Musician Archive
Thread: With the massive problem of AFK ents, I bring the faithful ATK Entertainers an idea...
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BuzzBot
Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:47 pm
#1
This was also posted on the Dancer forums, and since it also affects you guys heavily, I thought I'd post it here, too.
Make it so when you put your AFK tag up, you get booted in X minutes. The X could be 10 minutes, 1 hour, 20 minutes half an hour, whatever's reasonable. Of course, what do you do about AFK'ers who don't have their tag up and have a macro running to make sure they don't get booted. How about if the game detects the same emote produced X times over X amount of time it would boot you. Say the macro said "POOR DNCER NEED MONEY PLZ TIP" every 2 minutes; The game would detect this emote happening every two minutes and if that happens for, say, 10 minutes, then they get booted. That might not be so simple, but the one with the AFK tag's timer on it would be fairly simple to program, one would think.
So, what do you think?
Message Edited by BuzzBot on 08-27-2005 07:48 PM
Chessack
Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:59 pm
#2
We have been asking for an end to AFK rewards for our profession for 2 years. It is just not in the cards.
Doesn't mean we can't still ask I guess, but many of us have give up on anything being done about AFKing.
C
Doesn't mean we can't still ask I guess, but many of us have give up on anything being done about AFKing.
C
BuzzBot
Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:03 pm
#3
Having been a Dancer for quite a while myself, I sympathyze with you guys very much, and I thought I'd throw an idea out there. *sigh* It's sad to see what it's come to. I tip every ATK entertainer for every time I inspire. I also try to make friendly conversation to make it a little more interesting. I'd like to think of me tipping them for being entertained, not for the buff only.
HUGE thumbs up to all of you who have stuck it through all this crap!
Laleela
Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:06 am
#4
Here's an idea....how about they make it fun to be at the keyboard? Face it, it's not right now. Yes, I have a dancer with a macro on when I play my other toon. Yes, sometimes she's "afk". Why all the hate towards this? Am I not paying the samn thing YOU are paying to play the game? Is she not providing a service to players? Which I may add, 95% do not pay a single credit. which IMO is made worse by all the "holier than thou" entertainers who claim to be at the keyboard faithfully spinning about and chatting about clothes. She does not make money, so don't even go there. Her macro does not spam crap like "plz help me, a poour dancer". Here's what boggles the mind. The average combat player base has animosity towards entertainers that are afk. what they dont realize is if there were no AFK dancers, the profession would not exist......don't BS me you know it's true. NOBODY can sit at the keyboard for long watching their toon spin around. But the animosity from within the profession is ubelievable. If anyone should understand that the disgruntlement should be aimed at not the players who are AFK but the devs, it'syou guys. Why hate the player? The profession is broken. It's not the player's fault.
SlickRiptide
Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:53 am
#5
Laleela wrote:
The average combat player base has animosity towards entertainers that are afk. what they dont realize is if there were no AFK dancers, the profession would not exist......don't BS me you know it's true. NOBODY can sit at the keyboard for long watching their toon spin around. But the animosity from within the profession is ubelievable. If anyone should understand that the disgruntlement should be aimed at not the players who are AFK but the devs, it'syou guys. Why hate the player? The profession is broken. It's not the player's fault.
Friend, you just invited a flamefest, so I can only hope you really are just misguided and not a troll in disguise. This is absolutely the wrong forum to walk into and say "Come on, you guys are full of crap, nobody would actually do this, you KNOW it's true..." Maybe YOUwouldn't do it. It just so happens that the vast marjority of entertainers aren't YOU, and a good thing by the sound of it. And"don't BS me, you know it's true"? Nice open mind there. I won't waste your time or mine with any "BS"; just consider that MAYBE there are some people in this game who have different tastes than you do, eh?
