Merchant Archive
Thread: I understand Vendor Admin is No Go, but what about this?
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Elioi
Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:59 am
#1
Thought I'd make a new thread about this idea and not get the Vision Doc thread muddled by discussion there.
Ok, I understand that people get upset when the "Other" Merchants talk about getting an admin system for vendors - but how about this for those of us who had to take over for those merchants who used to be "exploiting". How about an Auto Transfer?
Place a check box in the sell screen that says "Forward sale to object creator"
That way the sale e-mail goes to the object creator along with the money from the sale, that way the crafter has no interaction with any of the vendor stuff so they don't "get their paws" on my oh so important invested skillpoints. The crafter makes the object, hands it to me, I do all the merchant stuff, they get the money - it would cut down a ton of my work.
Quite frankly I am getting tired of having to take one for the team to keep many of my guildmates in the crafting process. An Admin system would be ideal, but I understand that that is a no go here, so how about a little bone to help me keep my sanity?
And for those who think "where will I get my cut from" some of us sell for our friends with no cut, and also remember that little word we merchants have been pushing on the crafters for over a year "just find someone you trust".
LonelyGhost
Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:46 am
#2
Is it still the case sometimes that if you pull an item from a crate it lists you as the creator of the item? I seem to recall that happening in the past, where I had item that showed me as the creator, although I did not make it, but only pulled it from a crate.
DocSavag
Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:28 am
#3
I responded to this in the other thread but basically my critique is that this idea is centered around solving only one scenario. If you redefine it to cover a broader group of merchants it might be workable. The goal of any sales system though has to be to support the merchant making a profit by providing services to suppliers. If you choose to charge nothing for your fees that is fine but the system should by default be set up to pay the merchant for his services. Setting up a system to give away those services by default is not in the best interests of the merchant profession as a whole even if it would satisfy the issue you are trying to resolve for your guild.
The key elements would be:
1. The merchant should be able to set a fee at the time of sale
2. The Money Should be automatically transfered to the original seller (The creator isn't a valid actor in this transation. There is nothing preventing a supplier from being different from the creator and tying it to the object creator is too limiting) at the time of purchase
3. There should be safeguards for deleting the merchandise, for what happens for the merchandise if it doesn't sell, for deletion of the vendor as a whole.
The key elements would be:
1. The merchant should be able to set a fee at the time of sale
2. The Money Should be automatically transfered to the original seller (The creator isn't a valid actor in this transation. There is nothing preventing a supplier from being different from the creator and tying it to the object creator is too limiting) at the time of purchase
3. There should be safeguards for deleting the merchandise, for what happens for the merchandise if it doesn't sell, for deletion of the vendor as a whole.
NJ62
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:10 am
#4
The merchant should be able to set a fee at the time of sale
Taking this further, the vendor should have a default percentage or a default per-item fee (whichever the merchant has set on the vendor) which it charges automatically, unless the merchant inputs something different. Otherwise, the merchant has to calculate each item's fee and that's NO fun.
Taking this further, the vendor should have a default percentage or a default per-item fee (whichever the merchant has set on the vendor) which it charges automatically, unless the merchant inputs something different. Otherwise, the merchant has to calculate each item's fee and that's NO fun.
Cafa
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:29 am
#5
The fundamental flaw I see in your argument (from a game design position) is that ultimately without the player being involved in the process of the sale you have created another form of bot in the game.
Does this mean I don't like consignment sales? Heck no. I'm on record as an advocate for consignment going WAY back. But consignment does not mean a robot. The merchant should have the ability to change and interact with any sale on their vendors up and to the point that someone purchases a product. Period.
Vendors could use some serious rework to be a tad more useful. 
But, taking away from the profession in order to make your gameplay better is not the fault of the design doc. We all have 250 skill points per toon. The only one forcing you to use them for merchant is yourself. Vendors provide a functionality within the game system that allow players to conduct commerce without having to be there in person. Seen from a big picture, that's a huge advantage over every other profession when trying to gain credits for any goal you want to achieve.
But, taking away from the profession in order to make your gameplay better is not the fault of the design doc. We all have 250 skill points per toon. The only one forcing you to use them for merchant is yourself. Vendors provide a functionality within the game system that allow players to conduct commerce without having to be there in person. Seen from a big picture, that's a huge advantage over every other profession when trying to gain credits for any goal you want to achieve.Personally, I'd love to see vendor domains enhanced far beyond the scope of this discussion. Vendors that completely replace the Trade Forums, vendors that allow unlimited credit value auctions, vendors that provide contract rental of game assets (lots come to mind).
The difference I see in us is you only see the chore of posting and managing sales. I see opportunities to develop the economy of SWG into a truly unique venue beyond anything ever done in a MMOG.
