Musician Archive
Thread: From your Correspondent: inviting suggestions on AFK'ing
True, and that would keep me and many others from doing it. But not everyone. Again, you'll still have them out there, so making AFK penalties doesn't accomplish your goal.
Well, if it keeps 90% from doing it, and another 5% get caught, that would bring me 95% closer to my goal 
Do you think they should add the ability for medics/doctors to be able to macro healing so you can always find someone? (Actually that's possible) Should they allow smugglers to macro slicing so they are always available? What about macrod creature handlers to train pets for you?
See where I'm going with this? Where do you draw the line? What makes entertainers so special that they have to be around at all hours of the day in every single cantina so you can get your fix?
AFK macro is ruining the entertainer profession.
Risenstar gave me permission to say that! He said, "My apologies if I offend anyone, but until you can say you Played Entertainer through to Master Dancer or Musician and never use a macro once you cannot say that AFK macro is ruining anything. 80% of the players in this game will agree to this." I'm master entertainer, master dancer and 3-4-4-2 musician, all of the musician and dancer skill tree spent entirely at the keyboards and hitting every single flourish by hand, and enjoying every minute of it, thankyouverymuch. Did use a macro briefly to get dancing II III and IV in the entertainer skill tree, but it was not even a looping macro, and I wasn't AFK. However the musician branch of the entertainer skill tree I didn't use any macros for.
I am a master Musician/entertainer on my server. I leveled my character up without afking. I sat there at the keyboard and learned to interact with all the people that came in. It was a lot of fun and made a lot of friends that way. I love the abilitity to macro since I also spent a lot of time putting together my own song combinations and use those macros for given songs. However, I am still at the keyboard when I use those. I appreciate the abilitity to use these since I am usually then busy adding just the right visual effect to the song and visiting with patrons who come in. I love to entertain and I love using the music. When people started going afk and setting up in the cantina I was in, people became outraged. lol I think I got more tips because they wanted to encourage me to stay there and run the afker out. The biggest complaint that most people had was the constant begging for tips from the afk person. When I have visited other cantinas in other towns and planets, this has continued to be the main problem. People don't like to tip when they feel like there has been no effort to try to earn their money. The last thing they then want is those people shouting out to not forget to tip. As a live musician...I feel like they don't deserve the tips. I have put so much effort in learning people's favorite songs, instruments, putting together various melodies for each song, changing out instruments in a group to add variety to a song (especially if helping out a new musician that can only play a song or two in order to keep the sound somewhat varied and fresh). When I walk into a cantina, I never feel threatened by the afkers as far as tips go. I know how to work the crowd and get people's attention and truley entertain them. I don't need the exp since I am mastered, but I do need the money since this is my main source of income. I have learned most will tip me instead of the afk person.
I don't think it really can be changed as far as their begging for tips go, because the /say command needs to stay in as it is much easier for me to hit a button to sing one of my songs than type it out over and over again. However, I really would love to have added flourishes, songs, oradded effects. Is there possiblya way to track if a person is live by keystrokes or changing of instruments. I am not aware of a way to equip different instruments unless the ui action command can be used to equip them. (which I would think would take a lot of work to change out all the different instruments.) I also stop a lot to craft an instrument, train someone, move to a new spot for a better group look, buff people who ask, use my emotes to /welcome people in and say /bye. These are things that can only be done by a live person since they have to target the person or stop and click all the boxes for crafting/training.If there were some hidden exp thing where only those who were acting live could get it and then earn the special reward, maybe that would help.
A Modest Proposal
I have read--and written so many of these posts against the evils of macrotaining, but I haven't yet seen a truly acceptable solution. Here are a couple of the best solutions I've heard.
„« Make it so tips have to be manually accepted like group invitations--tips expire after several seconds.
„« Make it so when someone goes AFK, he/she stops getting XP.
These two "solutions" are easily resolved, the first by creating an /accept macro, and the second by removing the AFK timer or even setting a sensitive mouse on a slightly inclined surface so it is always moving, thus making the avatar active at all times.
