Merchant Archive
Thread: Question for DocSavag
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SunCrusherTx
Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:50 am
#1
Can you ask the devs to give us a timeframe and definitive plan of action before implementing anything? And no, I'm not asking for a timeframe right now, just whenever they work it out and decide when and whatthey want to do it.
I'm not asking for thisso that we can debate it/argue it to death, as that will be done anyway. I'm asking forthisso that we can be prepared for whatever they plan to do.
Pappi
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:42 pm
#2
SunCrusherTx wrote:Can you ask the devs to give us a timeframe and definitive plan of action before implementing anything? And no, I'm not asking for a timeframe right now, just whenever they work it out and decide when and whatthey want to do it.I'm not asking for thisso that we can debate it/argue it to death, as that will be done anyway. I'm asking forthisso that we can be prepared for whatever they plan to do.
*shhh*, "timeframe" is a forbidden word.
to my knowledge, doc is currently working closely with the devs. so give him some time
SunCrusherTx
Wed Aug 04, 2004 9:24 am
#3
Pappi, I am giving them time. I'm notasking fora timeframe now. I'm wanting some realistic warning before the devs go and do anything to Merchants. I dont want a 2 hour notice of, "oh, we're purging all vendors for those that dont have the skills" post. Or a "oh, suprise, your vendors are gone post". Or a "Suprise, we purged everything over 125 items on your vendor" type post.
Pappi
Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:19 pm
#4
sweetie, I wish that's possible all the time... but right now they have other professions they're working on. I'm sure doc will give you guys as much warning as he is allowed to give you. (meaning as soon as the devs say it's ok to announce it, he will)
I'm waiting on response for requested bug fixes... welcome to the waiting room, pick up a magazine and have a seat.
I'm waiting on response for requested bug fixes... welcome to the waiting room, pick up a magazine and have a seat.
Mystyrys
Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:30 pm
#5
Well, myself, I am tired of living in dread of the infamous stealth "fix" or nerf, depending on your POV. It's happened too often to not dread it. Just as described above. You log in one day and find out you've been "fixed" with no warning whatsoever. Oooo, yeah that kind of stress is why I play, Ah huh!
Nope. I just spent 6 hours relisting my 30 day rollover stock. Spent 4 hours doing relisting the day before that and the day before that too. Over 2000 vendor mails just today. After I deleted 1000 vendor mails yesterday. This is a normal day. That's crazy. I am not doing it anymore.
I stock a lot of stuff. It's a profession "hazard." Master Tailor. Master Merchant. 6 vendors. My shop is in a merchant tent. I own 7 other tents that the other city/guildcrafter merchants use as well. I am forced to log in almost daily just to micromanage and I am tired of it. It's not worth the massive efforts, timesink and expenses,and it's not fun anymore.
They sneak in the vendor item limit nerf and if my stock gets stuck in item overage limbo -- I am screwed. So. I decided today I am giving up. I can't take the stress of wondering when it will hit and how much will the new limits be, and how will they enforce them, etc. I can't take it anymore. I've been a master merchant and master tailor for almost a year now and after today.... I just lost my mind. This isn't fun.
*waves bye-bye to being a master merchant and drops master tailor too.* I'm gonna go join the gunbunnies. They get to have more fun.
Message Edited by Mystyrys on 08-04-2004 08:33 PM
NJ62
Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:05 pm
#6
Worst case scenario: it still goes to TC first so you have advance warning of it in that way. Because I play on TC as my primary server, I might get blindsided if a change goes in without warning. But you'll get warning when it goes to TC. Okay, granted, it may not be the ideal number of days to rearrange your skills, dispose of stock, etc, but you will have some lag time between when it hits TC and when it hits live. My totally random estimate would be about a week (based on how long the ID revamp was on TC).
*Takes deep breath*
I'm just as stressed about this as you are - more so because I'm on TC. You gotta realize that any changes would be for the overall health of the game and profession, and we will all adapt. It may suck at first, yeah yeah I know.
What I take away from this is that any changes made are to benefit the profession and to make subsequent boxes worth having. Everyone may be "nerfed" but hopefully if done correctly, those who are abusing the system will "feel the sting" substantially more than those who have invested skill points in the profession. I realize though, that the uncertainty is probably worse than the ultimate plan, whatever it is.
*Takes deep breath*
I'm just as stressed about this as you are - more so because I'm on TC. You gotta realize that any changes would be for the overall health of the game and profession, and we will all adapt. It may suck at first, yeah yeah I know.
What I take away from this is that any changes made are to benefit the profession and to make subsequent boxes worth having. Everyone may be "nerfed" but hopefully if done correctly, those who are abusing the system will "feel the sting" substantially more than those who have invested skill points in the profession. I realize though, that the uncertainty is probably worse than the ultimate plan, whatever it is.
Message Edited by NJ62 on 08-04-2004 11:07 PM
Pappi
Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:45 pm
#7
trust me, I understand... I ran a decent-sized tailoring business (and still kinda do), started back when things drop out after 7 days. no fun. do what I do... if stocking is no longer as fun, do it less. nowadays I stock when I want, and restock whatever I feel like making. if you're not tight on money, it's nice and relaxing
I would suggest that you keep master merchant and tailor for now. the vendor limit should be reasonable for masters, although there are no definite numbers right now.
