Musician Archive

i noticed and /bugged this a few times on tc, also seems to happen with western

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Panthu wrote:

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Aleyo wrote:

(I have no idea what Western "should" be, as it doesn't fit the same pattern, but it should at least presumably double the xp with the double flos).

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When this was first brought up with the Dev that worked on the quests, I pointed to the fact that a Dancer would need a fourth level Dancing XP box to be able to learn the reward dance. I think the XP turn in is the same, yes? So going by the Dancer logic you'd want to ask for it to be the same as the XP gain for the other songs in Knowledge 4. (Which had just been Jazz, right? So whatever Jazz was and what the new one that was supposed to be there should be too... jes? *blinks*)

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Well that fits even less then.

As it stands, the ability requirement to read the scroll and ability reqirement to bank the XP are completely different. If you add the ability required to equal the XP gain, you get a third box.
The box needed so you can bank the XP is not an elite level 4 box. Its only a level 1 box. I actually verified all the XP caps for all levels and they are 4x the next available box. It is still not the same as the scroll reading requirement of Novice. Also the XP is not equivilant to having Music Knowledge 4, its the same as Music 4 in Entertainer.

To summarize:

XP reward for "Western" is the same single flo as "Starwars3" or playing a Kloo horn, or equal to Music 4 in Entertainer, and does not double for doing double flos.
Skill level needed to read the scroll to learn Western is Novice Musician.
Skill level needed to bank enough XP to read the scroll to learn Western is 1xxx or xx1x Musician (having either Music Knowledge 1 or Music Tech 1).
Skill level needed to continue to play Western once the scroll has been read is Novice Entertainer.

For Dance I have verified all except the XP gain, but I recall that Theatrical is kinda low.


Fragpuppie Uber
Master Musician/Master Entertainer

Here's what I posted on the corr forum:

There are two problems:

1) Across the 3 new songs that have been given to us since launch (Western, Starwars4, Funk), none gives the double xp that normally is given when doing two flourishes per 'tick' (a tick is the time between system messages that tell you how much xp you've gotten from entertaining, and is 10 seconds long), as opposed to just one. For example, performing Starwars1 on a slitherhorn grants 2 music xp when doing one flourish per tick, or 4 music xp if you do at least two flourishes per tick. However, performing funk on a slitherhorn grants 14 music xp per tick when doing one *or* at least two flourishes per tick.

2) Starwars4 is certed at Novice Musician, but does not grant the same base xp as the instruments in Novice Musician. The normal basis for xp gain is that it is based on the highest box being used along the Musicianship->Musical Knowledge skill lines. For example, if you are playing an instrument that is certed in Musical Knowledge II, then if you are playing any song that is learned at Musical Knowledge II or below, you will get xp based on the instrument (in this case, a base of 14 xp per tick with one flourish). If you continue playing that instrument but change to a song learned at Master Musician, you will then get xp based on the song since it is higher along the knowledge skill lines (in this case, a base of 22 xp per tick with one flourish). Starwars4's xp seems to be associated with Musicianship 4, but is causing 1 xp more than normal to be granted, on all instruments except the nalargon (master level). Meaning that if played on a lower level instrument, it grants 8 xp per tick, whereas the instrument granted in Musicianship 4 grants 7 xp per tick. This also occurs if playing on instruments higher than Musicianship 4 or Novice Musician. Here is a chart that was put together by Fragpuppie, who did testing on these songs:

		SW1	SW4	Funk	Western	Virtuoso
Slitherhorn	2/4	8/8	14/14	7/7	22/44
Traz		10/20	11/11	14/14	10/10	22/44
Bandfill	14/29	15/15	14/14	14/14	22/44
Nalargon	22/44	22/22	22/22	22/22	22/44

The songs and instruments that are certed in the same box are color coded to match. The problem numbers are in red.

Solution 1: Make the 3 newer songs work like the other songs - make them properly double xp gain when performing more than one flourish per tick, and fix Starwars4's xp base to be 10/20, as befits its placement in the Novice Musician box. This would yield a table as follows:

		SW1	SW4	Funk	Western	Virtuoso
Slitherhorn	2/4	10/20	14/28	7/14	22/44
Traz		10/20	10/20	14/28	10/20	22/44
Bandfill	14/29	14/28	14/28	14/28	22/44
Nalargon	22/44	22/44	22/44	22/44	22/44

Solution 2: This one is on our wishlist in general: base our xp gain on our Musical Knowledge skillmod, so that we gain the highest xp we've 'earned' without being forced to use either the instrument or the song granted in the highest box we've learned along the Musicianship->Musical Knowledge skill lines. This would mean that if I'm a xx2x Musician, I would get a base xp of 14/28 regardless of what song I play or what instrument I use. This would make us feel more free to use instruments we love instead of using the ones that grant us highest xp (since that wouldn't be the case anymore). A common example is that many musicians learn xx4x first and then play the Ommni Box until they reach Master, since the Ommni grants the highext xp, but many players hate the Ommni Box because a) they have to keep it targetted to be able to play it, and b) other players can harrass them by stealing the Ommni Box by selecting "Play Instrument" from the radial menu, which moves the Ommni Box to that players location.

On a separate, but related issue, the new Dances are granting xp based on the wrong Dancing Knowledge boxes. This is believed to be because Tumble and Breakdance were switched in their placement on the Knowledge line sometime from when they first were on TC to when they reached Live. I don't have the numbers on dance, but the "Solution 1" equivalent would be to make Tumble grant the xp that Breakdance is currently granting, and vice versa, and to make Tumble2 grant the xp that Breakdance2 is currently granting, and vice versa. However, it has also been on dancers' wishlist to have "Solution 2" for their xp gains, so if that's a possibility, they'd love that as well, *as far as I've seen* (since I'm not the Dancer corr, I can't claim to speak for them, but it's my own observation).

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Fragpuppie wrote:

FYI I did check MORE than 2 flos in a tick, but they were still the same as single flo.

You should address Western here also if they go by mehtod 1. If they use method 2 then its moot. As I said in my reply to Panthu, it should be equal to ONE of the following...

2/4xp same as Novice Entertainer....as this is all you need to play it once learned

10/20xp same as Novice Musician...as this is where the scroll says you need to be to read it.

12/24xp same as 1xxx or xx1x Musician....as this is where you really need to be to bank the XP to read the scroll.

The xp you get from it makes NO sense.

Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra

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(They might be ok with it making NO sense, since it's there no matter what).
Anyways, I indeed will address Western - my original post got pretty large, as you can see, so I figured I'd specifically address the Western weirdness in a reply to my thread.

Scip, if you're interested, I posted some numbers on the dance XP gains as they stand right now.