CUEmu - Thread Posts

mmaughme

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:49 pm

Merchant needs a consignment system, whereby a vendor may be rented to a crafter who has no vendor skills of their own, but is willing to enter into a contract with the Merchant for an agreed-upon period of time and an agreed-upon percentage of the crafter's sales.

For example, Weaponsmith (W)wants to sell his goods but doesn't have any Merchant skills. He enters into a contract with Merchant (M) for four weeks at a time, at 15% of his sales. M makes a vendor available, enters the contract period (in weeks) and the rental fee. W agrees to the terms, at which point he can then access the vendor.

The vendor is subject to M's abilities. If M doesn't have Advertising III, the vendor can't be registered. If M doesn't have Hiring IV, the vendor can't be clothed. Otherwise, W has access to all the vendor features M has.

M's access to the vendor is restricted, however. He can view it as would any customer, and can access the Consignments menu (which allows the rental terms to be set or modified), but can't withdraw W's sales or withdraw maintenance or Remove the vendor while W's using it.

Should M decide to drop Merchant or remove the vendor, he can't -- not until the current term has expired. M has agreed to a contract, and must live up to the terms of the contract, unless W also agrees that the current contract can be cancelled. Should an agreement be reached, W will have an additional 3 days in which to clear out the vendor, at which point the contract is null and void.

This is all off the top of my head. There may be problemsI haven't thought of in the past four or five minutes, which is why it's listed here as a proposal. Comment away...

Message Edited by mmaughme on 03-11-2004 03:10 PM

mmaughme

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:56 pm

#2

Hmm. An additional thought. Rather than rent individual vendors, a new building could be created -- an Emporium. Same contract idea as above, in that crafters can enter into a contract with the Merchant who holds the Emporium, allowing them access to the building for purposes of creating a new vendor and dropping it in a pre-determined location. Only the Merchant can decorate, as its his shop, but vendors can be added by crafters who have agreed to a duration and a fee, as above.

This building would have specific locations for a vendor to be placed. Think of the Enterprise's transport pads, for example. Or the haircutting stations in a salon. There are specific pads or stationsaround the vendor room where a vendor can be placed. A pad is rented to a crafter, who then has access to a vendor control panel for that pad.

Message Edited by mmaughme on 03-11-2004 02:57 PM

DocSavag

Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:53 pm

#3

As a merchant I would never agree to let someone else control my vendor with me having no powers over it. I just wouldn't. I really prefer a system that allows a crafter to place merchandise up for sale at a price they decide and a percantage that goes to me. I decide whether the offer is acceptable to me at those terms and approve the item for sale. When the sale is completed we both get an email and I get my percentage and he gets the rest.

This keeps the merchant involved in the transaction. Without the merchant being involved in the transaction he is useless in the whole process and will without a doubt become the mule that has been described elsewhere in this forum. I don't really believe that merchants will benefit from a system that makes them vendor rentals. We will have even harder time getting a crafter to agree to sell to us as they will rightly say..why should you get anything? You're not doing any of the work.

----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder

Naufragus

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:28 pm

#4

would you tie this to some level of merchant....like you have to have managemt 4 or would everyone get it at business 3?

Your consigmnet system is ok....but really how is different than what we have now...

Someone offers something to your vendor...You either buy or reject it and then resale it.

It sounds like in your system the person justs lists the item, we dont buy it but simply get a cut of the profit...and no risk and no capital outlay..

Thats basically renting the vendor.

As far as involvemnet, maybe i am the odd man out again but i dont want all this involvement...i would rather just give someone listing rights and let them do all the clicking and waiting for screens to load.

but thenn again i prefer to buy things off the vendors you want to take away and then resale them.

as you said the Merchant is really a needless middleman.

ChaoKuang

Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:15 pm

#5

How about this?

A merchant sets down a vendor. They can set this vendor as a 'Consigner.' People can use the vendor like the bazaar: The place items for sale, and the merchant places the % profit he earns from the sale, with the rest going to the person who put the item up? However, the merchant would be able to remove items for sale(but not retrieve them) if he deemed the item inappropriate(i.e. dice named "Holocron," etc)?

