Merchant Archive
Thread: Introduction to a debate: Corporations in SWG.
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Tarnak_Archvold
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:30 am
#1
One thing that have stuck me as odd is that SoE have created mechanisms for most other game play types to work together with thair own kind. Combat types can form groups and share missions, entertainers can group up and that coordinate thair performance.
Crafters and merchant have no such functions made for them. The closest we get, is that we need one another's sup components.
The only way to create a company in SWG would be throe a guild, but it gives no real benefits other then a guild email. We can of cause share admin access to structures, and that way share resources, but only if we trust one another 100%.
Now this is not a "what SoE should do" post. This is about how we players can organise our self more like companies (big or small). How we can use the existing game mechanics with out having to be able to trust every "employee" 100%. And how we can do so with out it becoming like RL work.
I know that many run small one-person business, thoughts are not the subject of this post, in a MMO, we should be able to play with like-minded players and work together throe words common goals.
I also know some of you run big business. I would very much like it if you detailed how you are organised, how credit, resources, and finished products are moved around in you companies, and how profit and workloads are shared.
Crafters and merchant have no such functions made for them. The closest we get, is that we need one another's sup components.
The only way to create a company in SWG would be throe a guild, but it gives no real benefits other then a guild email. We can of cause share admin access to structures, and that way share resources, but only if we trust one another 100%.
Now this is not a "what SoE should do" post. This is about how we players can organise our self more like companies (big or small). How we can use the existing game mechanics with out having to be able to trust every "employee" 100%. And how we can do so with out it becoming like RL work.
I know that many run small one-person business, thoughts are not the subject of this post, in a MMO, we should be able to play with like-minded players and work together throe words common goals.
I also know some of you run big business. I would very much like it if you detailed how you are organised, how credit, resources, and finished products are moved around in you companies, and how profit and workloads are shared.
LonelyGhost
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:38 am
#2
Hmmm.
The first thing that entered my mind is the thought that this game should not have "corporations". Corporations are most oftenseen asglobe-spanning, money grubbing, power-hungry, irresponsible, nasty entities whos sole purpose in life is to make their owners and investors rich withouta care of who it hurts and if thier presence is good for humankind. hehehehe
Then I thought of all the dry-cleaning businesses, and carpet-cleaning, or lawn care, etc, who are also technically corporations. I would gladly go for this. I have always thought it interesting to be able to team up with a couple people and share the workload of running a business.
What I think is the issue is that it is too easy to be a crafter right now. The reason why (in concept) combatants group up is to take down things they *cannot* on their own. I have no chance at all in killing a SBD, but with the help of a few certain frineds, I can. We can. In order to apply this concept to crafting, you would then see something like this:
I, a Master DE, see that our Combat Droid stock has dropped, and send a message to my partners to get started on the next batch. I settle down in my workshop, and create schematics for the chassis and the DE-specific components I can craft solo (Brain, personality chip, Motivator....). I get those started in a factory. As I enter the data into the factory, I see partner #2 already has the MA parts I'll need for the next step running (EMM, GP, CU). Once my factory run is over, I let partner #3 know, a WS, and he picks up some of the Brains I made, and uses them in the construction of the Combat Modules. Our 4th partner, an AS, delivers a load of droid armor. We decide to make them Probots, so I ask Partner #2 (Master Artisan) to make me some Repulsor generators as well as the EMM and GP he made already. I gather everything into my workshop and assemble them all into the final Droid, and make a schematic.
THis sort of thing would be very cool, but I dont see it ever happening. People are too used to being soloist crafters. An existense SOE has supported by limiting crafter interdependancies. Players, in large, want to be able to do a lot of stuff in a short amount of time. The example I use includes things that do not exist, like a WS being needed to make Droid combat modules, using electronics from a DE. But I suspect that such an endeavor would take well over5 days to accomplish, asusming everything needed to be made from scratch.
I dont think SOE would ever make this sort of change. What we are left with is workign within the system to try and form those sort of partnerships. I might brainstorm a little and try to come up with a workable way to pool the efforts of a few crafters for the good of all.
Ethalsar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:54 am
#3
Lonelyghost, what you're talking about ain't a corporation - more like a mutual aid contract. For this to be a corporation, there would need to be some sort of putative entity that existed outside of the members of the corporation. As, for example, a city might be considered to be a corporation (as indeed London started of being and still is, I think). Through the actions of the officers of the city, the city has funds, owns assets, raises taxes etc etc etc. The corporation is not dependent on one person - in a city, the mayor can get booted out (though it's tough in SWG of course!) and so on.
As a business model (in UK terms), the difference is between a limited liability company (or plc), a partnership and a 'sole trader'. With the latter two, the owner(s) of the business are the business, they are totally responsible for the business. If the business gets sued, they get sued. If the business goes bust, they go bust. If a plc gets sued or goes bust, there's a limit to the liability of the officers of the company (who may not actually be the company's owners). Of course, in SWG all businesses are sole traderships no matter how much co-operation there may be between individuals, even via a PA set-up.
