Musician Archive

Welp, Floyd, it's a touchy subject. Having played for about the past week straight (getting Musician back after I dropped it for Bio-Engineering ...what a mistake that was!) with some folks going after that FSCS, some are great, but with some the sole contribution they make to the group is quantity, and "sum1 trn mk3 plz" (that's Musical Knowledge 3). If I may suggest:

1. Check out this thread on the Entertainer forum: Entertainment for the Aspiring Jedi


2. When you go AFK, please put the tag up so we know not to ask you for training, try to engage you in conversation, etc. Please let the leader/whole band know, and about how long you plan to be AFK if it's only for a couple mintues


3. If you're going AFK, please don't hog the center of the floor in front of the entrance steps. If you go over to the side to the corner without the table, under the arches of the alcoves, or in the alcoves themselves we can still see you, but the live performers will get the patrons' attention when they come in


4. For goddess' sake, if you're going to macro, write a decent one! Put in a /join, put in time for you to sit and rest up your action when there aren't medics around, include more than one flourish type...put a tiny bit of effort into not putting time into the profession


5. Do not macro any text for /say, /shout, /yell or any out-loud text, especiallysomething that beg for tips or healing. That's just tacky and pathetic


6. Dress appropriately. You may think it's funny to wear pink hotpants (as a male entertainer) but for those of us who have to look at it while you're AFK, it was only funny to us for about 10 seconds...and then you went AFK. As I saw someone comment once...it's like smoking -- worse for those around than the one who does it

When there are live performers asking to join and the leader asks for a roll call, and you don't answer, you're probably going to get booted from the group. Don't have a cow, just try to understand that we have more sympathy for the person who's going to be there for us, as we're there for them, than for someone who's not. That's why you put in /join, so that when the place dies down a little, you can be added back in.

When you're going to be at your keyboard (or ATK, as some folks call it), I recommend using a macro that really burns through your Action. Go get a Stamina enhancement from a Doctor (not necessarily Master, but if you can find one....) as that's all you really need, and you can double-flourish your tush off without worryinig about stopping. Not a good idea if you're going to be AFK for more than an hour or so, though, as you could run out of the buff, then your Action, and end up being about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. That kind of macro is also good if there's an active Medic healing.

You're going to come across folks who really hate it when performers AFK macro. Some are militant. As with any fanatic, it's really best to just take them with a grain of salt and ignore them as much as you can. The thing that really chaps my bum is when folks like that...go AFK for an hour! But then,I hate double-standards. I AFK macro at times and thus don't really have a problem with others doing it...as long as they put a little thought into it and do it well. It would be nice if you stayed at your keyboard and talked to us...believe me, we get as bored as you do standing there not doing much. Thing is, most entertainers who actually wanted to entertain try to fix the problem by interracting with their bandmates and patrons. Try it. You might have a little fun along the way.

I think another reason this bothers people that have chosen to be entertainers is this:

We have not had any attention paid to us by the developers. We have no way to make a decent income without having a backup profession. The entertainer mission terminals are an outright joke. A payout of 140cr for a gig that is 7500m away is insane. Our buffing system is broken. We do not get any clear indication that our buff has applied successfully. The buffs are still a bit buggy too, though not to the extreme that they once were. We have instruments that can be "stolen" from under our fingers and behinds as we play them.

Now add to this the glut of Holotainers (there are nice ones, sorry for the blanket statement), and it becomes clear. The devs to not believe we are integral to the game. We are an afterthought. Heck, I own 2 cantinas, and my guild as a whole owns 8 right now. If it weren't for our secondary jobs (I am also master marksman), we wouldn't be able to afford the darned things. We are far too dependant on players with enough good will to tip generously.

I agree Duck..

This was just one of many things lately that are bothering me about being a musician.. I came to SWG to get away from the "hack & slash" grind of EQ.. I wanted to become a member of a online society in a passive non-combative way in which SOE told us was possible.. Not saying this applys to everyone, but MORE then 50% of all true elite entertainers that arent' Macrotainers, are unable to afford a Cantina, House and some of the extra perks we all thought were possible.. Tips are droppingwith each nerf and moneysink SOE impliments.. Missions for elite entertainers are one of the purest and most visable injustices I have ever seen in the game.. The only missions that are worse are "delivery" missions..

