Musician Archive
Thread: A little item in yesterday's patch notes...
Aiobi
Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:46 am
#14
Actually, here's a slight idea...I've been a Master Musician for quite a while, and I've done some thinking on this.
I've seen different types of AFK, from just temporarily leaving to go to the bathroom, or go to eat, to complete 24/7 Buffbots. Just about every form of it can get extremely annoying, especially with the latest tactics the AFK'ers have been using.
My idea, would be to make it so someone 'cannot' disable the AFK fuction. Set it for a timer, like, 4, 5 minute idle. Once that goes past, the character goes into AFK, at which point, all player actions become null and void, having no effect, until that player returns from AFK. That would force the people controlling the bots to stay at the terminal, so they can keep them going. And they cant use macros, as even with macros, if the computer sits idle, the AFK is still initiated.
Personally, if it was me, I wouldnt want to come on, click at my bot every few minutes, just for some credits. It would get far too annoying. Which also in turn, gives us an advantage. It could annoy them enough, where they would give up the idea completely, because it would require quite a bit of time though the day, to devote to it.
If we want to get rid of the AFK'ers, I suggest that we go right for the heart of it, and remove them with one swift stroke. If not...they will plague us at every turn, as they have for over the past year. And I dont even have to describe the suffering we've been forced to endure, because of all this. All of us already know how it is.
I hope, as both a Master Musician, and as a Entertainer of the Chilastra Galaxy, that we can put an end to all this, and finally have what we deserve most. The ability to be recognised as a higher-level Profession, and not be shunned just because of actions taken by others, as well as be able to enjoy our profession to it's fullest. That is my hope, and my wish.
I've seen different types of AFK, from just temporarily leaving to go to the bathroom, or go to eat, to complete 24/7 Buffbots. Just about every form of it can get extremely annoying, especially with the latest tactics the AFK'ers have been using.
My idea, would be to make it so someone 'cannot' disable the AFK fuction. Set it for a timer, like, 4, 5 minute idle. Once that goes past, the character goes into AFK, at which point, all player actions become null and void, having no effect, until that player returns from AFK. That would force the people controlling the bots to stay at the terminal, so they can keep them going. And they cant use macros, as even with macros, if the computer sits idle, the AFK is still initiated.
Personally, if it was me, I wouldnt want to come on, click at my bot every few minutes, just for some credits. It would get far too annoying. Which also in turn, gives us an advantage. It could annoy them enough, where they would give up the idea completely, because it would require quite a bit of time though the day, to devote to it.
If we want to get rid of the AFK'ers, I suggest that we go right for the heart of it, and remove them with one swift stroke. If not...they will plague us at every turn, as they have for over the past year. And I dont even have to describe the suffering we've been forced to endure, because of all this. All of us already know how it is.
I hope, as both a Master Musician, and as a Entertainer of the Chilastra Galaxy, that we can put an end to all this, and finally have what we deserve most. The ability to be recognised as a higher-level Profession, and not be shunned just because of actions taken by others, as well as be able to enjoy our profession to it's fullest. That is my hope, and my wish.
shadowdefender
Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:01 am
#15
I like the idea of making it so that you cannot turn off the AFK timer though I think 4 - 5 minutes is too short I would be comfortable saying after 15 minutes a person goes into AFK.
Warryyr
Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:47 am
#16
Well, the "no attack while AFK" fix won't do anything.
And neither would the same fix have done anything for us.
It's a laughable attempt at best, meant only for those who've copied and pasted their way to uber loot glory, without ever understanding how the macro system and the AFK system work.
The auto-AFK timer, even if enabled, by default needs to "listen" for what it considers an action to prevent the AFK timer from starting.
So, an /emote, or a /clap, or a /snort, will reset the auto-AFK timer. Why? Because, think about it - you're in a cantina listening to a show, watching a dancer, talking to your buddy. Sometime within that 15 minute or 4 minute or 5 minute timeframe, you're either going to: A) move your mouse or B) do an /emote or some kind of action (/smile, /nod, /shrug, /flower, whatever). Mouse movement and emotes/actions define that you're not AFK to the game system.