I would suggest that you keep master merchant and tailor for now. the vendor limit should be reasonable for masters, although there are no definite numbers right now.
Malankai
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:14 am
#8
I don't see how the setting a vendor limit is for the betterment of the game. Allow me to re-phrase that ... betterment of enhance player gameplay, enjoyment and satisfaction.
I realize that the issue by SOE is the database but how is that a customer problem? They are going to be implementing something that will cause nothing but pain and inconvenience to their customer base to better manage their database and that doesn't sit well with me and I'm sure, doesn't sit well with the majority of the customer base.
This is not the 'dropping merchant skills fix' type of situation (of which I support), the only benefit to this so-called 'fix' is for SOE - not the customer.
This is one wonky way to run a business. Database 1st, Customer 2nd.
DocSavag
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:42 am
#9
We almost never get much notice of changes like this until they are on TC or due to go to TC in a few days. The reason is that very often coding takes longer than expected and things get pushed. When that happens people scream about it so they just don't give us advanced warning in most cases.
I'll let you know the minute I have anything to release on any merchant chagnes.
I'll let you know the minute I have anything to release on any merchant chagnes.
Raijen_ArDesh
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:44 am
#10
DocSavag wrote:
I'll let you know the minute I have anything to release on any merchant chagnes.
Thanks Doc
Mystyrys
Fri Aug 06, 2004 5:02 pm
#11
*heavy sigh* I used to feel the upcoming vendor item limits were a horrible plan, despite understanding the why of needing to do it. (And that it was never "intended" for vendors to be limitless) It was mostly a knee-jerk reaction to the draconian limits first proposed of only 100 items per vendor. Such a drastic reduction in item listing on a vendor seriously impacts current trade practices for Tailors and Armorsmiths especially. It is a necessary evil though so that they can also stopeveryone from using vendors just for item storage with no intentions of ever selling what's on there, and to do away with all thoseso-called "monopolies."
Yep. We'll adjust when it hits. It will hurt, but things will settle down to a new status quo after a while. It always does.
What bothers me mostly now is not that they are going to limit items per vendor and spread them around the skill trees more favorably (a la CH style), but that we still, after all this time, have no clue how or when they are going to actually do this thing.
Some clue to what the limits will be per vendor, depending on merchant skill levels? Some clue to how they will enforce losing vendor functionality for those whono longer have the requisite merchant skills? (I do, so not an issue for me, but it is one of the BIG issues for those who don't.) Some clue to how they intend to implement the new limits on vendors that have exceeded limits already listed? A crumb of a clue to how this will be done? How may be more important then when. Knowing how might reduce the worry. Or confirm it.
Scene: You log in one day and find out everything you had listed just rolled over to stockroom because you exceeded the master merchant 6 vendors item limit. You must now destroy or secure trade only all stock on hand until you meet the new limits. You have 7 days before auto-delete does it for you. You also discover that you cannot continue using your current vendors, but must completely empty them, destroy them, and recreate and restock all new ones, because vendor "fixes" aren't retroactive????
Oooohhhh, sounds fun.
I know that at my current levels of stock I generally keep on my vendors, that 2 weeks to a few days to zero days notice of the new vendor limits will not be enough time to off-load that much stock. Not unless I have a fire sale or simply destroy everything that rolls over at 30 days and can't be relisted until I meet the new lower vendor limits. I certainly don't have the lots free to drop that many houses just to hold overage stock. Which, come to think of it, is what they wish to do. Reduce the load on the database. Get rid of all those "extras" and on-hold 1000 schem runs of everything we've all been making. Okay. I understand and have to agree. It needs doing. And it will change the economy and mechanics of being a merchant in big ways. It will be interesting times indeed.
An impending hammer of doom with no idea how hard it will hit or how it will hit or when it will hit... too much pressure.
I'm having a fire sale next week and downsizing and reorganizing my entire tailor business. I'm tired of worrying about it.
DocSavag
Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:47 pm
#12
The time is now. I've known for a couple of days and have been working with TH on the details. I'm still working on pushing the numbers up. a bit especially at master.
DragonFire7
Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:22 pm
#13
For some professions limiting to 100items isn't so bad..namely chef..they carry crates of 3-4 main foods..that everyone uses... But for professions like Armorsmith..I cannot consider my vendors stocked unless I have over 300 Items...I have to stock Stun Composite, Kinetic Composite and my Easily sliced Electricity Composite as well as ubese...thats 9 piece per suit...thats 11 suits of one type per vendor? on good days I sell more then 11suits easily.
The devs need to realize what is more harmfull to their DB us real merchants who stock a good vendor and have these vendors in multiple locations, who feel shame if there vendor is empty...Or the exploiters who abuse the system and have vendors free of the Skill points required... We have all seen these exploiters reactions and the number of them is ridiculus. If the devs need to help the DB kill off the exploited Vendors...then after that..come back and say look guys it didn't help as much as we'd hope..lets talk reduction in size... NOT BEFORE!
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