Now, while I do not agree with 100% macrotaining, I know that for some people, it is unavoidable, they sometimes have to be AFK, but don¡|t necessarily want to be. While I take pride in the fact that my entertainer character, Liloman, doesn¡|t use any sort of macroing for entertaining (I type in every flourish, word, and effect personally), I do not think everyone should be bound to this. Therefore, I propose that we do not PUNISH the AFK entertainers. Instead, we should find a way to REWARD those musicians who actually CARE about their customers. Here are some of the perks I can think of:
„« XP Bonuses
„« New songs
„« New instruments
„« New flourishes
„« New effects
„« Better buffing power
And here are some ways I can think of to earn these (some of these suggestions are based on the idea that CSR¡|s may need to be present for this to happen):
„« Intensive training sessions where several hours must be spent total in order to pick up the perk, interaction with the trainer is REQUIRED, sometimes specific flourishes are called for, etc. (The time would be cumulative so that everyone who is interested in their entertaining skill could get the perk, not just the hard-core gamers.)
„« CSR¡|s actually spend time in cantinas, hotels, and theaters and then give these bonuses to the entertainers who most regularly are actually interacting with their audiences.
„« Missions for entertainers, we get missions from a terminal that actually pay and then we have to go entertain in a certain location and in time someone will approach us and offer us a way to get a new skill, or we need to go places and gather components and materials so we can craft a new type of instrument. (This has the added benefit of improving our missions in general.)
Well, that is my proposal. Let me know what you think of it. I know that in time, the AFK macrotainers will find ways to make all of these perks valueless, but I think this has the potential to work for a long while.
Liloman Hammons
Be sure to join us at the Drunken Tusken in downtown Mos Elsewhere, Tatooine--Bria Galaxy
Heh...I noticed all the wierd-looking things like "CSRl's" after I posted. Sorry about that, I guess copying and pasting from Word doesn't work as well as I'd hoped. 8-(
Lilo
One way to remove the AFK factor would be to modify the idle detection routines so macro'ed commands aren't detected as input. That way, after five or ten minutes, the AFKer disappears. Or just modify the Auto-AFK detector the same way... and then implement the no XP for AFKers mentioned.
Also, holocroners should know... the whole point of how they set up the path to force sensitvity is for it to be difficult to reach Jedihood! They're testing your ability to persevere through the five (four hinted, one hidden) professional requirements and to interact with other players. If you're set on having a Jedi and don't want to interact with other players, go buy Jedi Academy. There's plenty of Jediness in that game.
When I am on, I truly do entertaining and interaction. However, ask the combat profession what they think about the AFK entertainers, before doing anything drastic to them. I do it because I have been asked by them to do it. If someone live comes in the cantina, then the BH's will listen to them. The BH's even tip me extra for being AFK, especially on the weekends.
So before judging my standards of play, consider who my customers are, and what their needs are.
So before judging my standards of play, consider who my customers are, and what their needs are.
Your clientél is looking for the easiest way to get rid of BF and wounds. If there was a cheat, some would use it. I wonder how your customers managed to get to BH in the first place, considering the fact that after release only a very few people macrotained. Maybe macrotaining is not the only solution ?
I don't judge your standards of play. I judge your standards of your macroing while you don't play.
Allow me to reply to this tough issue....
I reached master entertainer with no AFK macro at all. I am now 60k from being a master musician and have (to my shame) spent several nights AFK to help with my healing exp. I am "live" for about 11 hours a day, entertaining, training, giving away free instruments for those who need them, etc.
I am not an evil person who does not like the profession - I am just someone who has noticed a distinct lack of healing exp in the past few weeks and have taken this action as I am actually asleep when all the action takes place.
I really hate the fact that I have been "forced" to AFK because of the knock-on effect of the clone/decay changes - I am also not seeking to use that as a justification. Many of the posters to this thread are already MM and may not actually have seen the effect of the change as they no longer need the rare healing experience.
Anyway I've decided that it is just not worth it - to AFK I mean. However my little bit of concience will not outweigh those who habitually AFK (and even ask for money). I'll not take the moral high ground (like others have here). I'll not kick them from the group unless there is a live performer wanting in and no spare slots.
SOE needs to amend their rules - currently they clearly state that to macro whilst AFK is OK. Change that one phrase and that will have more impact than changing the who skill gain process.
