Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant fix a window to a new type of Grief Play?
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Kruwath
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:18 am
#1
First, I am not a frequent reader or poster in the forums as I prefer to play the game.
Second, this is just an observation not a stand for or against the item cap or other such changes,I have made my comments on that elsewhere.
From what I read on the merchant forum one of the reasons for limiting vendors is that there is a percived monopoly run by hardcore gamers.
Consider the following scenario:
A new crafter for example a weaponsmith, has his one vendor from business III.
He has a few pistols and the like for say a reasonable amount of credits for a new player.
A Hardcore Crafter or one of the crafters friends discover the store and decides to put the crafter out of business.
They plunder the vendor(with freshly made Alts) making it devoid of anything for sale whith just a little loss to their creditline.
A player comes and visits the now empty vendor and thinks "bah empty as all the others I will go to the mega mall, ok its expencive but.."
The New Crafter discovers his plundered (50 items max vendor) and will probably structure ban them.
The Hardcore Crafter checks back or have someone check back and plunder again and again and again until lthe New Crafter simply quits.
This can also be used to remove vendors from the map in a similar fasion.
So having a large stock in your vendors is "protection" from "monopolies".
So in a large crafting guild or crafting corporation you can effectively remove most of the competition with this new system.
Bring on the Flamethrowers.
Second, this is just an observation not a stand for or against the item cap or other such changes,I have made my comments on that elsewhere.
From what I read on the merchant forum one of the reasons for limiting vendors is that there is a percived monopoly run by hardcore gamers.
Consider the following scenario:
A new crafter for example a weaponsmith, has his one vendor from business III.
He has a few pistols and the like for say a reasonable amount of credits for a new player.
A Hardcore Crafter or one of the crafters friends discover the store and decides to put the crafter out of business.
They plunder the vendor(with freshly made Alts) making it devoid of anything for sale whith just a little loss to their creditline.
A player comes and visits the now empty vendor and thinks "bah empty as all the others I will go to the mega mall, ok its expencive but.."
The New Crafter discovers his plundered (50 items max vendor) and will probably structure ban them.
The Hardcore Crafter checks back or have someone check back and plunder again and again and again until lthe New Crafter simply quits.
This can also be used to remove vendors from the map in a similar fasion.
So having a large stock in your vendors is "protection" from "monopolies".
So in a large crafting guild or crafting corporation you can effectively remove most of the competition with this new system.
Bring on the Flamethrowers.
Enix_Dayspring
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:30 am
#2
You know, when the game was still being developed people were worried about rich players driving people out of business. But you know what? It doesnt happen. It never happened in the 7 or 8 year old player economy of UO, and it doesn't happen in SWG.
Wealthy crafters get that way because of their dedication to their craft and their customers. Not by sabotaging the guy that is selling D-18s or Chitin Armor. It is a completely unrealistic paranoia that does not take place in reality.
And if it did, whywould yourweaponsmithquit? He's selling all his weapons and making as much money as he wants for them which gives him more money to improve his equipment. To think that the billionaire weaponsmith next door is so greedy and has so much time on his hands that he would try to ruin your dinky little business which likely sells subpar weapons to his own is completely unrealistic.
Iannyen
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:49 am
#3
New Weaponsmith: "Oh No! Some one has bought all50 items I listed at the prices I listed them! How diabolical!"
Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Maybe you should make more."
New Weaponsmith: "No! I quit! I cannot continue to make weapons and sell them! Its not right!"
Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Umm.. dude...."
Is this pretty much the insidious ploy you had in mind?
Jawakamochashake
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:52 am
#4
See the court documents of Netscape versus Microsoft to see that these
things can and do happen.
DocSavag
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:56 am
#5
Iannyen wrote:New Weaponsmith: "Oh No! Some one has bought all50 items I listed at the prices I listed them! How diabolical!"Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Maybe you should make more."New Weaponsmith: "No! I quit! I cannot continue to make weapons and sell them! Its not right!"Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Umm.. dude...."Is this pretty much the insidious ploy you had in mind?
Yea could someone pelase grief me by buying all my merchandise every day? The price will double every day..you can handle that right?
BrohenAco
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:57 am
#6
if only i had a next door neighbor that bought everything i put for sale.....lol...i wish that would happen.....but big time crafters in star wars are usually only concerned with themselves and making good stuff....too busy to worry about mr. noob crafter.....
People will gravitate to people who make the best weapons., best armor, best pets, best meds......you only make money if you sell good things....putting little guys out of business is not happening in this game....cause you have you good stuff...you will sell it and you will make money..
Don't let the boogie man get you tonight my friend
Shaun (HE)
joined42904
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:58 am
#7
Iannyen is of course right.
I used to sell ubese for 60k a suit. I had to raise my prices because folks buy it faster than I can stock it.
Now...I know it's worth more than that on my server. And I put it up so that it would be a loss leader and get folks to come in and check out my composite, which is also low priced but on which I actually make money.
It worked for the most part. But I have folks coming in and buying 8-12 suits of ubese at a time. That's not something I look on very favorably but there's no way to prevent it. It meant that I couldn't use loss leaders to boost my business.
I wish there were some way to limit items purchased from certain vendors to 2 per person per day or something. Unfortunately, there isn't.
