Merchant Archive
Thread: vendors for non-artisan classes
first off, i am almost a master merchant (no... im not a bug exploiter!). but to the point at hand, there are a few things that the merchant profession must be aware of.
Fact 1= Doctor, Bio-engineer, Smuggler (to a lesser degree), and combat Medic are very much so crafting professions!
Fact 2= anyone who thinks a "mini" vendor that could hold 25 items would be effective is wrong. Doctors make far too many levels of items and also need to make a wound pack for each of the 6 physical stats... and then have them on the vendor in various amounts to be able to cater to everyone's needs. 25 items would not last 2 seconds when selling meds. case in point: i currently have only Stim B's and wound pack B's on my one and only vendor... these items account for 224 items at last count. now add Stim C's, Stim D's, Wound C packs, Poison and disease packs, and buff D packs. thats way more items than any other artisan based profession would ever normally have on their vendor.
Fact 3= anyone who thinks that doctor, combat medic, or smuggler are lucrative professions are just dumb! ive only been a doctor so i will address that profession only... although i know people of the other professions have money troubles too. Every combat professional looks at the buff line and thinks "these docs are so rich and lazy". what most people dont see is that doc are running around finding Lokian wild wheat, Tatt. fiberplast, class 4 petro fuels, herbivore meat (this resource hurts us in so many ways), dolovite iron, domesticated oats, avian meat, reactive gas (which we have to compete with weaponsmiths for!), seeds, polymer, and then a genereic organic and inorganic so that we dont have to use our required sub component resources when specific resources arent called for. now look at the doc who paid 5 cpu for 18k lok wheat (makes 1000 advanced bio effect controllers), 5 cpu for 18k tatt fiberplast, 40cpu for 16k herb meat, 10 cpu for 16k class 4 petros, 20 cpu for high OQ dolovite iron (as if it ever spawns 
), 5 cpu for domesticated oats, then 30 cpu for reactive gas (for buff D packs). and then a whopping 100cpu for the good avian meat! the doc sells buffs for 5k (on bloodfin thats the going rate). how rich is that doctor now? maybe makes a 1k profit for each buff... maybe buffs 80 people in a day before boredom sets in. armorsmiths will turn an 80k profit MUCH faster than that. they will also use less resources... practically get a free vendor because they are already an artisan... and can survey even without going up the survey tree. meanwhile the doc is left to shiver in the cold because the merchant profession refuses to allow A (as in ONE) vendor to the master doctor. thus meaning that my skill points which i could use to get some combat skills are tied up in artisan and business 3. Now if i already have artisan it would simply be good business to be able to effectively survey for my own resources... surveying 4 here i come. well now iv just spent ALL of my "dabbling points" on my only hope for being lucrative with the doctor profession. i COULD master a basic ranged profession... or i could get a little bit into an elite combat profession. but not high enough to enjoy PvP or the harder caves and what not that artisan based professions get to do with their combat masteries.
with all this stated, MASTER non-artisan based professions require ONE vendor at the MASTER level. These medical based profession are just as much a crafting profession as the artisan professions, yet we do not recieve the same benefits as our artisan counter-parts. i agree that you should not be allowed to surrender your skills and retain the benefits... however, there should be a vendor granted to the MASTER level crafters.
Almost everyone who isn't a combatant crafts. By your criteria, musicians should get vendors to sell their instruments. Rangers should get them to sell traps and camps. Where does it end? There's no reason to give a vendor to every person who wants one or thinks they deserve one. One of the main challenges of this game is prioritizing the abilities you want and spending the skill points to go after them. If running a store is important to you then you have to earn it and sacrifice skill points to it. Handing out vendors to any Master that crafts would be unfair to those of us who value our shops enough to commit skill points to them.
And don't blame the merchant profession from keeping you from having vendors. The devs are the ones who are keeping vendors where they are in order to keep the Merchant profession at least a little worthwhile. We spend a lot of skillpoints on Merchant and have a lot fewer abilities to show for it than most of the Advanced Professions.