As for AFK, I've been an entertainer (with breaks) since Beta; I've been a correspondent. I was around during the height of the holocron grinding (which you clearly were not). I feel quite qualified to state that the ability to play this profession AFK is exactly what's ruined the game for everyone who wants to play at the keyboard, and caused the other players to look down on our professions as something unworthy of the respect that they feel their own professions deserve. Saying "I pay the same as you, why shouldn't I "play" the way I want?" won't get you any sympathy here. None of us consider that to be "playing" the game.
Laleela
Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:36 am
#6
SlickRiptide wrote:
Laleela wrote:
The average combat player base has animosity towards entertainers that are afk. what they dont realize is if there were no AFK dancers, the profession would not exist......don't BS me you know it's true. NOBODY can sit at the keyboard for long watching their toon spin around. But the animosity from within the profession is ubelievable. If anyone should understand that the disgruntlement should be aimed at not the players who are AFK but the devs, it'syou guys. Why hate the player? The profession is broken. It's not the player's fault.
Friend, you just invited a flamefest, so I can only hope you really are just misguided and not a troll in disguise. This is absolutely the wrong forum to walk into and say "Come on, you guys are full of crap, nobody would actually do this, you KNOW it's true..." Maybe YOUwouldn't do it. It just so happens that the vast marjority of entertainers aren't YOU, and a good thing by the sound of it. And"don't BS me, you know it's true"? Nice open mind there. I won't waste your time or mine with any "BS"; just consider that MAYBE there are some people in this game who have different tastes than you do, eh?
As for AFK, I've been an entertainer (with breaks) since Beta; I've been a correspondent. I was around during the height of the holocron grinding (which you clearly were not). I feel quite qualified to state that the ability to play this profession AFK is exactly what's ruined the game for everyone who wants to play at the keyboard, and caused the other players to look down on our professions as something unworthy of the respect that they feel their own professions deserve. Saying "I pay the same as you, why shouldn't I "play" the way I want?" won't get you any sympathy here. None of us consider that to be "playing" the game.
#1. I'm not looking for sympathy.
#2. How can you honestly tell me, that the majority of players that play entertainers are at the keyboards at all times? Come on. My dancer is in the cantina with 6 other master entertainer professions right now in my group and NOBODY is at the keyboard. 5 of them are masters. 1 working on it. My dancer is there every day. It's always like that. Sporadic people will pop in here and there, but for 90% of the time nobody is at the keyboard. how can you say the majority of the entertainer profession is always there, having fun?
#3. You didnt read my post. I'm not defending or complaining about AFK entertainers, I'm complaining about how the profession was designed. I'm not inviting a flame fest, because I couldn't care less. What I'm saying is, the profession to most people is not fun. If you find it fun great, but you can't tell me you are not a minority. And not tipping, or giving an afk entertainer verbal abuse because she is afk is anti-proactive. All it does, is reduce the already dwindling population of entertainers.
#4. As for you wanting respect for the profession, that's comendable, but again you are barking up the wrong tree. The combat population doesn't respect entertainers, because they've become next to worthless to them. Removing mind wounds and battle fatigue was the worst thing they could possibly do to this proff. It's not due to afk people.
You need to focus your anger towards the developers of this game, and the guy responsible for the state of the entertainer profession as it is, not towards people with afkentertainers, having fun elsewhere. After all, it's a game, it's fun right? Not with this proff.
Panthu
Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:58 am
#7
I agree that there are not enough activities for Ents while leveling so that leads to many people who do enjoy what the profs offer at Master feeling encouraged to leave their avs AFK to get to that point.
I also agree that there are not enough fun activities once you do reach Master, but there is no point in Entertaining once you hit Master unless you are enjoying it. There is no reward nor encouragement for AFKing at Master, it does not create fun content for yourself or others.
I am not having any more fun than an AFK Master when I decide to sit my Av down to go AFK. I am not having less fun than an AFK Master either. Neither one of us is having any fun at all with our Ent skills, because we are not playing the game at that time. I just decide to be mindful of my fellow Ents' feelings and the AFK Ent does not.
