Musician Archive
Thread: Idea for using music knowledge as music knowledge...
Here is my contribution to this idea.
Why not make the Mandovil and Ceremonial require both Master Entertainer and Master Musician, before you can use them. That way they can be listed as a Master Musician usable item, and it will only require a little sacrifice to get them. Heck, lets do this to the Nal as well.
I really like this idea, I think it might fly....
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer - Master Musician - Lowca
Sony isn't going to redesign how the skill system works like that. They might move things around a little bit but I wouldn't hold your breath.
A post was put on the Image Design boards for some input from an image designer, well here it is.
Personally I feel things are fine the way they are. The fact that Musicians want an instrunment that only they can play is a valid request and I see no problem with that, but the amount of extra time it takes to finish of the Entertainer part of Image Design is a joke (I did it in 1 hour). Personally, I don't really understand what Image Design has to do with entertaining people, but you are talking to a Master Entertainer / Image Designer. Who knows, you might find the extra requirements a blessing in disguise. Hair styles and color are currently going for 1K on my server and the ability to do this yourself could save you lots o' cash. Also, you may find like I did that ID is the way you want to go. I had no ambitions of being an ID but the fact that I HAD to to be a Master Ent.showed me the light!
So, to sum up, my vote (as if it counts) is for no change, except maybe making ID it's own tree and take it out of entertainer.
Od'
Having achieved Master Entertainer status (last night) on the way to Master Musician, I will be highly pissed at having wasted all that time on dancing and image design only to have it switched so that MMs without ME get the mandovil. I spent endless hours dancing in the back corner of a hotel no one uses, foregoing the entertainment healing exp I could have been earning, just because I don't want my avatar to have the reputation of being a male dancer. Yes, this may mean I have issues, but I never wanted to do any dancing in the first place. I just wanted the mandovil.
All that being said, if they do go forward with your idea or something like it so that MMs can play the mandovil without having to get ME, I'll get over being pissed after a day and be happy I can get all those WASTED dance and ID skill points. No offense Dancers and Image Designers, it's just something I never wanted a part of, but was forced to sacrifice in order to obtain an INSTRUMENT I wanted to be able to play. Who knows, if a change is implemented in what most believe to be a fair manner (IE fat reward for ME skill) I may even keep the ME status.
Anyway, for right now they haven't changed a thing and I haven't seen anything on the dev boards suggesting they are going to. So I guess all of you who want the mandovil are going to have to suck it up like I did and learn to dance. It's not pleasent, but having an instrument that makes sw1 (and most other songs) sound cool again is well worth it.
I don't want things changed, I like how they are. My "suggestion" above, can be taken as pure sarcasam. As the suggestion basicly leaves things as they are, but doesn't get rid of the Ceremonial or Mandovil from the Master Entertainer. Go do a search for all my posts. i am a rabid supported of leaving things as is and just adding to the proffesion, not redesigning it to suit the likings of some other people. I am happy playing with the way the basic system came out, I would just like to see more flourishes, more instruments, unique sounds for every instrument, a group tip option, fix some of the predominant bugs with changing songs when in groups, then I am a happy camper.
On a side note, do I feel that it is logical that a master of all instruments can not play the Mandovil? No.
Do I feel that I was cheated out of a skill points to get the Mandovil? No. Do I like the reward that was given for becoming a Master Entertainer? HELL YEAH.
If that sounds conflicting, it is not. I am a rational person and I can see where everyone is coming from, with even my logic. However, you need to look at it from this side of the table as well. What reward was there to become a Master Entertainer? In Beta, none. I am currently working on combat skills, but I could stop right now and be totally happy with my character. If it were not for the tipping / money issues we have, I would never had become a gun toting character. but to get the things I wanted in the game, I picked up the gun, and have now altered my spec plan accordingly, even with backgroud.
So I hope everyone can at least find a neutral ground, because it is not my intent to cause such an uproar.
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / Master Musician - Lowca
Cudayn wrote:
On a side note, do I feel that it is logical that a master of all instruments can not play the Mandovil? No.