Otherwise, you'd walk into the cantina, stand somewhere and listen or watch someone, talk to your buddy WITHOUT doing an action or emote, just type in spatial, and I guarantee you'll drop from the world once the auto-AFK timer is up. Same thing happens to Merchants with Auto-AFK enabled, while restocking vendors. No mouse movement, no /emote or action = auto-AFK timeout. Try it sometime. Set your auto-AFK timer on, put it to like 10 minutes, then stand around and don't /emote or do an action, or move your mouse. Heck, start a macrosaying "still in the world, macroing and AFK." You will be dropped upon the timer being up.
Even if you deactivate the auto-AFK timeout feature, the default time to drop from world without mouse movement or an /emote or action is roughly 45 minutes or so. Sometimes more, sometimes less.
A macro action, as is the current manifestation of the macro system, is the equivalent of an actual, live action made by a player at the keyboard.
In other words, the command /smile in a macro is the SAME to the game as physically typing /smile on your keyboard.
This, in my opinion, is the fundamental flaw in SWG's macro system. Yes, it's robust. But, it fools ITSELF into thinking people are playing the game.
The easiest and simplest way to end AFK macroing isin the macro system, in every single macro you create, you must have the following in it, for itto function:
/startmacro
/endmacro
These two commands MUST be at the beginning of, and end of, any command(s) in your macro. Simple change to your macro to comply, right? I don't find it very time-intensive. Attempting to launch a macro without these tags results in the system message "No macro found!Put commands between the/startmacro and /endmacro command!"
Once a /macro and /endmacro pair are found, each and every single command in that macro is flagged as a MACRO command. Even a command that makes the macro repeat! Macro commands do NOT reset the auto-AFK timer. Yes, you can deactivate the auto-AFK timeout feature. There is still the 45 minute persistent auto-AFK check to kick those who are AFK'ing for extended periods of time.
Those who DO try to AFK for an extended period of time will be in-game for (at most) 45 minutes or so, then be auto-logged - that is, unless longer periods of AFK'ing are allowed, which would be easy to accumulate total AFK time if you're flagging all macro commands for what they are - AFK commands.
This will NOT IMPACT ATK macro'ers!!!! You WILL be playing your character, moving around, using a center of being macro, using a loot macro, whatever. Your actions as an active player WILL prevent you from auto-logging. The stationary, macroing AFK'er is a thing of the past.
The key is make the macro system smart enough to recognize it's own actions.
BINGO! The macro system recognizes itself, and won't reset timers when it issues it's own commands!
As for Merchants dropping from the world during restocking, I've resorted to just restocking about 50 things, then in between restocking another item, i move my cursor off of the UI windows and hold right-click for just a second or two. My character takes a step or two, and the invisible, unchangable 45 minute AFK timer resets.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 03-01-2005 09:51 AM
Bronski113
Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:04 pm
#17
I take this change as more of a statement than a real change.
Of course it doesn't solve things. But its something. Who knows, maybe next update you'll see something that applies to entertainers. Then the next patch a little more.
Its better than nothing. It also shows that someone is looking at how macros are being used to afk.
Of course it doesn't solve things. But its something. Who knows, maybe next update you'll see something that applies to entertainers. Then the next patch a little more.
Its better than nothing. It also shows that someone is looking at how macros are being used to afk.
dimmu-borgir
Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:23 pm
#18
its a start, to say the least, now, if we just push them the right way, they might start listening :/
Maisland
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:31 pm
#19
This is an excellent suggestion... and it shouldn't affect /paused commands typed into the chat box. They might even be able to have these commands automatically added to the macros made in the macro tab of the abilities and commands panel.
Warryyr wrote:
The easiest and simplest way to end AFK macroing isin the macro system, in every single macro you create, you must have the following in it, for itto function:
/startmacro
/endmacro
These two commands MUST be at the beginning of, and end of, any command(s) in your macro. Simple change to your macro to comply, right? I don't find it very time-intensive. Attempting to launch a macro without these tags results in the system message "No macro found!Put commands between the/startmacro and /endmacro command!"
Echinacea
Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:59 pm
#20
Warryyr wrote:
As for Merchants dropping from the world during restocking, I've resorted to just restocking about 50 things, then in between restocking another item, i move my cursor off of the UI windows and hold right-click for just a second or two. My character takes a step or two, and the invisible, unchangable 45 minute AFK timer resets.