If your only desire really is for more content for Entertainer, then there is no reason to get into AFK/ATK debates at all. You can just post in the threads supporting content additions. That is an active thing you can do to try to help improve the situation.
SlickRiptide
Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:49 am
#8
Laleela wrote:
#1. I'm not looking for sympathy.
Nobody said you were.
#2. How can you honestly tell me, that the majority of players that play entertainers are at the keyboards at all times? Come on. My dancer is in the cantina with 6 other master entertainer professions right now in my group and NOBODY is at the keyboard. 5 of them are masters. 1 working on it. My dancer is there every day. It's always like that. Sporadic people will pop in here and there, but for 90% of the time nobody is at the keyboard. how can you say the majority of the entertainer profession is always there, having fun?
It seems that YOU didn't read MY post. I didn't say "the majority are at their keyboard at all times". I said "the AFK bots are what drove away the live entertainers".
If you find it fun great, but you can't tell me you are not a minority.
See, there you go again. "You can't tell me this...Don't BS me, you know it's true..." What's the point of even talking? Apparently there's no room for discussion because you know better than any of us how things are.
#4. As for you wanting respect for the profession, that's comendable, but again you are barking up the wrong tree. The combat population doesn't respect entertainers, because they've become next to worthless to them. Removing mind wounds and battle fatigue was the worst thing they could possibly do to this proff. It's not due to afk people.
Yes, it IS due to AFK people. You may believe that things changed for entertainers when Battle Fatigue left the game, but that was just one nail in the coffin. The real decline began over a year earlier.
You need to focus your anger towards the developers of this game, and the guy responsible for the state of the entertainer profession as it is, not towards people with afkentertainers, having fun elsewhere. After all, it's a game, it's fun right? Not with this proff.
You know, I'm perfectly willing to believe that it's not fun for you. As Panthu suggested, you ought to consider making some suggestions in the appropriate threads with ideas to make it more fun if that's what you want. I DO have a problem with you saying that everyone who says they're having fun is a liar. So, you've got a cantina full of master bots? Did you consider that they're "playing" the game just like you suggested? "I'm helping my PA" "I'm making sure that there's always a buff around" "I'm grinding entertainer XP to trade for force sensitive XP." Reasons like this have nothing to do with the fun of the profession and everything to do with the benefits of NOT playing the profession.
Those bots are the reason you don't find the live entertainers. What fun is it to be a live entertainer in a robot cantina? Especially since, right now, there are no customers anyway, and the few that come in get it for free from the bots?
Yes, we've been nerfed into uselessness, but that's a recent event and it will soon be remedied by the new buffs they've got on test server, or so we hope. The AFK problem is an ongoing one from nearly the beginning of the game.
Look, I don't care how you play. I DO care about someone coming around and saying "This isn't fun and you're full of crap if you say it is." If you've got some valid things to say then try a wee bit of diplomacy when you're saying them. Don't presume to dictate how things are if you want your ideas to get a fair hearing. You want to tell me how you feel? Fine. Don't come in here, though, and tell me how I feel.
That said, I'm finished replying to this thread. I've already broken my personal rule about posting when annoyed, I'll give the rest of it a pass. If you take anything from this, understand that I'm annoyed by HOW you said your piece and your apparently very closed mind, not your defense of AFK'ers or your idea that entertaining is boring. I don't expect you to care how I personally feel, but I'm hoping you'll at least consider the possibility that others might feel similarly and adjust your presentation accordingly.
Message Edited by SlickRiptide on 08-28-2005 11:01 AM
Message Edited by SlickRiptide on 08-28-2005 11:05 AM
Laleela
Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:14 pm
#9
SlickRiptide wrote:
Laleela wrote:
#1. I'm not looking for sympathy.
Nobody said you were.
Actually,youdid, ....I quote: "Saying "I pay the same as you, why shouldn't I "play" the way I want?" won't get you any sympathy here."