Something needs to be done to detor AFK'ers.. I see the importance of allowing it, especially for those player cities in which an AFK entertainer supplys a service to the community at large.. However, to use this form of Macro AFK'ing to gain experience is wrong.. Why not make it so that if you are "AFK" you experience skills are turned OFF.. YES, you can still AFK to suppy a service to others in a potential ghost town, but you will not receive 1 point of experience in the process

/looks in mirror

/pukes

Tarot:

Thank you for the kind and well thought-out post on the issue of AFK Holotaining. I will be sure to take your tips to heart and attempt to be an active member of the band!

That being said: wud u trn mkIII 4 me?

Wonderfully said Tarot.

I am a *real* enertainer. I read a lot on these forums, but try not to comment, or have an opinion, mine often are in haste and negative, unconstructive. So i simply do not respond. Good attitude I think for a big Wookiee =). I am 9k away from maxing my musical healing xp =). Still have a bunch of Tech to go through, but only 100k from becoming a Composer. Oh and have become a master enertainer. Personally I think any musician or dancer worth there salt should seperate themselves form the Holotainers by whipping out their mando and showing to others "Hey, I'm really an enertainer." The Mando in my opinion is like our *secret handshake* =).

I am of the mind that though true there are *real* musicians out there who never craft, another sign of the musician who is for real is for one who at a moments notice can craft any instrument, not simply because you have the skill, but because you have the right tools, the right items on you to make said item, and so on and so forth. Do I plan on being a *troupeleader*? Indeed. Will I stand for Holotainers? Sure, Ill abide them, but if your flesh. If you do pyro's, /emote's. and /say's, /shout's, whatevam and are Afk:auto-response. Seeya! I will disband you, taking less xp, and the people I will surround myself with, will hopefully respect that. The flipside? When you come to a cantina my band is in, you WILL enjoy yourself. It is true, people will fly to any planet to get the right healing, well any planet where a round trip is less than 2k credits....and they do enjoy the show, the pyro's, the comraderie, and I think most classes out there will fly to the cantina that has the real enertainers, the real people that have macro's (nobody types out /flo 2 or whateva, but they do *compose* there flourishes with pride. I always see it, People will stay an extra five minutes to watch the nalargon, the slitherhorn, the bandfill, omnii box, and Chidinkalu (there is an instrument where if the Enertainer can spell it, he isn't a Holotainer =) ), the pyrotechnics, the laughing and welcoming emotes where you actually have to target people......all to get healed, rather than /listen to the groups where they get healed in 4 minutes but everyone is playing a kloo.....and all are /flo 1-8, /pause 50'ing....and most importantly, people leave remembering that, and they leave talking. They come back with more money in pockets because the enertainers will KNOW (hence not afk) that you left without tipping). But most importantly, at least to me, the folks of the Galaxies will leave with a smile, after all, we are Enertainers, no?

Nikiro the Wookiee. Master Enertainer, Novice Image Designer, Skilled Dancer and **edit** near a Composer =).

I would like to note that my other toon is mastering musician by choice not by holocron.

True entertainers need to understand that holo musicians are here to stay. There is a simple solution. Don't use the public/game city cantinas. Find a player city that needs a cantina and if you master slap one down. I have been in plenty of cities where the citizens are begging and giving away the structures to entice a master musician to thier city. In your cantina you simply say AFK no-way. Or for those not master'd yet find somone like this who has a cantina and form a band.

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DogWelder wrote:

I'm one of those "Holocron Musicians," and I'll tell you it hasn't exactly been a picnic for me, either. First of all, I have been at my keyboard for most of it. 2nd of all, I've already done musician with an alternate character, so, yes, I'm doing a profession for the 2nd time. I think in my case it's okay to macro.

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It's always okay to macro. It's going AFK when you do it that is the problem. And IMO, there is never a time when it is okay. Would you say someone who mastered Droid Engineer then dropped it would be justified in duping a bunch of resources to master DE again? (Alright, I know it's not quite the same as duping is a EULA violation and will get you banned whereas going AFK and using the in-game macro system isn't, but I'm trying to make a point here.)