I'd often thought why there wasn't some sort of mechanism for companies in SWG... but I can see reservations about such a system based on the possibility of a small number of players dominating the economy of a given server to the detriment of the playing experience of the rest of SOE's paying customers. In reality, I guess the reason is that it was never considered by the development team, or they didn't have time for it if they did consider it, something along those lines!
For companies / corporations to properly exist, they would have to be separate entities in SWG. They would have to own assets (including property, vendors, stock, cash) and have their own officers (owners / whatever) who would have their own separate bank accounts etc. The ownership would have to be transferable in some way.
Just occured to me that with companies owning property (to which the company officers have admin rights to, of course), there'd be more storage space available! Guess many people would like this!
But ultimately, I don't know - I'm suspicious that in the long term, corporations would have a negative effect on the playing experience of too many people. Just like supermarkets in the UK, they would be able to dictate the price of resources, undercut everyone else, sell everything under one roof, and allow a small number of players to totally dominate any server's economy. In the UK, the corner shops, green grocers, family butchers etc are all disappearing, and farmers are having a tough time of it too, and much of the blame for this can be put at the feet of ASDA-WalMart, Sainsbury's, Tesco, etc etc.
In SWG, the developers cannot afford to have the corner shops (one-person businesses) go bust, and they cannot allow the farmers (resource-collectors) to have a hard time trying to survive... because at the end of the day, we're all SOE's customers, and with a careful eye on their own bottom line, they would want as many people to enjoy this game as possible. And I agree with them!
As a business model (in UK terms), the difference is between a limited liability company (or plc), a partnership and a 'sole trader'. With the latter two, the owner(s) of the business are the business, they are totally responsible for the business. If the business gets sued, they get sued. If the business goes bust, they go bust. If a plc gets sued or goes bust, there's a limit to the liability of the officers of the company (who may not actually be the company's owners). Of course, in SWG all businesses are sole traderships no matter how much co-operation there may be between individuals, even via a PA set-up.
I'd often thought why there wasn't some sort of mechanism for companies in SWG... but I can see reservations about such a system based on the possibility of a small number of players dominating the economy of a given server to the detriment of the playing experience of the rest of SOE's paying customers. In reality, I guess the reason is that it was never considered by the development team, or they didn't have time for it if they did consider it, something along those lines!
For companies / corporations to properly exist, they would have to be separate entities in SWG. They would have to own assets (including property, vendors, stock, cash) and have their own officers (owners / whatever) who would have their own separate bank accounts etc. The ownership would have to be transferable in some way.
Just occured to me that with companies owning property (to which the company officers have admin rights to, of course), there'd be more storage space available! Guess many people would like this!
But ultimately, I don't know - I'm suspicious that in the long term, corporations would have a negative effect on the playing experience of too many people. Just like supermarkets in the UK, they would be able to dictate the price of resources, undercut everyone else, sell everything under one roof, and allow a small number of players to totally dominate any server's economy. In the UK, the corner shops, green grocers, family butchers etc are all disappearing, and farmers are having a tough time of it too, and much of the blame for this can be put at the feet of ASDA-WalMart, Sainsbury's, Tesco, etc etc.
In SWG, the developers cannot afford to have the corner shops (one-person businesses) go bust, and they cannot allow the farmers (resource-collectors) to have a hard time trying to survive... because at the end of the day, we're all SOE's customers, and with a careful eye on their own bottom line, they would want as many people to enjoy this game as possible. And I agree with them!
Ethalsar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:59 am
#4
Just read my own post... there I go again, start of with a quick chat and end up on a soapbox!!!
While I am against a corporation in the conventional sense, I would like to see SOE spending some development time on ideas for some form of merchant co-operation. I think the model of a partnership should be supported - it's after all a social sort of a thing, just want SOE want to develop. Or what about some sort of co-operative?
While I am against a corporation in the conventional sense, I would like to see SOE spending some development time on ideas for some form of merchant co-operation. I think the model of a partnership should be supported - it's after all a social sort of a thing, just want SOE want to develop. Or what about some sort of co-operative?
DocSavag
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:57 am
#5
Right now to my mind there are only two ways to collective store money. The guild hall treasure and the city hall treasury. Both can be used as "Corporate" entities. The City Hall can only be managed by a "CEO" while the Guild Hall can be managed by any officer appointed by the "CEO"
It would be interesting to see some use of these tools for cooperative effort.
DingoBoi
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:53 am
#6
/waves
LonelyGhost wrote:
Corporations are most oftenseen asglobe-spanning, money grubbing, power-hungry, irresponsible, nasty entities whos sole purpose in life is to make their owners and investors rich withouta care of who it hurts and if thier presence is good for humankind. hehehehe
Ethalsar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:55 pm
#8
DocSavag wrote:Right now to my mind there are only two ways to collective store money. The guild hall treasure and the city hall treasury... It would be interesting to see some use of these tools for cooperative effort.
The catch, of course, is that if you used a guild for business purposes, you've more than likely ruled out being in a hunting or PvP guild etc.
I don't know very much about PAs and how they work, etc - what sort of functions are available to the officers of a PA that might be relevant for a commercial PA?
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