#2. How can you honestly tell me, that the majority of players that play entertainers are at the keyboards at all times? Come on. My dancer is in the cantina with 6 other master entertainer professions right now in my group and NOBODY is at the keyboard. 5 of them are masters. 1 working on it. My dancer is there every day. It's always like that. Sporadic people will pop in here and there, but for 90% of the time nobody is at the keyboard. how can you say the majority of the entertainer profession is always there, having fun?
It seems that YOU didn't read MY post. I didn't say "the majority are at their keyboard at all times". I said "the AFK bots are what drove away the live entertainers".
In your opinion......
My opinion however, is that the broken profession is what drove everyone to be AFK. Most people cannot see any reason to be there, when they can go AFK and provide the same benifit to the combat community.
If you find it fun great, but you can't tell me you are not a minority.
See, there you go again. "You can't tell me this...Don't BS me, you know it's true..." What's the point of even talking? Apparently there's no room for discussion because you know better than any of us how things are.
You are correct. There is no point in arguing. And if you'll read myfirst post, and really read it, instead of glaring at it, reading half of it and typing out a flame with teeth clenched, I wasn't looking for an arguement. Apparently you were.
#4. As for you wanting respect for the profession, that's comendable, but again you are barking up the wrong tree. The combat population doesn't respect entertainers, because they've become next to worthless to them. Removing mind wounds and battle fatigue was the worst thing they could possibly do to this proff. It's not due to afk people.
Yes, it IS due to AFK people. You may believe that things changed for entertainers when Battle Fatigue left the game, but that was just one nail in the coffin. The real decline began over a year earlier.
No, it is not due to AFK people. Again, going AFK is a result of the problem, NOT the problem itself. /sigh
You need to focus your anger towards the developers of this game, and the guy responsible for the state of the entertainer profession as it is, not towards people with afkentertainers, having fun elsewhere. After all, it's a game, it's fun right? Not with this proff.
You know, I'm perfectly willing to believe that it's not fun for you. As Panthu suggested, you ought to consider making some suggestions in the appropriate threads with ideas to make it more fun if that's what you want. I DO have a problem with you saying that everyone who says they're having fun is a liar.
This response is bolded because it's the biggest misinterpretation you've made from my post. When did I say this? When did I call someone who says they're having fun a liar?? How do I know when someone is having fun, and what kind of person would tell someone they're not? That's rediculous. My comment was "how can you say the majority of the entertainer profession is always there, having fun?" I did not say nobody is having fun, is said the majority of people (almost all) do not.
So, you've got a cantina full of master bots? Did you consider that they're "playing" the game just like you suggested? "I'm helping my PA" "I'm making sure that there's always a buff around" "I'm grinding entertainer XP to trade for force sensitive XP." Reasons like this have nothing to do with the fun of the profession and everything to do with the benefits of NOT playing the profession. Yes, exactly. I can't put it any more clearly than you have here. If it were "fun", they wouldn't be AFK doing all those things.....
Those bots are the reason you don't find the live entertainers. What fun is it to be a live entertainer in a robot cantina? Especially since, right now, there are no customers anyway, and the few that come in get it for free from the bots?
The point I was trying to make, is *most* cantinas are what you call robot cantinas....the cantina I was refering to in my post was the MO on Dant. btw, not a deserted guild cantina.
Yes, we've been nerfed into uselessness, but that's a recent event and it will soon be remedied by the new buffs they've got on test server, or so we hope. The AFK problem is an ongoing one from nearly the beginning of the game.
Yes ents have been broken a long time, but now they're really broken. The latest nerf is a huge one, and THAT is why there are even more AFK entertainers than before. Its not fun to be called useless, it's not fun to be at the keyboard socializing with people that just want your buff and to get out of there back to the grind. Result = AFK entertainers, giving the combat population the only thing they really want from us.