It's not that big a leap. The Master Musician is not a "master of all instruments". Sampling tools and Fishing Poles are "instruments". They're just not "musical instruments". Neither is a Mando. It is an "entertainment instrument". Once you come to that understanding, you realize that this whole argument is just goofy, and the bottom line is that the Mando stays!
Bulbous2 wrote:
Cudayn wrote:
On a side note, do I feel that it is logical that a master of all instruments can not play the Mandovil? No.
It's not that big a leap. The Master Musician is not a "master of all instruments". Sampling tools and Fishing Poles are "instruments". They're just not "musical instruments". Neither is a Mando. It is an "entertainment instrument". Once you come to that understanding, you realize that this whole argument is just goofy, and the bottom line is that the Mando stays!
I'm still trying to grasp whre you made the leap that amanoviol(guitar) is not an instrument?? I can understand that a radio or a tv IS an entertainment device, but surely a mandoviol sitting on a table doesn't entertain you. The base reasoning you use makes every instrument an entertainment device, which of course is wrong.
Hijo wrote:
If master musicians are going to get every song via this idea, how would this help master entertainers whatsoever? The only thing it does for master entertainers is take away their unique abilities... I don't see that as a benefit. ;P
If you look over the top two posts you will see that I have suggested replacing the uniqueness of the instrument/song/dances with another unique ability while still allowing ME's to keep all the dances/instrument/song that they currently have. How can that not be a benefit. The only loss is that ME will not be the only one playing the mandoviol and cerimonial, which surely will increase it's usage throughout the galaxy.
I disagree with both parts of the idea as I am interpreting it, but am *vehemantly* opposed to someone with a 'conductor' title under the Music tree controlling dancers. Gaining any level of music knowledge does not mean that you know anything about dancing, the available dances, or flourishes and how they would look or mesh with a given dance. Additionally, dancers have to flo at a far different rate from musicians, so I don't even see that as logistically possible.
As for Music Knowledge, I'm confused as to how you don't see it as being Music Knowledge now?? Each level of MK through 4, I have gained a new song, and the ability to play a new instrument. That's exactly what Music Knowledge *should* be about. I can tell you honestly though that I'm quite jaded in this respect because the MK branch of music is set up FAR better than the Dance Knowledge branch of dance, so I am unsure what the complaint is as far as music goes.
And to the Mando... I am probably less than objective on that, as I have Master Ent in addition to Dance and half of music, but I like it just where it is.. by being under Master Ent, it is a less common instrument, and one that everyone adores. If I were a pure musician, I can probably agree that I would be bothered that I hit master without being able to play all songs and instruments in the game, but Dancer's are in the same boat, if less noticably so. (Granted, our dances are less important, but then again, Master Dance is a rehash of a bunch of dances we already have, as opposed to a new song and instrument as is granted at Master Dance, so that equals out a bit, imho)
Add Ceremonial/Mandivol to Master Musician and the dances to master dancer. To believe that a master should not be able to comprehend of master the complexities of ceremonial or formal2 is not realistic.
What I am saying is ADD new abilities like lighting, etc. to ME's and give the missing songs/instruments to master dancers/musicians.
And the 'bonus' or 'benefit' for Master Entertainer would be.. what exactly?
Many of us invested a great deal of time and effort in gaining skills we otherwise would not have, *specifically so that we could have the Mando*. What do you propose then is the purpose of Mastering Entertainment at all?
"Give ME more new lighting effects".. ME has NO lighting effects, that is specifically after achieving Novice in music or dance.
Incorrect. A Master Entertainer IS a master.. of basic entertainment, to include ID, healing, music and dance. If your view is that they are not, simply because you chose not to do it, that does not make it any less of a Master. Granted, it is not an Elite profession, but it did require effort and work on the part of those of us who have earned it.
As for adding it to Master Music, I apologize, but I don't feel the 'pain' of getting a new instrument AND song at Master already, while dancers get no more than a re-hash of what we already have. Which wouldn't change a bit by giving the ME dances at MD, by the way, because they're re-hashes too.