Merchant Archive

Thread: After the Nerf ... the New Reality ... and New Economy ...

Hero_DarkJedi
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:51 pm
#1


Greets ...


Time for a *reality* check ... time to peek into the future of how things will work once Pub 10 goes live. Here is the single biggest thing that is going to happen to the economy once this happens ... and it's not been discussed.


Players are going to pay more for items, buy more of them, and settle for lessor quality ... and be happy about it!!


Well ... they won't be happy for the first 30-60 days.


If you look at the economies on most servers today you end up looking at a "handful" of crafters in each profession that pretty much "rule the roost" in their crafting profession.


Reason? When it gets right down to it ... the issue is "storage". The crafters are able to "hoard" up huge amounts of resources ... "hoard" up huge amounts of components ... and "hoard"up hugh amounts of finished goods.


This allows a crafter, such as myself, to use today "best of server" resources ... I just went down my spread sheet .. and about 50% of the resources I use today to make my weapons spawned in August, September and October of last year. LAST YEAR!!


Due to storage, I am able to store all my resources ... all my components ... and all my finished goods ... and makes it very hard for any new weaponsmith to break into my market ... the only way for most of them is to "buy" their way in for 15mil credits or so and buy "best of server" resources. This is not how it was intended to be.


It was intended for the quailty of crafted goods to go up and down ... but with unlimited storage (and BER13's and Lot swapping) quailty of goods only goes "up" ... All the weapons I make today are better then the weapons I made 6 months ago.


Ok ... so ... what is going to happen?


Scarcity is the first thing we are going to see. Vendors that hold less items are going to run out quicker. So players will be spending more and more time shopping for the goods they want.


Run's on goods will be the next thing we see. Players will get feed up looking for stuff. When they do find what they want ... they will buy it ALL. Since they can not count on it being there the next time, they will stock up.


Prices going up with be the next thing we see. Vendors, trying to discourage runs on their products will start to move the prices up ... till they find the 'breaking' point.


Lessor Quality products will be the next thing that happens. Players, after having their armour down to zero ... be all out of food ... their weapons are broken ... well ... they will buy lessor quality armour, food and weapons from the first vendor they find that has something. After all ... some composite armour is better then no composite armour right? A weapon that shoots is better then one that doesn't right? and food that lasts only 2/3'rds as long is better then nothing right?


Premium Prices for Premium Products/Service will be next. For the crafter that is willing to "live" at their vendor, they will be able to charge much, much more then normal ... cause players will pay anything for a constant supply ... and for premium goods? through the roof on prices ... cause in the end, the best players are going to want the best equipment ... and the best crafters are going to charge a premimum cause it's such a big pain in the butt now to keep the vendors stocked.


Product Quality cycles??? I don't think this will fix that ... long time crafters (or folks that buy their way in) will still make top quality productsand not suffer from the basic game design that deals resource cycles. No, to fix that the dev's have to get back to heavies being BER7's:-)


So .. in the end? Crafters are going to make more credits, producing less goods, but willspend more time stocking / crafting them before. No more "I want to craft and fight" ... the crafters won't have the skill points to be anything in combat .. nor will they have the time. But, they will make more credits ... and there will be a LOT more crafters running around.


I understand why the Dev's are doing what they are doing ... and I don't believe the number will stay at 110 ... that was a low ball number that they know they are going to change ... but had they come to the community with the *real* number ... they could not "give" anything. This way they will look "good" when they respond to us and up the limits. I would hope for 500-700 items ... I have a feeling it will end up around 300.






'=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='=-*-='
Hero--[Hero Built]Weapons
~ ~M a s t e rW e a p o n S m i t hS i n c e8 / 1 8 / 0 3~ ~
[Coronet Mall, Corellia: 910, -4690]-[EPOC Mall, Naboo: -3950, 3885]
[Freedom City, Dantooine: -6040, 6160]-[Sandy Hills, Tatooine: 363, 3218]

Resource and Loot Drop Off: [Hero's Workshop, South Coronet, Corellia: 400, -6050]
Barris
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:59 pm
#2

Actually, all this will make for is a ton of pissed off crafters, an inflated economy, and people cancling their accounts.


Macro nerf hits = less crafters


Vender nerf hits = less crafters


People hording resouces = pointless to become a crafter if you can't get anything good, so why bother, =less crafters


And no ones going to be happy, not in 30 days, not in 60 days about low ball half assed bad products at high prices.

Kharn_JB
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:02 pm
#3

What's ironic is that one of the big excuses for the nerf is 'to give new crafters a chance against the monopolistic crafters', yet this nerf will make it much harder and expensive for new crafters to obtain what they need to even get anywhere near the level of the other crafters.
Bughunt
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:44 pm
#4


_____________

I understand why the Dev's are doing what they are doing ... and I don't believe the number will stay at 110 ... that was a low ball number that they know they are going to change ... but had they come to the community with the *real* number ... they could not "give" anything. This way they will look "good" when they respond to us and up the limits. I would hope for 500-700 items ... I have a feeling it will end up around 300.

_____________



I wish i could believe this but the Nurf Bat allways goes for the home run and not a bunt.


