Musician Archive
Thread: SOE prefers afk macro buff bots to live players, I have a csr ticket that says so.
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Kinnison75
Tue Jul 27, 2004 7:33 pm
#14
THere are many bigs, and Devs have to decide what to fix based on importance. Sadly the more new stuff they bring in, the more bugs pop up. tho some are so minor that they are not worth fixing (i.e. Patroling droid able to patrol forever)
Now as far as thebuff bot, there should be player interaction from both sides, just like PvP is concentual, buffing should be also. The problem is that the entertainer class can be easily replaced by a Macro, and the player can go to work, mow the lawn, watch TV and do the same thing as a player that is there and interacting with other players in true RP fashion. This is a mmRPg, right?
Not to metion I really hate the bots spamming the planet and auction channels.
Now as far as thebuff bot, there should be player interaction from both sides, just like PvP is concentual, buffing should be also. The problem is that the entertainer class can be easily replaced by a Macro, and the player can go to work, mow the lawn, watch TV and do the same thing as a player that is there and interacting with other players in true RP fashion. This is a mmRPg, right?
Not to metion I really hate the bots spamming the planet and auction channels.
NewJedi
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:07 pm
#15
I agree with you, Aakhperkare; I just wish they'd abolish the recursive macro and be done with it. But they won't, it seems. And many "live" Musicians do make good use of macros.
I share Panthu's general long-term optimism that the devs will do something about buffbots. They don't like them any more than we do. But I don't see much happening before JTL.
JohnMarble
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:12 pm
#16
Hm, thanks for the word Panthu.
I cancelled, then cancelled my cancel becauseI figured with that flawed in-concept thread there might be hope. But that in-concept idea is the wrong way to go about it, I've decided. Even doing buffs in 2 minutes opposed to the bot's 5 minutes... people will still go to the bots.Time isn't enough of a motivation.The bot is always there, is framiliar, and people are creature of habit, and they are free. It kind of makes me sick on Dant to hear a guy recruiting for a solo group, shouting, "PST for invite to solo group, with free mind buffs in cantina!" I love the CSR's advice though, you can always go somewhere else. Like Wayfar. I swear, if docs were forced to share medical centers and stand next to automated buffbots handing out the service for free, this would have already been fixed. Move someplace else, what a joke.
Sothese group TEF'scan get these bots killed? I just want to start killing, but if I can get them a TEF, that's easier than rolling a squad leader.
StikerRunningfly
Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:30 pm
#17
NewJedi wrote:
I agree with you, Aakhperkare; I just wish they'd abolish the recursive macro and be done with it. But they won't, it seems. And many "live" Musicians do make good use of macros.
I share Panthu's general long-term optimism that the devs will do something about buffbots. They don't like them any more than we do. But I don't see much happening before JTL.
Well, he didn't say abolish the entire macro, just the ability to loop it. Think of it this way, if you can design a macro that will run for about 5 minutes, and you are there playing your character, it only takes pressing a single key to start your macro again if you have it placed in your toolbar. If someone is afk, they will either have to design a device that presses the key every few minutes, or just not run macros (which would greatly help if doing at least x macros will buff the player for y time). Would it be a little more work for us? Yes. Would I consider it so much of an inconvienence that it would stop me from playing my musician/dancer? No. Would it stop buffbots? Yes.
The other option (and this would help with spambots too) is removing the ability to disable auto-afk, that coupled with an automatic disconnect if a KEY is not pressed within a set amount of time (for example 30 minutes)would kill the buffbots, thus leaving the players who are actually at the keyboard.
Klayton
Master Musician/Dancer/Entertainer
Shadowfire
HalloranElder
Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:50 pm
#18
StikerRunningfly wrote:
The other option (and this would help with spambots too) is removing the ability to disable auto-afk, that coupled with an automatic disconnect if a KEY is not pressed within a set amount of time (for example 30 minutes)would kill the buffbots, thus leaving the players who are actually at the keyboard.
Another variation I heard that I like is auto-afk after 30 mins of no Keyboard or mouse movement, and automatically /dump all macro's while AFK. This means that the people who are actually at the keyboard will have no problems, but it won't adversly affect someone who is connected and has to spend time away from the game who doesn't really care about macro's.
Did that make sense? My brain hurts! 
Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:53 am
#19
Here is he problem with you afk ideas... it is not that difficult to make a program the sends a key press to the keyboard buffer every so often. And with the way windows is build SWG will not be able to se the difference between a human pressing a key and a program sending a key press.
So all a buffbots would have to do was create macro that ran for less then the afk timer... say a 1.5 min invite face, a 3.5 min music buff face, a 30 sec change to dance, a 3.5 min dance face. That 9 minutes. And the program would restart the macro every 10 minutes...
It is almost impossible to avoid 3rd party program involvement of this kind, and it will take a lot of resources to eliminate it once it have begun.
This would by the way also work if they removed recursive macro. It might make it a little bit more difficult to do, as you had to download or write a program, but anyone who is willing to pay for an extra account will also be able to get hold of such a program.
The buffbots will still be around, and we live entertainers will have lost a tool along with the rest of the player base. And a recursive macro can be used for a legitimate purpose.
The ONLY way to eliminate AFK play with out having to heavily patrol for the use of 3rd party programs, is to remove the motivation for AFK play. However that will take a lot of work.
So all a buffbots would have to do was create macro that ran for less then the afk timer... say a 1.5 min invite face, a 3.5 min music buff face, a 30 sec change to dance, a 3.5 min dance face. That 9 minutes. And the program would restart the macro every 10 minutes...