~*~Chao-Kuang~*~
~*~Kettemoore Server~*~
~*~Master of Entertainment~*~
~*~Zulian Zexxen~*~
~*~Naritus Server~*~
~*~Master of Entertainment~*~
~*~Zuli Zexxen~*~
~*~Naritus Server~*~
~*~Zulian's Evil Commando Clone!~*~

DocSavag

Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:48 am

#6

Naufragus wrote:

would you tie this to some level of merchant....like you have to have managemt 4 or would everyone get it at business 3?

Your consigmnet system is ok....but really how is different than what we have now...

Someone offers something to your vendor...You either buy or reject it and then resale it.

It sounds like in your system the person justs lists the item, we dont buy it but simply get a cut of the profit...and no risk and no capital outlay..

Thats basically renting the vendor.

As far as involvemnet, maybe i am the odd man out again but i dont want all this involvement...i would rather just give someone listing rights and let them do all the clicking and waiting for screens to load.

but thenn again i prefer to buy things off the vendors you want to take away and then resale them.

as you said the Merchant is really a needless middleman.

The system I described has the merchant making the final decision on what items are sold on his vendor and what items aren't. He is still responsible for Advertising, maintainting the shop and other general tasks. He isn't a mindless middleman in that scenario he is a business partner. All the clicking and screen loading can be made a lot better by redesigns in the interface that we have asked for.

Removing the merchant from the transaction removes his involvement entirely and makes him a vendor rentor. Its a system that doesn't appeal to me personally but I guess it does to some of you. If that is what you want I"ll pitch it. I personally feel it is the wrong direction for merchants and will only fuel the arguement of some that the profession isn't useful and should be removed. Keeping the merchant involvedin the transaction making him a partner instead of a lackey who shows up only to put down your vendor seems to be a better route. This system sounds too much like a Vendor Handler profession that has me training vendors and selling them to people.. too bad I can only sell 6 of them I suppose. I don't have any use for them myself though because no one is going to sell me merchandise if they can just do it all themselves and in the end tell me what percentage I will get. In fact most of the vendors won't even be real merchant vendors they will be the "Mules" you described Naufraugus because they won't require any real interaction by anyone but the person loading it and that would no longer have to be a practicing merchant.

I really wish there were a way to foster real wholesale relationships in this game.

----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder

Bey

Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:06 am

#7

I'm with DocSavag here. I do not want to be a vendor vending machine...

Allowing people to sell from my vendor would be interesting however...if the vendor allowed setting up "contracts", meaning rules for given types of items.

Example : Lets say I want to give a guildie permission to sell clothing from one of the vendors in my armor shop. ( Prices are fictional - any resemblance to real prices is completely coincidental )

New contract : SomeNick (Clothing)

Item:Spec-Ops Pack
Stock Limit : 10
Price : 1000
Markup : 500

Item Type : Spec-Ops Duster
Stock Limit : 10
Price : 1500
Markup : 500

This would allow SomeNick to sell these two items to your vendor up to the set limit. So if you already have 8 packs of the given type for sale ( + stockroom )the vendor will only accept two more.

You remain the owner of the vendor : The "partner" has no access to any admin functions. The partner can onlysell the agreed upon items. And only up to a given limit.

To avoid "renting out" vendors, or at least limit it, we could have a rule saying that vendors with the above functionality will need to be in astructure you own. Also, they would stop working if ownership of the structure changes to someone else : The vendor would not resume working until the "consignment rules" are removed.

This would still leave the possibility of "renting out" vendors in strucures the merchant own, but if he/she wants to use his/her structures that way, I'd say they should be allowed to

Xexo Sparks
No longer : Master Armorsmith / Master Merchant / Master Artisan due to lack of content for non combat characters

Legende

Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:09 am

#8

I like the idea of being able to let others use my vendors as a "mini-bazaar" but with the ability to restrict what they sell on it, as the last post stated...