Saying that you should get a vendor just for mastering Doctor would be like me saying I should get to heal myself just from mastering a combat class. I mean, if I master a combat class, I need to be able to heal myself because I'd get hurt so often! It's not fair to expect the poor combatants to spend their precious skillpoints on Medic when they need that healing ability! The devs should end the medic monopoly on healing and let the combat characters who need it so badly have access to it too!
See what I mean? It just doesn't make sense.
First off... I know that feeling, as I'm a doc my self (Not master yet, but is progressing)... second... I've to disagree with that about the vendor at master level crafter... In fact I won't even go as far as say that doctor's are a crafter... hell if doc's and smuggler are crafter, the only ones not a crafter is those that don't have to build things to use their skills, and don't gets schematics... that would mean the master entertainer and master musician should have a vendor to... 
Vendors arethe merchants only asset for earning money... without those, it's just a fancy title, nothing more or nothing less... In fact I don't think anyone without the merchant profession should be able to have a vendor. Insert the vendor in other profession than the merchant, you remove the merchant only asset, and they would be nothing worth... you might as well remove the profession...
If you can't stand to have the merchant profession, but still want to run a pharmacy store (As I understand you do), then befriend a merchant you know is reliable, and make a deal with him. Or find a mall that have a pharmacy vendor, and cut a deal with them (just make sure to get money)...
See that is the power of SWG, no single profession is self-sufficient (well... maybe except for the entertainer classes... but still they need the others to make money...)... which will improve cooperating (if just those kiddos that aren't to be trusted wasn't in the game)...
Crafters without business 3 or higher should either sell on the bazaar or find a merchant 
Thats what we're here for
donnah, elminster, ashrid
donnah first:
ill bet your in an artisan based profession. business 3 is a perk to you! you already have 15 skill points spent on novice... whats 10 more for business 3. well for me its 25. i wanted nothing to do with the artisan profession when i started playing (thought i would never have a vendor). but now im sucked into spending 25 skill points for ONE vendor. thats excessive dont you think. seeing as how the artisan professions (which craft far less sellable items than a FULL med vendor would) get ONE vendor for 10 skill points. im not saying docs should get the full benefits of master merchant... im only saying there should be a way for a doc to get ONE basic vendor without using 25 skill points. I my self am going for master merchant! i want my meds to rule the galaxy. but ive already explained that to be lucrative with a doctor you MUST sell your crafted meds.
elminster:
"Vendors arethe merchants only asset for earning money... without those, it's just a fancy title, nothing more or nothing less"
the vendor makes money by SELLING the goods he/she crafts. MOST merchants are selling artisan based goods. to get business 3 is not a problem for them because they are only spending 10 (becuase the 15 for novice are locked in for them). how can a doctor who needs to sell 200+ items (if the sell only stim B and wound pack B) possibly make money through the bazaar? As stated before, i am a merchant myself. Also, your nota master yet... wait till you find out how little money you make selling buffs... then open a med vendor... and realize that you have no lost an extreme amount of skill points to have just one vendor (hint: place it wisely )
Ashrid:
name one good way to use someone elses vendor? the devs are dragging their feet on a solution... so far the best ive heard is the following:
1-Doc offers a wound pack to the vendor to sell for 2500cr.
2-Merchant can clikc one button and imediately sell said wound pack
3-when wound pack is sold the money will go to the DOCTOR... with a % commision going to the MERCHANT for selling the item.
since this isnt in the game... and it doesnt seem like it ever will be... we must discuss this issue. I would be pleased as punch to allow a merchant a 5% cut of my item. even more please if i got the full 2500 and the 5% was added on top of that item to be paid by the customer (much like sales tax is done).
To all of you:
im not saying every crafter should get a vendor. im simply saying that 25 skill points for just ONE vendor is excessive. we can all agree on that. i am however saying that doctors and combat medics (ive decided that smugglers dont do enough crafting to really consider them a crafting profession). deserve the same 10 skill point cost that artisan based professions must pay in order to get a vendor.
i hope this has put to rest any thought. and im glad were engaging in this discussion! i feel this is a rather important issue.
pizzathehut67 wrote:
name one good way to use someone elses vendor? the devs are dragging their feet on a solution... so far the best ive heard is the following:
1-Doc offers a wound pack to the vendor to sell for 2500cr.