Fivo Asia
Elioi
Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:02 pm
#6
While the goals and ideas you guys have stated are of course the ultimate goal - what I'm talking about is a possible down and dirty quck fix until we get some real Dev time. Lets face it - the grand ideas aren't going to get enough manpower to pull off sweeping changes for some time.
And I fail to see how this turns me into a bot - this allows me to sell the goods at prices I control, I control the advertising, I control the location, all that I no longer control is the money after a successful sale. You could call it "not-for-profit" merchantile. I still sell plenty of my own stuff, but it gives another option for those friends whom I choose to allow to sell through me. I still do all the "merchant" work as far as the system goes, it just cuts out the player work afterwords of moving the sale money to the appropriate channels - something we don't have within the system at all and are not an actual expenditure of skillpoints.
I'd love to see vendors get all the funtionality they need - particularly many of those in the vision document - but this option can be done with a limited amount of Dev time. Doc, I know this only works for a limited scenario, but I think that a small change is better then no change at all.
DocSavag
Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:22 pm
#7
Elioi wrote:Doc, I know this only works for a limited scenario, but I think that a small change is better then no change at all.
I can't really agree with that unless the change is one that is fairly universally acceptable and helps a large number of merchants and doesn't do harm to the merchant profession. I know this change would help your sitation, but I have some serious issues with the limitations of it that would prevent me from supporting it either as a representative of the merchants (which I won't be for very much longer) or a veteran merchant player.
Borion_Sunrunner
Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:58 pm
#8
DocSavag wrote:
I responded to this in the other thread but basically my critique is that this idea is centered around solving only one scenario. If you redefine it to cover a broader group of merchants it might be workable. The goal of any sales system though has to be to support the merchant making a profit by providing services to suppliers. If you choose to charge nothing for your fees that is fine but the system should by default be set up to pay the merchant for his services. Setting up a system to give away those services by default is not in the best interests of the merchant profession as a whole even if it would satisfy the issue you are trying to resolve for your guild.
The key elements would be:
1. The merchant should be able to set a fee at the time of sale
2. The Money Should be automatically transfered to the original seller (The creator isn't a valid actor in this transation. There is nothing preventing a supplier from being different from the creator and tying it to the object creator is too limiting) at the time of purchase
3. There should be safeguards for deleting the merchandise, for what happens for the merchandise if it doesn't sell, for deletion of the vendor as a whole.
I already run a thriving retail marketplace, where I buy items at "wholesale" from a variety of suppliers and relist for "retail". I really don't have any sort of problems with this system in the slightest - it models the real-world retail/wholesale market pretty well - as the retailer I take all the risk for the product's success and pay up front.
I likewise am able to run a consignment business, just based upon my reputation on the server, where people will gladly hand over items without collateral or payment up front, and will receive payment when the item sells (less my 10% - 20% fee depending on the total price of the item). This does however depend on my own responsibility for recordkeeping and heavily hinges on my reputation as a merchant of great renown.
That being said, this would certainly be an interesting enhancement.
I would think this could be accomplished with a system something like this:
A player making an offer to a vendor would have a separate tab for "Consignment" (or perhaps just a checkbox on the offer tab, whatever).
Consignment items would be listed for whatever price the seller puts for the merchant to "purchase" (as with a normal offer). However, upon accepting the offer the item moves to a Consignment storeroom (or perhaps the same storeroom with a special flag/etc that marks the item as consignment. The merchant would not have to pay for the item at this time.
The consignment item can then be listed for sale by the merchant using the existing system - i.e. at whatever price the merchant desires (but must be equal or greater than the consignment price set by the original owner). The item would default to the consignment price, so it would be pretty easy to add a fee to that directly. Perhaps as previously mentioned, the merchant could use the vendor admin ability to set a "default consignment fee" (by percentage) which would automatically be included thus making things even easier.
The merchant can cancel the consignment sale at any time, which works just like cancelling a normal item (it moves in to the stockroom, again with a special flag or in a special stockroom).
The merchant can also "decline" the consignment at any time, which would work like the current offer system - i.e. the merchant hits cancel, the sale is canceled and the seller receives an email notifying them to come pick up their item.
As with a normal "offer", the original seller can also cancel the consignment at any time (taking immediate posession).
If the consignment falls off the vendor due to time expiration, the original seller would receive a message that the consignment had failed and would be notified to come pick up their offering (as with the current offer system).
Finally when the consignment item sells, the consignment price goes to the original person, the merchant would keep any profit beyond the consignment price (if applicable).
Thoughts, feedback, modifications, etc?
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Message Edited by Borion_Sunrunner on 01-11-2005 03:05 PM
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