________________________________________________________
Legende Des'Krieges
Elder Twi'lek Doctor of Shadowfire
Master Doctor since 29 Aug 03 - 12pt Crafter
A tribute to CSR-TerryS || Best SEA ever!

mmaughme

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:09 pm

#9

DocSavag

As a merchant I would never agree to let someone else control my vendor with me having no powers over it. I just wouldn't. I really prefer a system that allows a crafter to place merchandise up for sale at a price they decide and a percantage that goes to me. I decide whether the offer is acceptable to me at those terms and approve the item for sale. When the sale is completed we both get an email and I get my percentage and he gets the rest.

This keeps the merchant involved in the transaction. Without the merchant being involved in the transaction he is useless in the whole process and will without a doubt become the mule that has been described elsewhere in this forum. I don't really believe that merchants will benefit from a system that makes them vendor rentals. We will have even harder time getting a crafter to agree to sell to us as they will rightly say..why should you get anything? You're not doing any of the work.

In your first paragraph you're basically agreeing with my proposal, in being able to rent vendor space to a crafter. But then you refer to "my vendor," when my proposal is that you rent an entirely new vendor to the crafter in question. You're also adding a bunch of additional involvement which just makes the system more complex -- deciding whether each item is acceptable, approving each item for sale, etc.

We can already do that by setting up a vendor, and having a crafter come in and hand you a bunch of items to be sold. You either have to buy the item and put it up for sale, in which case there's no guarantee anybody will buy it, or you have to keep track of all the monies received for purchases on that vendor, and tip them back to the crafter (less your cut). My proposal takes all this extra work out of the way, and (as mentioned below) augments the Merchant by providing them with an additional ability they don't currently possess.

It's an enhancement, not a redesign of the Merchant system. Merchants would still be able to operate just as they do now, but those interested in providing this service would have the ability to do so.

In your second paragraph, you're saying my suggestion removes the Merchant from the process, and just makes them into a vendor renting mule.

There are tons of crafters out there who don't have any vendor skills, and don't have the points to spare for vendor skills. As mentioned, this suggestion augments the existing Merchant system, by giving them more to do. Consignments aren't currently in the game. Adding them would give the Merchant the ability to provide an additional service to their community -- proving non-Merchants with vendor space. The entire system relies upon a contract between the Merchant and the crafter, and an ongoing renewal of said contract when the term expires. I don't see how this is removing the Merchant from the entire process.

Further, I don't understand your argument that the crafter is going to question why you should get anything out of the deal, as you're not doing anything. Considering the Merchant went through the trouble to train Merchant in the first place, and is now providing a vendor for use to a crafter who doesn't have any vendor skills of their own, I don't see how you can even ask the question. If the crafter doesn't feel the Merchant deserves any payment for their providing a vendor -- with clothing options, ad barking, a planetary registry, etc. -- then the crafter certainly doesn't need to enter into the deal.

Personally, I'd love to be able to release my Merchant skills and instead rent a vendor from another Merchant in my city.

Naufragus

would you tie this to some level of merchant....like you have to have managemt 4 or would everyone get it at business 3?

Your consigmnet system is ok....but really how is different than what we have now...

Someone offers something to your vendor...You either buy or reject it and then resale it.

It sounds like in your system the person justs lists the item, we dont buy it but simply get a cut of the profit...and no risk and no capital outlay..

Thats basically renting the vendor.

As far as involvemnet, maybe i am the odd man out again but i dont want all this involvement...i would rather just give someone listing rights and let them do all the clicking and waiting for screens to load.

but thenn again i prefer to buy things off the vendors you want to take away and then resale them.

as you said the Merchant is really a needless middleman.

I'd probably set the Emporium at Master , and Consignments at Management III. The impetus to gain the additional branches in Merchant (Hiring IV, Advertising III, etc.) would be to provide those additional services to your customers (the crafters renting vendor space).

It's quite different from what we have now. Now, somebody needs to offer an item we need to buy and then resell. But you've then spent the money buying something that may not be resold (i.e. somebody else might not buy it). This allows the crafter to sell the item themselves, without any capital outlay or risk on your part, as you've mentioned.

I don't really want all the additional involvement, either. I've tried the bit with running a vendor on somebody else's behalf, and it's a pain in the ass.

ChaoKuang

How about this?