Look, I don't care how you play. I DO care about someone coming around and saying "This isn't fun and you're full of crap if you say it is." If you've got some valid things to say then try a wee bit of diplomacy when you're saying them.
You are way off base. I did not say this.
Don't presume to dictate how things are if you want your ideas to get a fair hearing. You want to tell me how you feel? Fine. Don't come in here, though, and tell me how I feel.
No, I don't care to tell you have I feel. I asked a question, why is the profession not fun, and I made an observation, that the focus of everyone's "anger" for lack of a better word towards AFK entertainerswould be more appropriate if aimed at what the real problem is. That being the fact that most people do not seem to have fun actually playing an entertainer. Therefor, they AFK. That's it, and in a nutshell is mypoint.
That said, I'm finished replying to this thread. I've already broken my personal rule about posting when annoyed, I'll give the rest of it a pass.
That's probably a good idea. You sound really angry, and need a break.I will not apologize to you though, becauseall I did was post a question of whyentertainers are getting a bad rap for being AFK.
If you take anything from this, understand that I'm annoyed by HOW you said your piece and your apparently very closed mind, not your defense of AFK'ers or your idea that entertaining is boring. I don't expect you to care how I personally feel, but I'm hoping you'll at least consider the possibility that others might feel similarly and adjust your presentation accordingly. You are annoyed with what you thought you "heard". You are mistaken.
Message Edited by SlickRiptide on 08-28-2005 11:01 AM
Message Edited by SlickRiptide on 08-28-2005 11:05 AM
Message Edited by Laleela on 08-28-2005 03:18 PM
Jacob_Entertainer
Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:41 pm
#10
ohhh such pretty colours in the quoted quoted text 
I have been an entertainer since the European launch day and I am not an AFK entertainer. I have fun simply interacting with those who come into the cantina.
I do not care about tips - I have more than enough to last me thank to good friends in the game who acknowledge the hard work a real entertainer does.
Why don't we all calm down now have have a nice talk about that lovely new tailors shop which opened just outside Theed?
I have been an entertainer since the European launch day and I am not an AFK entertainer. I have fun simply interacting with those who come into the cantina.
I do not care about tips - I have more than enough to last me thank to good friends in the game who acknowledge the hard work a real entertainer does.
Why don't we all calm down now have have a nice talk about that lovely new tailors shop which opened just outside Theed?
Chessack
Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:52 pm
#11
Laleela wrote:
Here's what boggles the mind. The average combat player base has animosity towards entertainers that are afk. what they dont realize is if there were no AFK dancers, the profession would not exist......don't BS me you know it's true. NOBODY can sit at the keyboard for long watching their toon spin around.
I can, and do. In fact, I had 2 accounts and decided SWG was not worth it. The one I cancelled was the combat toon. The Entertainer has remained intact. Why?
Because I can't sit at keyboard for long watching my toon kill the same stupid, useless, non-challenging critters and NPCs over and over again.
To me, the post-CU combat system is infinitely more boring than any other game system in SWG, including resource surveying (blargh) and crafting (ho hum). Dancing and music are the only things that still do interest me. If they bore you, that's fine... but "NOBODY" is false, because I'm somebody.
I have mastered all 4 ent profs (ent, dancer, music, ID). I have done every single one WITHOUT a AFKing (I do not count taking 30 seconds to go get a drink of water and letting my toon dance while I do). Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
C
Chessack
Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:54 pm
#12
Laleela wrote:
#2. How can you honestly tell me, that the majority of players that play entertainers are at the keyboards at all times? Come on.
Um, look up at your own post. You got flamed because you didn't say "the majority" you said "NOBODY". Your words, your capitalization. When you say "nobody" likes playing a dancer at keyboard, (or musician, whatever), of course we who do like it, and consider ourselves to most definitely be "sombodies", are going to take you to task.
C
Warryyr
Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:56 pm
#13
Didn't this whole exchange already happen in the Dancer forums?
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