But think about it.... The new smith got what he wanted for the items. Maybe next time he'll ask for a little more. Some profit can be used for harvs, to buy power, to buy resources, to run factories, etc. Whoever bought this guy out probably did him a favor. Only structureban if you don't want the process repeated.
Keep in mind that 50 items is what? One or two crates for most goods? Ok...time to put up another crate or two. Pretty simple imo.
Craftica
Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:01 am
#8
I don't really consider this 'griefing' but rather 'business'.
Several times people have come and bought multiple suits of armor from me. Either they are stocking up, or they are reselling them (which does happen). Either way, I make the sale for the price I want and could really care less.
The annoying thing will be the non-stop continual restock for crafters like myself that have decent sales volume. If a vendor gets emptied over and over, then perhaps the crafter should consider raising their prices to meter the traffic on it.
As a result, expect prices to soar if the Merchant changes go through as they are on Test Center.
Sevardos
Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:11 am
#9
joined42904 wrote:
Iannyen is of course right.
I used to sell ubese for 60k a suit. I had to raise my prices because folks buy it faster than I can stock it.
Now...I know it's worth more than that on my server. And I put it up so that it would be a loss leader and get folks to come in and check out my composite, which is also low priced but on which I actually make money.
It worked for the most part. But I have folks coming in and buying 8-12 suits of ubese at a time. That's not something I look on very favorably but there's no way to prevent it. It meant that I couldn't use loss leaders to boost my business.
I wish there were some way to limit items purchased from certain vendors to 2 per person per day or something. Unfortunately, there isn't.
But think about it.... The new smith got what he wanted for the items. Maybe next time he'll ask for a little more. Some profit can be used for harvs, to buy power, to buy resources, to run factories, etc. Whoever bought this guy out probably did him a favor. Only structureban if you don't want the process repeated.
Keep in mind that 50 items is what? One or two crates for most goods? Ok...time to put up another crate or two. Pretty simple imo.
Loss leaders do not work in a gaming environment and gaming economy. Loss leaders only work in driving traffic when there is significant advertising put behind it to get the word out. That is not possible in a game unless SOE introduces TV, PRINT and RADIO media. Oh, and an Advertising Executive and Production profession 
You only think your loss leaders are working -I'm telling you they are not. All you're effectively doing is leaving credits on the table. I will bet that if you raised your prices of your loss leaders, sales won't change much. And if they do, you're still making more credits because the loss is offset by profitability.
Hero_DarkJedi
Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:17 am
#10
Kruwath wrote:
First, I am not a frequent reader or poster in the forums as I prefer to play the game.
Second, this is just an observation not a stand for or against the item cap or other such changes,I have made my comments on that elsewhere.
From what I read on the merchant forum one of the reasons for limiting vendors is that there is a percived monopoly run by hardcore gamers.
Consider the following scenario:
A new crafter for example a weaponsmith, has his one vendor from business III.
He has a few pistols and the like for say a reasonable amount of credits for a new player.
A Hardcore Crafter or one of the crafters friends discover the store and decides to put the crafter out of business.
They plunder the vendor(with freshly made Alts) making it devoid of anything for sale whith just a little loss to their creditline.
A player comes and visits the now empty vendor and thinks "bah empty as all the others I will go to the mega mall, ok its expencive but.."
The New Crafter discovers his plundered (50 items max vendor) and will probably structure ban them.
The Hardcore Crafter checks back or have someone check back and plunder again and again and again until lthe New Crafter simply quits.
This can also be used to remove vendors from the map in a similar fasion.
So having a large stock in your vendors is "protection" from "monopolies".
So in a large crafting guild or crafting corporation you can effectively remove most of the competition with this new system.
Bring on the Flamethrowers.
Great post .. spoken like a true alarmist.
The issue has been answered already ... but you forgot something ... what is that uber weaponsmith going to do with all the inventory?
Well ... they can't put it on their vendor as their vendor is full ... they can't put it on their storage vendor cause it's full ...can't put them in the bank cause that's full ... house? full ... PA? full of vendors now!!! ...
So the uber smith is just going to buy/delete the items. New crafter is encouraged ... look at all the credits ... they make more ... raise the prices ... sold out ... more encouragement ... more products ... higher prices ... etc, etc, etc.
Anybody that considers it griefing for a player to buy all of a product line ... or even empty your vendor ... well ... that's not griefing ... that's business. Raise your prices if you sell out to fast ... period.
EEMAN
Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:25 am
#11
DocSavag wrote:
Iannyen wrote:New Weaponsmith: "Oh No! Some one has bought all 50 items I listed at the prices I listed them! How diabolical! "Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Maybe you should make more."New Weaponsmith: "No! I quit! I cannot continue to make weapons and sell them! Its not right!"Friend of New Weaponsmith: "Umm.. dude...."Is this pretty much the insidious ploy you had in mind?
Yea could someone pelase grief me by buying all my merchandise every day? The price will double every day..you can handle that right?
actually all I have to do is buy everything once to get you delisted from the planet map.. you could restock and reslist but guess what.. I just screwed you out of being first or 2nd in a list of over 200 on corellia for that category. That actually IS grief play that only has to happen once.
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