A merchant sets down a vendor. They can set this vendor as a 'Consigner.' People can use the vendor like the bazaar: The place items for sale, and the merchant places the % profit he earns from the sale, with the rest going to the person who put the item up? However, the merchant would be able to remove items for sale(but not retrieve them) if he deemed the item inappropriate(i.e. dice named "Holocron," etc)?

Certainly that's another approach, but basically just turns you into a bazaar operator. What I'm suggesting here is proving your town's Weaponsmith with a vendor all his own, on which customers can find weapons without having to also grind through data disks and looted clothing and 3 units of crappy aluminum for 6000 credits.

DocSavag

The system I described has the merchant making the final decision on what items are sold on his vendor and what items aren't. He is still responsible for Advertising, maintainting the shop and other general tasks. He isn't a mindless middleman in that scenario he is a business partner. All the clicking and screen loading can be made a lot better by redesigns in the interface that we have asked for.

Removing the merchant from the transaction removes his involvement entirely and makes him a vendor rentor. Its a system that doesn't appeal to me personally but I guess it does to some of you. If that is what you want I"ll pitch it. I personally feel it is the wrong direction for merchants and will only fuel the arguement of some that the profession isn't useful and should be removed. Keeping the merchant involved in the transaction making him a partner instead of a lackey who shows up only to put down your vendor seems to be a better route. This system sounds too much like a Vendor Handler profession that has me training vendors and selling them to people.. too bad I can only sell 6 of them I suppose. I don't have any use for them myself though because no one is going to sell me merchandise if they can just do it all themselves and in the end tell me what percentage I will get. In fact most of the vendors won't even be real merchant vendors they will be the "Mules" you described Naufraugus because they won't require any real interaction by anyone but the person loading it and that would no longer have to be a practicing merchant.

I really wish there were a way to foster real wholesale relationships in this game.

Again, I'm not talking about giving over your vendor for use by the crafter, but renting them a vendor of their own. You don't need to worry about what might be showing up on "your" vendor, as it's basically their vendor -- at least for the term of the contract. Make it one week, two weeks, four weeks, whatever -- it's up to both parties when the contract is "written."

Again, you're referring to the Merchant as a "mindless middleman." Why? How does this make the Merchant a brain-dead tool of the crafter? It doesn't change anything about the way you currently do business, and in fact you don't even need to partake in the service if you don't want. But there will be Merchants who would love to give up their skills and rent a vendor from somebody else.

I also don't see why this would add fuel to the complaints that this is a useless profession. As far as I'm concerned, I only see this as improving the usefulness of the Merchant profession. Part of the problem I have with Merchant now is that pretty much every crafter needs to take it in order to sell their wares without standing outside the Coronet starport spamming "composite for sale." Many of the Merchants in my guild have griped about needing to spend all those skill points.

Further, it doesn't turn Merchant into a Vendor Handler. Again I need to say it's an addition to the current Merchant skill set.

And the crafter isn't telling you what percentage you're going to get, you decide that when you make the vendor available, which is why both parties agree to the terms of the contract and accept it.

DocSavag

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:26 pm

#10

Again, you're referring to the Merchant as a "mindless middleman." Why? How does this make the Merchant a brain-dead tool of the crafter? It doesn't change anything about the way you currently do business, and in fact you don't even need to partake in the service if you don't want. But there will be Merchants who would love to give up their skills and rent a vendor from somebody else.

I will have absolutely no chance to get a real partnership under this scenario. Everyone will be getting their vendor from the "Merchant Mule" account that now doesn't have to log in more often than once or twice a month to refresh the contracts. There is no day to day reason for him to even log in to the server. Crafters will offer 1-2% per sale because after all "I'm doing all the work." Most serious non-crafter merchants will not use the system because there is no profit in it and most crafters will either have to get merchant themselves or one person in the guild will buy an account that can rent themtheir vendors at no cost.

I agree that managing the consignment sales as it is today is a pain in the ass. That is why I want better tools to do that. But removing the merchant from the transaction is not consignment it is equipment rental and will be abused and exploited until no one can really make any money out of being a merchant.