2-Merchant can clikc one button and imediately sell said wound pack
3-when wound pack is sold the money will go to the DOCTOR... with a % commision going to the MERCHANT for selling the item.
since this isnt in the game... and it doesnt seem like it ever will be... we must discuss this issue. I would be pleased as punch to allow a merchant a 5% cut of my item. even more please if i got the full 2500 and the 5% was added on top of that item to be paid by the customer (much like sales tax is done).
To all of you:
im not saying every crafter should get a vendor. im simply saying that 25 skill points for just ONE vendor is excessive. we can all agree on that. i am however saying that doctors and combat medics (ive decided that smugglers dont do enough crafting to really consider them a crafting profession). deserve the same 10 skill point cost that artisan based professions must pay in order to get a vendor.
i hope this has put to rest any thought. and im glad were engaging in this discussion! i feel this is a rather important issue.
The #4 issue on our top 5 list is to make it easier for crafters (which in this case would include anyone who can craft an item or aquire one) to sell through merchants. The idea that you outline is in that thread. Will we get it? I think we will get it but I don't know when. I think the Dev team is open to the idea of making some changes that will make merchant a much more fun profession to play.
25 skill points IS a large price to pay for one vendor. Which is why selling through the bazaar and selling to established merchants has to be considered as possible solutions.
The same arguement could and HAS been made by medical types who want surveying skills that are in artisan. The answer for the devs? Sorry..those are artisan skills, if you want to have them you will have to expend the skill points to get them, that is part of the challenge of the game.
The same is true of vendors. If you must have your own vendor you can get one ...with 25 skill points. If you aren't willing to spend those poinst then team up with someone who is.
Your idea on the commission based sale is excellent. That is exactly the sort of thing we are lobbying for to make this whole situation easier for everyone.
pizzathehut67 wrote:
elminster:
"Vendors arethe merchants only asset for earning money... without those, it's just a fancy title, nothing more or nothing less"
the vendor makes money by SELLING the goods he/she crafts. MOST merchants are selling artisan based goods. to get business 3 is not a problem for them because they are only spending 10 (becuase the 15 for novice are locked in for them). how can a doctor who needs to sell 200+ items (if the sell only stim B and wound pack B) possibly make money through the bazaar? As stated before, i am a merchant myself. Also, your nota master yet... wait till you find out how little money you make selling buffs... then open a med vendor... and realize that you have no lost an extreme amount of skill points to have just one vendor (hint: place it wisely
I'mcompletely aware of that situation, but there is other ways to earn money as a doctor, and good money in fact... if I'm not wrong, you talked about taking some combat skills instead... then drop merchant and take scout and some combat... team up with some hunters, go on missions, and earn good cash... a good doctor is always in need...
That you want to earn you money through selling medsvia vendors, that mean you have to sacrifice some skill points to get that... there is other ways to sell meds... take on a cliental base in the city your located, and sell to them, or find some other smart ways to sell your meds... but if you want a vendor, then you should go the path of the merchant, just like a person who want to resurrect or buff others, have to go the path of the doctor... that is the game mechanism... you have to use your 250 skills points in a way you like... I know we could really use more skill points... and 24 skill points (Had to correct you... it's 24 not 25 )to get a vendor for a master doc is many skill points. Well... enough said... but I have to know why do you think a master doctor and combat medic should get a vendor when following don't get one:
Master Ranger (Seriously... they live of selling ressources, they should get one if a master doc should get one)
Master Smuggler (They still sell spices, for roleplaying reason I could see why they shouldn't sell them on vendors... but still... give me a good reason (I know you removed it, but would like to hear a reason)?)
All other master elite crafting profession, those that have artisan as base(Hell, why should they spend 10 points to get a vendor, when a master doc gets one for free?)
And whoever else that crafts something... I need a valid and well argumented answer, before I'll even think about you might be right... but I'll say again... that's the game mechanism...
pizzathehut67 wrote:
armorsmiths will turn an 80k profit MUCH faster than that. they will also use less resources... practically get a free vendor because they are already an artisan...