If there trying to fix the monopolies then remove the 12 point exp. crafting Magic items and then spawn consistent high quality resources all the time.


This to me has all has to do with Dev Ego and the way they believe the player run economy should be. So what ifa few toonscontrols a big junk of themarkets, thats real life, Microsoft is an example, even this game only runs on Windows. We still haveGame-cube and Playstation we can choose play are games, we can even go back to watching TV.


I know we allhad a chance to meet the Devs at FanFest, a great group of guys who have worked very hard to give us a great game, but when your in the middle of the forest you only see the tree in front of you. Its seems they only see the short term effect and not the long term effect on the impact of putting such a low number on the vendor storage will impact the game.


Lock what just the promise of raising intrest rates has done to slow down the us economy to a crawl has done these last few months. Same thing will happen here but a great set of Composite instead of being being around say300k will jump to 800k or 900k or maybe even higher. Forget high quality goods at a fare price.



Oh, new crafters will still have get the 12 point exp. crafting magic items to compete and since they will not be able to sale the value and get the 40 to 50 mil credtis to get there, they will not be able to make the stuff theat peeps will want to buy and they will give up.



Vendor Tent located on Rori in Galatorbria 380 -1836

Otio Eta - Elder Jedi
Otio-Eta - Munitions Master, RIS
astiateu
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:31 am
#5

Well one thing I do know is that players will adjust. Used to be a good buff was 6k and anyone rude enough to charge 10k was an **edit**. Now 10k is the going rate. The same will happen with all the other things you can buy in-game.


Problem really isn't that, as much as it going to limit what is out there to offer. Unless you've mastered the profession, like tailoring, you have no idea what is really out there unless you see it.


You also won't know you want or need something half the time, until you see it.


But, I can't stock my vendors with stuff I think you might want on impulse. I have to stock it only with the stuff I know will sell. You will see less and less of the unique stuff out there. But, since it seems many many many people are out here playing the game to be jedi and uber first person shooters, maybe the little things that make characters unique will slowly die out... and we'll be KOTOR with 4 outfit choices and a light saber. Fun FUN FUn!





Auto-it... leads to the dark side.
Rhazohn
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:41 am
#6

Forgot one small point into this brave new world being forged.


As crafters diminish, the remaining 'serious ones' will become victims of /tell hell as everyone & their long forgotten bothan cousins pesters them to 'make me the BEST!' Was a reality that drove a friend of mine from the WS trade because at the time, he was one of the top WS on our server.


Just my 2 credits



"War is War & Business is Business & War is Great for Busine$$"



Rhazohn Badwih - WanderInc

Wander in to WanderInc. Next to the shuttleport in Brenn, Naboo, Shadowfire



Rhazohn Badwih
WanderInc 8/2003 - 12/2005
Retired Master Artisan, Master Merchant, Casualty of the NGE
Infernius Raige - 10th lvl Human Fighter - Thelanis
astiateu
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:45 am
#7

Hehe I remember being a tailor and waiting for the screen to load so I could type /afk back in the day hahaha



Auto-it... leads to the dark side.
lemonella
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:20 am
#8

The logic behind your post is good, and it makes perfect sense. But, this will not work for the Master Tailors out there. The only thing we'll be able to do is raise our prices to prevent runs. A master tailor shop will only be successful after this launches if they camp their vendors. Even then, they won't be able to stock many clothing items, due to limited space.


And I don't think I've touched upon the fact that custom orders are a pain in the ass.I won't do them now, except for friends, and I won't do them after launch, except for friends. These changes will not make me love custom orders more. If someone really presses me for a custom order, they can send me $20.00 through Paypal, that is the only way in hell I'll do it. I know that sounds terrible, but there are so many master tailors who hate custom orders.


Why, you ask? heh...because customers never know what they want. They want tailors to make them one piece of clothing after another, so they can turn it down one piece at a time, until we make the one they want. They don't want to peruse the online catalogue of clothing that has names, and color charts, either. Custom order customers are difficult, at best. They are the reason why my vendors carry a huge selection of clothing, so I don't have to do that. I don't know of any other profession that has to deal with customers who are completely clueless about what they want, they just want something that looks "cool" and "unique", and have no problems with us using our resources and time to make one piece of clothing they don't like, after another.


Ok, enough ranting. These issues will hurt tailors most of all, in my opinion. There are too many clothing schematics to choose from and no way can we stock our vendors adequately, especially if we carry bio clothing, as well. And by the way, you men can forget about alot of tailors stocking masculine clothing. There isn't enough money in it to make up for the lack of space on our vendors. We'll stock clothing we know will sell, bio clothing and womens clothing. Sorry.


And if I were all of you, I'd start buying up furniture, fast. Your going to see a big scarcity of it except in factory crates in the near future. That goes for paintings as well. I'm also a master architect, and I'm not going to waste space on my limited vendors (and I"m almost master merchant), with furniture and paintings unless they're crated. And even then the selection will be limited. I'll concentrate on housing, city structures and harvesters. Good sellers and money makers. This game, in all of it's diversity, is going bye-bye, and it kind of makes me sad. It's going to be stale and boring after this change.
dirlook
Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:56 am
#9

I understand there should be a cap on vendors, but 110, come on...most vendors are run by Master Crafters, how many items can Masters craft ? MWS can craft over 65 final Weapons, not to mention the special schematic dropped weapons. So they can't even have 2 of each item on the vendor anymore ? Whats the deal...


