Musician Archive
Thread: Musician Revamp suggestion
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DezzCadina
Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:15 am
#1
had a great idea the other nite, although i am not a musician in game i am in real life and i know theres bound to be a good amount of others out there that are as well and i just figured it would be a great idea is when you finish the composer tree in musician you could actually compose your own music in game. besides who wouldn't wanna hear crazy train on a narlagon lol
Esharra
Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:50 am
#2
Yup..I know what you mean..all the time I'm hearing something in a riff and wanting to just go off with it..but the devgods say no..copyright problems apparently.
NewJedi
Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:38 am
#3
The devs actually fought for this in beta. Quite hard, apparently. But their bosses and and their lawyers said no.
Unfortunately, the copyright concerns are legitimate. My specialty is not copyright law, but I know some of the basics. If any of us "composes" our own cover version of "Hey Jude," and then performs it in a busy place like Coronet cantina, we have engaged in a "public performance" of a protected work.Yes, we might do the sameby typing the text of the third "Harry Potter" novel into /say, butit'sfar less likely that the entire corpus of a book can be typed into chat, since that would take days or weeks. A song can be performed in two minutes.
DezzCadina
Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:45 am
#4
well if ya think about it anyone could go out on the streets anywhere with a guitar and just bust out singin and playin it
Bronski113
Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:33 am
#5
I wish this would be in the game too but I can understand their reasons. If they can't do this I wish they'd add in more flourishes, maybe put in 8 more?Well, that's just wishful thinking on my part.
NewJedi
Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:11 am
#6
My sense is that our existing songs aren't going to change, and every indication is that the new batch of songs that are floating around somewhere in SOE will also come with eight flourishes. Certainly the one new song on TCworks the same way our current songs do: eight flourishes only, plus a start and stop flourish. Hey, if I were czar, we'd have 24 flourishes for each tune, or more.
As for playing on the street:As I understand it, even that conduct might in theoryconsititute a public performance of a copyrighted work, and thus infringement. I'm told that clubs and other performance venues pay a general license fee to permit such public performances on their premises. Now, one thing I have wondered about is whether SOE couldmake some similar arrangement for us Musicians, but our resident copyright lawyer (Gramon, you lurking?) seems to think that's unlikely.
LyteFoot
Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:41 pm
#7
Has anyone used /changeb to give themselves more flourishes? I know dancers can mix the exotic1,2,3 very well because they use the same base dance. Which songs would mix well? I think starwars3 and jazz might with possibly virtuoso for a few jazz singles in the mix. Hmmm nay have to work on that 
Amon_Finster
Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:07 am
#8
Don't think songs "mix" that well. The change is just to "hard".
For Dancers the Exotics are very likely and mix just fine, but every single song has it's very own melody.. so no real good mixing here.
What would be nice for a revamp?
- Forbid buffbots by the TOS, or simply cripple them ( in what way ever ).
- Autokick if entertaining and afk for longer then 15 minutes.
- newcommand: /grantheal ( or something like this ) options:
- /grantheal auto - everybody listening/watching gets healed ( the "hey i have my good day, come on over and just enjoy" )
- /grantheal target time- grants heal for this target for "time" minutes, default is 15 minutes
- /grantheal off - resets the auto state and all granted heals
- AFK entertainer healing/enhancing reduced by 50%-75%, if you choose the dummy, you have to have time.
First post.
Hope you like the ideas.
Bye
Amon
LyteFoot
Mon Sep 27, 2004 5:58 am
#9
I could see the grant heal becoming a real problem. Some players resent having to go to a cantina enough as it is without being forced to ask for heals. Its pretty amazing how they will go to a med center and beg, plead, and bribe to get wounds healed or line up and sit for long periods to get doc buffs at 25k a pop. When it comes to the mind pool and entertainers they want it now, free, and without interaction.
Amon_Finster
Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:18 am
#10
LyteFoot wrote:
I could see the grant heal becoming a real problem. Some players resent having to go to a cantina enough as it is without being forced to ask for heals. Its pretty amazing how they will go to a med center and beg, plead, and bribe to get wounds healed or line up and sit for long periods to get doc buffs at 25k a pop. When it comes to the mind pool and entertainers they want it now, free, and without interaction.