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1) EVERY entertainer at some point that I have seen has gone /afk for extended periods of time. If you claim you haven't you are a rare exception to this rule.

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I was about ready to really tear into you when reading this, expecting that sentence to say the usual "If you claim you haven't, you are a liar" or soemthing similar. That said, it used to be the other way around, that people that were AFK most the time were the exception, not the rule. It was more fun then. However, I do know quite a few musicians and dancers who never go AFK. They are the regular entertainers at my cantina. I don't require them to be there. I didn't even ask them to be there. Heck, I didn't even know some of them before they showed up. But AFAIK my cantina is the only place they play anymore. And I know for a FACT that none of them spend time AFK. How do I know this? Cause they know that if I or any of the other militia members ever catch them performing while AFK, they will be dealing with clothing decay and a run back. Given this limitation, I have not had a shortage of people to perform. Sure, they may be end up a little hurting for healing xp, but I suspect that it won't matter as much because they will be having fun.

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Given #2 and #3, it really sounds like I'm the least of this classes' problems, though I've seen plenty of bad Holocron Entertainers around. You can blame us for some of the entertainer class problems, but we're only a small part of the bigger picture.

I like this class and my alternate character is still a musician (probably won't log that character on for awhile after this though).

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I don't blame holocron entertainers for anything, to be honest. The problem existed before the holocrons came about, and was pretty much just as bad. While I agree people like you aren't as bad as some, the game has no way to distinguish between the person being respectful and the person standing in the entrance to the cantina spamming every few minutes. (I've yet to se someone make a suggestion to do so that wouldn't cripple regular macros used by ATK people and wouldn't be easy to work around)

I've taken a stand against AFK since early on. I haven't been quite as vocal as I used to be, but I'm finding other ways. That said, starting this Friday when the city I'm in gets a shuttleport, I'm going to be all over the place encouraging people to come to the cantina where AFK is not permitted. And I look forward to DBing the first person that tries to set a macro for the day.

Tiaga,

I honestly don't like the /afk thing either. Like I may have mentioned, my alternate character is a Musician and I was at the keyboard for every point of XP I gathered on that toon (save for bio-breaks). This is a severe problem with the profession but my point is that it should not be lumped squarely on the holotainers.

I've done the /afk macroing thing this time around, and it honestly goes against everything I believe about games like this. MOST of the time I'm at the keyboard and having a good time with the few non-afk entertainers and the patrons. Maybe this makes me a hypocrite, to a degree, but I'm looking forward to advancing my alternate character again once this whole jedi thing gets taken care of.

I'm also using my time in these groups to discourage poor behavior by the "serious" musicians and dancers that I've seen.

For example: the spam every 10 seconds asking for tips and heals. I asked a person in the group to please remove that from the macro, and then explained to her that as an outsider looking in, that's a sure way to NOT get a tip from people. For the record, I have never tipped an entertainer if they were /afk (including whether or not they have the tag on over their head), and I have never tipped an entertainer who asked for a tip.

Tried to explain this to a 2nd person on another night (this guy had his /afk tag over his head on top of things) and got cursed out for it (after which I booted him from the group and put him on /ignore -- it was fun watching the other entertainers lay into this clod).

Another Holo-tainer showed up in Coronet and I was leading the "waiting list group." He had questions about the profession and we tried to help him through them. When he asked "So, do flourishes do anything besides make you look stupid," I had to explain that some of the entertainers rightfully take this very seriously and he should refrain from calling it "stupid," lest he end up ostracized from his groups and easier XP. He moved up to the big group before I did, and when I got there he was having actually having a good time, so I think he was surprised and how fun a "stupid" profession could be.

One last thing to keep in mind -- these holo-tainers are probably people who have very little understanding of the entertainment professions and about how little respect entertainers receive (I encourage anybody to try his profession just to see how maligned it is). Maybe instead of casting aspersions and hatred to them (you didn't, but many others have), trying to help them along will encourage some of them to learn about the profession, and you might find they gain some respect for what you do. (Of course, the person in question might be a jerkwad, too. With people being people and all.)