This patch will make alot of crafters leave the crafting profession. Also it will push the gap between new player and more elite player apart. WS's will no longer stock new player weapons, so it will be alot harder for them to get better weapons. If they do they will be over priced and the new player will not be able to purchase them.


This will also make Merchants run all their 6 vendors, damn, what a pain in the azz, seriously...whats worse than walking into a Mall and seeing 60 vendors all stacking on top of each other? As some have suggested, Master Merchants can have a total of 660 items on all 6 of their vendors, what if they only had 1 vendor, allow them to have the 660 on that one vendor...such a neater and cleaner alternative...below is my suggestion...


Novice Merchant - 100 Items total over their 2 vendors (not allow Artisan to have a vendor ?)

Management 1 - 200 Items over the 3 vendors

Management 2 - 400 Items over the 4 vendors

Management 3 - 800 Items over the 5 vendors

Management 4 - 1600 Items over the 6 vendors

Master Merchant - 3500 Items over the 6...or allow for a 7th ?


Doing it this way will cut down alot of items being stored on vendors by Novice Merchants (people getting Novice just as storage)...


PS. Devs...you should of planned your DB storage a little better, didnt you see this coming ?? should've hired a DBA to plan your DB's out...
Bermag
Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:00 am
#10

Because of the generous vendor limits it is possible for new crafters to enter the market. That is becuase there are lots of resource dealers that have stock-piled good resources. But if you try to limit storage in all ways (both in actual storage and vendor limis; not necessary using vendors for storage but having a lto of stuff on vendors for sale) it is possible for new players to buy high quality resources.


If this get limited it will be even harder for new crafters since the old ws would still be able to have enough of the best resources (aymbe dropping some resources for stuff that don't sell very well).A stack of 100k last a long time (well except for handler resources).


Let say it was impossible to have lot trades etc and you have very limited storage. This would make it a lot harder for the new crafters since the guild crafters would rule. In a guild there are always a lot of people which have extra lots that they can share.


I am 100% sure that those changes will hurt the new crafter more than they will hurt the large scale crafters.


Besides that why should the large scale crafters be hurt really for be good in their profession. it is always possible to break into the market. When I mastered ws in january there were lot of long-time crafters that ruled the market. But I am now (together with my partner which is one reason we are that succesful) considered being one of the top-5 ws on my server and most certainly we are the largest seller of all. We made it to the top by working hard and findign ways to compete with the existing smiths.


Still a lot of room for competion. I see new ws going from unknown to a top name (hi Enigma) in a short period.


What is as important as resources is your reputation. You don't get that, you earn it.


Problem is that many new crafters think that ws (or AS) is an instant money machine and that you get rich just by mastering. You don't, it is a lof of hard work involved before you get there.


What is next? Maybe we should nerf those who are good in pvp. Lower their damage by 50% so the new pvp guy get a chance and don't get killed. It is not fair that they should be able to killme just because they are better.




---
Bermag [SiyBer Arms]

ex-NGE 12 pt Master Weaponsmith/FS Crafting Mastery- Wanderhome
Corellia: (Coronet -200, -5500) Dantooine Imp op -4422 -2383
High quality and low price
Now playing Eve
Okin_Sin
Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:56 am
#11

If this does go through, I think it will mean a much smaller variety ofthingsavailable. I play on Bria which I believe is the biggest server, if not its one of the biggest. Even on Bria right now you have a very hard time finding any armor that isn't Comp, some people sell Ubese and Wookie, but padded .. no way. Now if this Nerf goes through, you will never find anything but the main sellers. I presume this will be the way all proffesions will be handled. Weaponsmiths will only stock the most popular weapons, for example for Swordsman there will only be Powerhammers and Scythes. All of the other weapons will fall by the wayside. I myself am a Chef, and I know if the patch goes through the way it is now, my vendors will change a lot. I will ONLY be stocking Brandy, Bivoli, Ahrisa, Canape and Synthsteak cuz these are what sell the most. For people that want other foods, sorry don't have the room to stock it.
Bluebearpsx
Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:08 am
#12

lol actually all this means is......people will get fed up looking for things.......trade forums will become flooded........overload on forums they will crash........BLACK TUESDAY



_________________________________________________

Blood-Tyrant
Total Aggression Gaming (xTAGx)
Master Pikeman - Master Swordsman - Master Brawler
Crimsonsplat
Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:18 am
#13






Bluebearpsx wrote:

lol actually all this means is......people will get fed up looking for things.......trade forums will become flooded........overload on forums they will crash........BLACK TUESDAY







no. what it means is /account canceled.


I'm not going to camp my vendorsevery day to keep them in stock. For that matter, how the hell am I going to keep enough stuff on hand to keep them in stock? And finally: factory runs = 1000 items, vendor capacity = 660? **edit**????????


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