----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder

Naufragus

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:34 pm

#11

DocSavag wrote:

The system I described has the merchant making the final decision on what items are sold on his vendor and what items aren't. He is still responsible for Advertising, maintainting the shop and other general tasks. He isn't a mindless middleman in that scenario he is a business partner. All the clicking and screen loading can be made a lot better by redesigns in the interface that we have asked for.

Removing the merchant from the transaction removes his involvement entirely and makes him a vendor rentor. Its a system that doesn't appeal to me personally but I guess it does to some of you. If that is what you want I"ll pitch it. I personally feel it is the wrong direction for merchants and will only fuel the arguement of some that the profession isn't useful and should be removed. Keeping the merchant involvedin the transaction making him a partner instead of a lackey who shows up only to put down your vendor seems to be a better route. This system sounds too much like a Vendor Handler profession that has me training vendors and selling them to people.. too bad I can only sell 6 of them I suppose. I don't have any use for them myself though because no one is going to sell me merchandise if they can just do it all themselves and in the end tell me what percentage I will get. In fact most of the vendors won't even be real merchant vendors they will be the "Mules" you described Naufraugus because they won't require any real interaction by anyone but the person loading it and that would no longer have to be a practicing merchant.

I really wish there were a way to foster real wholesale relationships in this game.

i still dont understand how it is different than what we already have.

Someone lists something

Merchant stops what he is doing, take 3 shuttles and drives out to his store and clicks the mercahnt interface and waits for it to load.

He then goes to offers and sees what items are being offered

He he like he buys and then lists them..if he doesnt like he rejects.

Thats the way offers currently works....the "consignment" is just a needless step...

But Doc please realize that everyone doesnt want this "involvement"...we dont want to be tied to our vendors babysitting them...

I jsut tell people to drop stuff on my vendor when its conveinent for them and i check it when its convient for me.

I make many deals with people all thru emails and tells and have never hooked up face to face. i like it like that.

I hate have to list and price my own crap...i have no desire to deal with someones elses...

Some people know what i need and just drop stuff off if they happen to be passing by...

Sorry to tell you doc but merchant is already Vendor Handler...

Once you add item limits and try and take the other vendors away thats all we will be...

Vendors should work just like factories and harvestors...there should be admin and "hopper" rights.

Now under your "consigment"m propsal lit sounds like you are the one creating the vendor mule...there i sno risk to the merchant..if it sells he get a %, if not he isnt out any money and might possibly still get a listing fee. so people are simply using the merchant to unload their goods...

i would jsut rather give those people vendors of their own and not be the middle man

DocSavag

Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:52 pm

#12

Thats the way offers currently works....the "consignment" is just a needless step: Actually there are additions to how offer works in two fundimental ways. 1) The supplier sets the price in the vendor and not verbally or in email for the merchant to try to remember how to price it. 2) When the sale is done the system takes care of the payments.

There is no risk to the Merchant: I know that is what a consignment system does..that is the point of it. In a consignment system the merchant sells merchandise he otherwise wouldn't sell because he isn't risking capital on it. The benefit is that the supplier has more say in what is sold because he isn't getting paid up front for items that might not sell. This is only ONE type of relationship. The wholesale relationship also needs development as well.

I hate have to list and price my own crap...i have no desire to deal with someones elses... Then don't operate as a reseller. No one is asking you to. You are the supplier in this relationship anyway since you only sell your own stuff anyways.

i would jsut rather give those people vendors of their own and not be the middle man The problem is that you are insistant that because you don't want to be a middleman that the job of middleman must be eliminated or made so unprofitable that it disappears entirely.

But Doc please realize that everyone doesnt want this "involvement"...we dont want to be tied to our vendors babysitting them... then don't take on the role of reselling merchandise. Either sell it yourself on your own vendor that you have the skill points for or sell your merchandise wholesale to one or more merchants who DO enjoy working with their vendors and selling to the public.

----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder

Naufragus

Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:39 pm

#13

DocSavag wrote:

is equipment rental

doc...

thats bascially what merchants are destined to become once item limits go in and/or the take away already placed vendors.

people are only interested in the equipment...there is nothing else in this profression but the vending machines

Merchant Archive

Thread: Merchant Proposal: Consignments