It is almost impossible to avoid 3rd party program involvement of this kind, and it will take a lot of resources to eliminate it once it have begun.
This would by the way also work if they removed recursive macro. It might make it a little bit more difficult to do, as you had to download or write a program, but anyone who is willing to pay for an extra account will also be able to get hold of such a program.
The buffbots will still be around, and we live entertainers will have lost a tool along with the rest of the player base. And a recursive macro can be used for a legitimate purpose.
The ONLY way to eliminate AFK play with out having to heavily patrol for the use of 3rd party programs, is to remove the motivation for AFK play. However that will take a lot of work.
emtfl
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:12 am
#20
Panthu wrote:
Panthu wrote:
Again, I know there is no official word yet, ...
I have seen stuff you guys haven't... I can't say what... and I don't know what the final solution will be even if I was allowed to share.
I would fear any solution for us that they didn't talk over in detail for how ever long it takes... I don't want a "flo timer" so I can only Flo using a UI and only once every 10 minutes.
I think there is some urgency to the talks now... I had not seen that before. *shrug*
I know you are sworn down and cannot speak of what is on the "Secret" forum.
But is there a way, you can push the devs to at LEAST come out and say something on the subject, maybe in the short term have CSRS remove buffbots from public area's. Being silent is not helping us, having the devs say something, anything, might just be enouigh to get people about to quit, to stick it out.
Beery
Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:57 am
#21
"I have zero faith in the DEVs doing anything anymore, we get talk but no action."
Exactly. It's like the People's Front of Judea in Monty Python'sLife of Brian. It's not like we players haven't beenproposing ways of reducing AFKers since day 1. I mean if the developers had actually done something about AFKers atany time during the past year, we wouldn't have a problem with buffbots now. But all they do is talk and talk and talk.
Talk is cheap. We need action now!
Beery
Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:12 am
#22
"Here is he problem with you afk ideas... it is not that difficult to make a program the sends a key press to the keyboard buffer every so often."
No, but that misses the point. There's always going to be some non-approved "illegal"way to beat the system, but currently there are ways to beat the system that existWITHIN the Sony ToS. A third party program is outside the ToS and anyone using one can be banned.
The developers need to accept one of the aforementioned methods of stopping AFK macroing. Personally I prefer the idea of removing players' ability to disable the auto-AFK feature and auto-booting after 30 minutes. It won't stop all abuse - nothing can do that - but it will prevent casual gamers from switching on a buffbot, which is the problem right now. These players comprise 100% of all buffbots. If we had a way to stop AFK macroing it would force 99% of those buffbot-usingplayers to actually play the game. Maybe 1% would buy a 3rd party program which would allow him to run a buffbot, and we can easily deal with that player when it happens - by reporting him for a ToS violation.
Let's not throw out good ideas that will automaticallystop 99% of abusessimply because it's impossible to stop allabuse. Ifthe developers refuse to move on this for fear of encouraging 1% ofplayers touse 3rd party macroprograms, they're acting stupidly. Fartoo manyentertainers have already cancelled their accounts through the developers' inaction. If things continueas they are, far more players (entertainers)will be be lost to this game due to developer apathy thanwould be lost due to griefers beingbanned forToS violations.
Message Edited by Beery on 07-28-2004 08:22 AM
Ravanne_Esi
Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:16 am
#23
Disable turning off auto-AFK, when you go AFK the gamedumps all macros and disables mouse and keystrokes until the player types in a randomly assigned key in a dialog box like the destroy structure safeguard. It would stop use of in-game tools for AFK buffboting and also prevent use of external programs or devices to bypass it. It's simple, it will work and is only a minor inconvienience to someone who legitimately had to go AFK.
This will allow the use of recursive macros but will prevent the use of them to play for extended periods AFK.
Amythen
Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:07 am
#24
The arguement that players will just start using 3rd party macro programs is a moot one, and I'll tell you why; It is too easy for a player to tell if is someone is AFK. A player would then be able to report the said AFKer to a CSR and the CSR would take care of the problem properly. No resources would really be spent on patrolling for the buffbots. This would at least force buffbots into being more reclusive, and probably out of our way.
More imprtantly, if SOE we would just put out astatement that AFK entertainer buffbots are a form of griefing entertainers that really want to play an entertainer, would be able to facilitate this as well, without any programing needed. The live entertainers would then become the police of their own profession. I trust my fellow live entertainers to do the right thing when it comes to reporting the griefers. We all know full well, that if we started making false reports, that we would only be hurting our own favored profession. If we make accurate reports of who the habitual AFK macrotainers are, then we will be able to take back the public cantinas for sure.
After that, if the development team fixed the registration bugs with player cantinas, we would also be able to direct our attention to locations that are lacking our services, and be able to direct the people that need them, to where they need to go.
It really is that simple. Many, many more things would come from this. Its really the simplest way to deal with the entertainers' number one issue.
StikerRunningfly
Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:03 pm
#25
Ravanne_Esi wrote:
Disable turning off auto-AFK, when you go AFK the gamedumps all macros and disables mouse and keystrokes until the player types in a randomly assigned key in a dialog box like the destroy structure safeguard. It would stop use of in-game tools for AFK buffboting and also prevent use of external programs or devices to bypass it. It's simple, it will work and is only a minor inconvienience to someone who legitimately had to go AFK.
This will allow the use of recursive macros but will prevent the use of them to play for extended periods AFK.
/cheer
This would work, yes?
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