Every class isn't supposed to give there services without being asked. Artisans don't drop there stuff every 10 Seconds. Doctors don't heal anyone just looking at them.
Now what are the three main problems of the Entertainer Community?
- BuffBots
- AFK Players
- Nobody must tip us, they can.. if they are noble
I'am an entertainer. I love my profession. I love to interact.
From time to time there are people which interact, tip, and so on. I like to heal them. They deserve to get healed.
On the other hand there are this "Hey heal me in 2 minutes, here are your 50 Credits, have to go, see you later" with tons of BF and Mind wounds.
I don't see why I have to heal those guys when im playing for a Customer of sort One.
We all know the problems of entertainers. And sure some people will comlain about this grant heal.
But it's the kind of customers destroying the entertainer profession.
If they want to get healed, they can talk to us, pay us and play with us.
At least Entertainers are also PLAYERS not NPC hanging around in Cantinas for the joy of others.
Bye
Amon
LyteFoot
Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:54 am
#11
The analogy with artisans doesn't hold because I can always find a vendor somewhere with the product I want.
The only similar analogy is doctors and even that breaks down a bit because a doctor has to collect resources and make stimpacks, cure packs, and buff packs. There is a perceived effort to reward.
Maybe that is the root of our problem. Since the cure has always been passive entertainers haven't been perceived as actually doing anything. I guess I'm arguing myself somewhat into your corner 
I do know the masses would howl if they suddenly had to find an entertainer and ask to get healed. My bigger fear is that this would drive the devs to turning more of this ability over to doctors.
I do know the masses would howl if they suddenly had to find an entertainer and ask to get healed. My bigger fear is that this would drive the devs to turning more of this ability over to doctors.The singlel biggest thing hurting us is the passive nature of our heals and the masses of AFK players working on experience. I think that is more harmful even than the buff bots. I hang out in Theed and there are normally 5 present and 20 afk performers. You see people actually coming in and asking if anyone is not AFK then going and listening to the ones that answer. Many players, not all but many, actually want us ATK as much as those frequenting this forum.
Amon_Finster
Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:58 am
#12
LyteFood I totally agree with you in the point that there are guys looking for ATK Entertainers. This is the sort also tipping. And so on.
Sort it out to get you even more into "my corner".
You made a point: Artisans have vendors, they collect resources and make money with it.
Docs also have to craft, buy/find resources and so in.
Both of them, I totally agree that there work done before gives them the right to earn creds.
No go to the entertainers. Us, the lazy bunch of just hanging around, hopping around, indestructable instruments, AFK'ing our money.
Whoops. We are kind of insocial? Sounds like hm?
To make clear what im heading for:
We need no resources, no tools, no crafting. We only need to entertain.
If somebody isn't even able to do this, just entertain by playing his char punish him by:
- Reduce Healing/Enhancment 50%-75% while AFK.
So we actually have to do something for our XP: Be ATK and entertain.
I don't really care about our abilities handed back to the Doc's.
There are enough ATK entertainers out there. Enough "upcoming" talents. But this talents learn that they can earn must while being AFK BuffBots. If this way of unsocial play is nerfed, they would learn a real way to entertain.
Combine this with the grantheal and our heals aren't that passive anymore.
See my point? ( And yes I also see your point, but i don't think we have to hide. We are a part of this "society" also. And why don't let them which want to contribute to this society do their part? )
Bye
Amon
LyteFoot
Mon Sep 27, 2004 10:57 am
#13
Amon I certainly said nothing about hiding. I think the active heal would actually slow down the AFK entertainer because a whole tree becomes more difficult to accomplish. It might also start some healing point competition but I'm not sure that is a bad thing either. What it would do is make the front room even worse than it is. Nothing made Musician more enjoyable than reaching master. It wasn't just that I could play all the songs, it was the total freedom from counting experience. If we have to actively heal you will see more mind tumblers in the casinos.
Its going to be a tough balance but I think this could be made to work. I think it would need a rework of the HAM requirements, just playing burns some action but not as much as when doing a heal perhaps. I don't think you can punish the AFK performer because many of them don't set AFK status to keep themfrom being obviously AFK.
If they did this they would need to make the cantina slowly heal mind wounds like it used to. Then a person can elect to sit there for hours like they do in the med center and eventually get healed.
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