You lost me there. You ever look at what it takes to make armor? Ever look at what it takes to make good armor? Why do you think we have to charge the prices we do?Do you realize I have to become a master artisan if I want tomakePSGs? That's 48 skill points I have to waste and your complaining about 24. You should never compare docs to armorsmiths unless you have done it. You know nothing of our "struggle".
I took the merchant road to sell my armor, so I suggest you stop being so lazy and spend those 24 skill points for a single vendor.
You will never see vendors for any other profession. It will make the merchant profession null and void.
I have bought tons of meds off Docs that never had a vendor, you just sound unsocial or just don't want to put the efffort in.
Harsh words Elood, but none the less, I think they're true
Never mastered armorsmith, but have done a little dabbling there, and have worked together with not so few armorsmiths, it's a hard line of business...
Oh, just on more note... if just people could stop thinking of ideas that would benefit themself (For most parts, it would ruin it for others), and just begin thinking what would benefit the game and the whole community, instead of one self...
(Hey I'm not saying I can, but that perhaps the reason why I don't post most of my ideas )
Personally, I'd like to give Merchants like myself the ability to "craft" (hire) NPCs and vendors for others. I'd like to run the "manpower" business that puts NPC customers in your player cantina or that lets me sell my fully-trained NPC vendor to the Master Doctor to sell his goods for him. I'd like to pick out the perfect NPC for my player city mayor to use as an Artisan Trainer in the city.
This would give merchants more day-to-day use of their Hiring branch, it would fill a void in the game (putting non-vendor NPCs in player-owned structures), and it would provide a way for merchants to give vendors to non-Merchants. Those who receive vendors would still be limited by total stock or price caps that are much higher for true Merchants, but it would solve a lot of issues on both sides of the fence -- plus it would be FUN!
alright elminnster... if your going to post read what i write! i did not suggest that the professions should get them for free! i proposed that an alternative option could be that at MASTER level NON-ARTISAN based professions be required to spend the same amount that an artisan base would spend! the cost of ONE vendor to an artisan based profession is 10 skills points (as the 15 in novice artisan are a requirement for their other profession). to everyone else it is 25 skill points. take doctor for example. an artisan base could take 3 of the 4 trees in artisan and have all of their surveying, a vendor, and the pre-req for their elite profession. Doctors MUST master an entire base profession and then move up into doctor. like any other profession, only masters can make the items that bring in the bucks (Buff D packs). So, the doctor uses more skill points than the artisan based profession. as proven earlier the doctor sells a MUCH wider variety of items than any other artisan based profession... yet we are penalized by having to spend 25 skill points for one vendor? is this fair? if the devs wanted docs to sit in the med center and heal than they would have made meds an artisan item! the meds are a doctor item... and also the only way to be consistently lucrative in the doctor profession. As stated before, buffing (even at 10k) does not bring in as much money as people think! The doctor profession merely wants balance!
To address the surveying issue:
The Devs have stated that the doctor was supposed to have a "surveying" skill in the form of /medicalforage. however this tool is ENTIRELY worhtless! it simply nets 1 unit of a random organic on that planet. Because of the complere failure of this command and the lack of Dev response to fixing this HUGE inbalance (they dont want to revamp an entire skill... the medical forage skill rating means nothing) the only recourse is to allow doctors the use of BASIC surveing skills (that of the novice artisan or maybe less in that we could not extract resources... we could only see stats and percentages for harvester placement). We would be just as happy with a /medicalforage that works as it was intended to... but that day will sadly never come!
Dude, Smuggler is not a lucrative profession? What are you smokin? Whatever it is, it's better than the spice I sell. Do you realize that a schematic's worth of clamps cost 90k in any metal? Do the math. 3cpu (because quality doesn't matter a lick) and that's 270k in cost for 40 crates. I can sell those crates for 15k A PIECE. That's 600k for the whole run, a 330k profit. That's first of all.
Secondly, if non-artisans want a vendor, they can do like this smuggler did and spend the points to get a vendor. Or find some one who has one. There's no need to give out our biggest advantage.