I run a /maskscent macro on my Master Artisan/DE/Merchant. He still has enough Scouting to do that, and I also turn it on when I loop a sampling macro out in the wild.
Man, I hope whatever they come up with turns out better than that sampling event popup did. That's a breeze to get around.
But yeah, the problem is that anything in a macro is recognized as being the same as a typed command. That, and being able to disable AFK are two major issues I think should be addressed.
Fragpuppie
Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:18 am
#21
dimmu-borgir wrote:
its a start, to say the least, now, if we just push them the right way, they might start listening :/
Pun intended???
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Ororo
Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:23 pm
#22
"Remove the auto-AFK option.
Make a character incapable of initiating any combat when the AFK flag is up. (as it is now)
Make it such that a character stops skill animating in any capacity when the AFK flag is up for more than say 30 mintues, and the avatar sits down."
Make a character incapable of initiating any combat when the AFK flag is up. (as it is now)
Make it such that a character stops skill animating in any capacity when the AFK flag is up for more than say 30 mintues, and the avatar sits down."
This could be easier dealt with just by disabling /loop and /macro commands so that looping macros became redundant. I don't see how this would be an issue since even artisan grinding requires you to be on hand to hit ok and manage the macro anyway. I don't think it's a programming issue personally but more of a political one - this might possibly affect grinding artisans and using the dev mentality pilot>combat>artisans>npcs>water effects>entertainers. Gotta love that math.
Macroing should be there to allow a player to automate a portion of their activity so they can deal with another task at hand. Anything more, personally, I think personally should be removed. You can pretend all you want, but if you're gone for more than half an hour, you're NOT playing the game.
Macroing in this game really just shows how lazy society has become. We're so self indulgent now we can't even play our own games!
LyteFoot
Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:28 am
#23
Warryyr for your suggestion to work every packet going to the server would have to indicate if the source was user or macro. Once they have that piece of information we don't even need the start and stop command.
I don't know if SOE is considering this in their change plans. We know they state that the change is big and modifying the communications between client and server to include this piece of information would be huge so perhaps it is being considered. From a user point of view this is the simplest solution, simply that the server knows that any action came from a macro command versus user input via the user interface without any of us having to make any change what so ever. This also allows chat to be considered in the actions that reset the timer. I know I get frustrated when I've been chatting with someone and not moving then suddenly get logged off (yes sometimes I do talk too much
). The interface certainly knows you typed that /smile so it is possible to do. Then the timer would only get reset when the command or chat came from an actual input area and not a macro.
This would not stop 3rd party tools but it would certainly put people at risk because persistent AFK would HAVE to come from those tools and become banable.
I don't know if SOE is considering this in their change plans. We know they state that the change is big and modifying the communications between client and server to include this piece of information would be huge so perhaps it is being considered. From a user point of view this is the simplest solution, simply that the server knows that any action came from a macro command versus user input via the user interface without any of us having to make any change what so ever. This also allows chat to be considered in the actions that reset the timer. I know I get frustrated when I've been chatting with someone and not moving then suddenly get logged off (yes sometimes I do talk too much
). The interface certainly knows you typed that /smile so it is possible to do. Then the timer would only get reset when the command or chat came from an actual input area and not a macro.This would not stop 3rd party tools but it would certainly put people at risk because persistent AFK would HAVE to come from those tools and become banable.
Mariki
Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:40 pm
#24
It seems to me that since a combat person can't fight while afk, an entertainer should not be able to flourish.Thiswould certainly put a damper on buffbots. I do not think you are overreacting as I would think we were way before anyone with our complaints of afkers. We are lead to believe that the problem is very technical but then such a simple and easy solution is applied to combat. Meanwhile we are put through the wringer with our macro abilities seemingly put in jeopody or held for ransom. I have very little doubt that there is a simple solutionjust as obtainable for entertainers. It really really annoys me to think that perhaps our solution isn't forth coming because deep down there is some sort of affinity for buff bots.
LyteFoot
Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:09 am
#25
The fix is a non-fix. Most buf-bots don't turn on the AFK flag so even if they applied this it would have no impact. The real issue for macros is that currently the system does not differentiate the source of a command. Doing /smile from a macro or chat line are identical to the server making it easy to appear present. Changing that would be a bit technical issue.
Mariki
Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:27 am
#26
I suppose the combat ppl will be scurrying to add a /smile to their macros too