LadyGrey wrote:
You can bet that the architect and the weaponsmith who built the gun and house used macros to get to where they could make those items for you.
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I happen to be a master merchant on Lowca, so I deal with large numbers of crafters of all types on a regular basis. We roleplay together, and have become quite good friends. I happen to know that the only AFKmacroing these fine people do is the mining, a mindless repetitive task which is normallydone in the middle of nowhere with no one around.
My Starsider character is a master artison, and master medic. I nevergo AFK to craft my wares, and none of my numerous crafting buddies on Starsider do either. I am just not seeing your point here--the wide majority of crafters I know ply their trade live. After all, if it is not fulfilling enough to stay at the keyboard, then you probably don't want to be in the profession.
Now, back to LadyGrey's other comments. I understand your idea that these patrons like what your macro does for them, but they would probably be much happier if you were actually live and could interact with them. (Maybe your tips would shoot up from 3000 to 30000.) Besides, unless you are constantly changingthe remarks in the macro, it won't take more than one one or two comments to the macro before these people realize that they are talking to a puppet. I submit that your audience would be much happier if you made your own, personal wise-ass remarks up on the spot.
And just to remind you, read above--I am not in favor of getting rid of AFK macrotainers, I am in favor of making those of us who care enough to stay ATK even more desireable and in-command than we already are.
Just to illustrate the point, how many of your BH friends would /tell or email you if you went on to anothertown and another musician stepped in for you at Kaadara? Since all these guys probably care about is getting healed, they probably wouldn't follow you. However, when I started playing at the Drunken Tuskenin Mos Elsewhere on Tatooine, I received manyemails of concern and /tells of complaintfrom my customers who were used to seeing me at The Fallen Star in Mos Entha. I ended up sending E-mails to my regular clientele so they could find me again and join me at the Drunken Tusken.
-Lilo
Join me at the Drunken Tusken in downtown Mos Elsewhere, Tatooine--Bria Galaxy
Kilogram, let me ask you this...
Do you think they should add the ability for medics/doctors to be able to macro healing so you can always find someone? (Actually that's possible) Should they allow smugglers to macro slicing so they are always available? What about macrod creature handlers to train pets for you?
See where I'm going with this? Where do you draw the line? What makes entertainers so special that they have to be around at all hours of the day in every single cantina so you can get your fix?
Sorry I'm so late getting back to this...
I think that's a valid point. Why should entertainers be any different from any other class?
Here's why - I can take novice medic and heal myself. If I learn to slice I canslice my own items. I can learn to be a creature handler and train my own pets. But I can't take novice musician and cure my own battle fatigue.
I'd like to make one last point in this thread, because it looks to me like we're basically at an impasse - those who are anti-afk macroing will never change their minds, and those who aren't most likely won't either.
I do both.
Stop in the Coronet Cantina on Sunrunner and ask some of the musicians who their favorite entertainers are. I'm guessing one or two will mention Got'nee. That's me. When I am at the keyboard, I do what many entertainers, even those who are ATK never do - I entertain. I talk to the crowd. I crack jokes. I sing songs. I've even organized the musicians in the entertainer group in one spot, written up an introduction for each one, and then given those introductions, complete with music solos and effects. When I am at the keyboard, I love being an entertainer, and I think I do it very well.
I also volunteer to lead groups when I am ATK. And I'm merciless towards AFK entertainers when I lead groups. I do a role call every 10 minutes or so, and those who don't respond start getting PSTs from me. And if they don't respond, then I kick them out of the group and invite someone new in. Some of them have complained, vigorously. I tell them if they want to be AFK while we're all trying to entertain they should go in the back room and be solo. Bands are for LIVE entertainers, not robots.
But I also work long hours, and during those long hours I have no problem tucking myself in a back room of the local cantina and afk macroing. In fact, it's part of the reason that I chose musician as my profession. Because I've been playing since Day 1 of release and I have yet to master even 1 elite profession, because I only have about 10 hours a week where I can actually sit at the keyboard and play.
I understand why those of you who hate macrotainers do so. When I'm live, I feel the same about them. I don't want them in my group, and I don't want them in my cantina.