that casual gamers are the ones AFK macroing. In fact, the majority of AFK macro bots (not just in entertainment but everywhere, including the guys AFK grinding on the Ryatt trail etc) are hardcore gamers. Three different people in my guild who wanted to get the FS grind done super-fast became master musicians and used AFK Macroing to cap and trade in for FS XP. This is not a casual gamer, it is a hardcore gamer. I know of not one single casual gamer in my guild who has EVER done ANYTHING on a long-term AFK macro. I'm not saying they never go AFK, but long-term, perpetual macros for maximized XP gain are things that hardcore gamers do, not casual ones. The hardcore gamers are the ones who want to uber-level uber-fast in their uber-prof, not the casual gamers.
This may be the devs' excuse for allowing AFK macro-bots, but it is not borne out by reality. The same was true in COH... the people whose toons were standing AFK at the train station while their group mates levelled them were hardcore gamers (usually, it was one guy with 2 accounts, having grouped one of his toons with the other so he could level 2 at once). Casual gamers do not do this stuff most of the time. So this may be their excuse, but they're either lying, or they don't understand gamers.
C