Merchant Archive
Thread: Suggestion for a REAL mercantile system in SWG (DEVS plz Read)
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Buka_Starwalker
Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:39 am
#1
The inability for a crafter to get his products out to a customer is one of the reasons that so many vendors are empty. A great solution for this would be to allow the Merchant Profession to grant crafters (at novice crafter of any type ONLY) the ability to place their goods on a merchants vendor. For a percentage of the total sales based on a slider that can be set by the merchant a crafter can place his goods on that vendor and actually STOCK the vendor with goods as needed. A good merchant can therefore sell space to multiplecrafters and it would be up to those crafters to keep those vendors stocked or they loose their SELLERS RIGHTS to that vendor. Once the total space on the vendor is filled any crafters that have more goods would either look for more merchants to grant them vendor space or wait until the premium selling areas have space avilable to sell their goods. Supply and demand. Guild hall mini-malls would be coveted then say a lone small house in the boonies.
The merchant would maintain the rights to allow certian players to drop items into the vendor. Revenue would be created for the merchant based on a percentage of the total sales. A merchant is a distributor they DO NOT have to bea crafter. Two of their titles after all are Propogandist and Entrepreneur. They take care of the advertiseing and getting customers to the place of business and the crafter concentrates on doing what they do best CRAFT! Everyone wins
EXAMPLE:
Merchant A and Crafter A make an agreement to work together. The crafter makes 10 T21 rifles and is allowed a space of 15 items on a vendor to immediately be sold by the crafter. Those T21's are placed on the the vendor for 100k each and the merchant has a setting for the percentage out of the sale total they get for having a stationary vendor in a good location and a well decored tent/house. The maint is paid for by the merchant out of the percentage of proceeds of the sale. Merchant A gets an emial that he has receieved 15% of the sale of the T21 or 15k and Crafter A gets an email he has made 85k of the total of 100k.
The crafter makes the items and gets the biggest bulk of the profit and the merchant gets a cut for allowing a place that is static and recognized for having lots of repeat customers. Merchants with prime locations near Coronet starport could charge maybe 25% instead of 15% since they receive more customers being that they are located near the hub of the galaxy.
A good merchant that has 12 vendors would have say 20 crafters that can drop items into his vendors and keep them stocked. The crafter has an outlet to sell their goods and not waste skill points that can be used to have either a 2nd crafting proffesion such as Chef and BE or make their secondary profession a combat class. A merchant would not need to be a crafter since the items sold come from the crafters. The merchant will do what they do best. Advertise, promote, create new business deals with new crafters, redecorate their place of business to stay current and work on outsmarting their competition.
The current situation:
Crafter must trade all items to the merchant and have the merchant place them on the vendors. Crafters must waste skill points to be merchants that can be better assigned to making their secondary profession complimentary to their crafting profession, such as BE/Tailor. If a merchant is not available to trade the items with you in the current environment your items never make it to market period. The crafter is forced to spam near the starports and cause a nuisance. This is the merchants jobs not crafters! lol
Ok joking aside, giving the crafter the ability to farm out their products across multiple planets and give them the role of stocking them yet not having to worry about details such as advertising or reselling unsold items should be the merchants job. This is exactly how it works like in the real world. Why can't this system be implemented into SWG?
The main reason to allow this type of environment for merchants/crafters is that the revenue stream for a sold item is silly now. You trade an item to a merchant, they put the item on a vendor to sell for you, the items sells, the email of the sale goes to the merchant and not the crafter so the crafter never gets paid until the merchant logs in. What if the merchant goes on a 1 month vacation? Does the entire systems just fall aparts? Sadly, this is exactly what happens now. And god forbid the merchant accidentally deletes the email of the sale of the item. Then the crafter may not even get paid for their hard work at all. This also happens.
Having a split email (85%crafter/15% merchant) that sends the proceeds of the items sales minus the merchants cut would encourage more crafters to use vendors in this fashion. This would make merchants a true mercantile power. Those merchants that have true business savvy would get the best crafters come to them since they are known to be able to move products out to customers very fast. After all, who wants to make a sale tomorrow when u can make one today =)
Meandra
Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:18 am
#2
Or, you can sell your crafted goods to a merchant and they don't have to do any extra coding. I dunno. What do you think the devs will choose?
ChowderClamus
Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:49 am
#3
I like this idea a lot! It would take the tediousness of maintaining vendors from others away and also give the crafters more control over how their goods are sold.
kandee
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:08 am
#4
Meandra wrote:
Or, you can sell your crafted goods to a merchant and they don't have to do any extra coding. I dunno. What do you think the devs will choose?
But this will result in empty vendors, because unless merchants have a ton of credits they cant afford to buy the items to stock on a vendor.
joined42904
Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:12 am
#5
Why is this proposal to allow other people to stock merchants' vendors still alive and being made by the vendor exploiters?
Think for a minute.
If this goes through, folks will do cross-server vendor trades. The sliding bars will be set at zero or a small percentage. And folks will get their vendors without committing skill points. Which is what the exploiters really want in the first place.
Same with these ridiculous ideas to allow merchants to "make" a vendor that is supposed to be an NPC.
Cafa
Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:34 am
#6
joined42904 wrote:
Why is this proposal to allow other people to stock merchants' vendors still alive and being made by the vendor exploiters?
Think for a minute.
If this goes through, folks will do cross-server vendor trades. The sliding bars will be set at zero or a small percentage. And folks will get their vendors without committing skill points. Which is what the exploiters really want in the first place.
Same with these ridiculous ideas to allow merchants to "make" a vendor that is supposed to be an NPC.
Man is everyone a criminal in your universe or what?
This has UTILITY. It would make the profession lucrative SECURELY.
Buka_Starwalker
Mon Aug 23, 2004 4:43 am
#7
you can accomplish pretty much ANYTHING with a cross-server toon so this point is moot. To make gameplay even worse on the CHANCE that a cross server toon will exploit this in no way diminishes the NEED for crafters to be able to place their goods on reputable merchants vendors that DO exist in that galaxy. The goods get to market FASTER and everyone wins. Unless your a total pessimist and always believe that people will exploit it instead of those that will actually POSITIVELY use this type of system. Cross server trading is way lower then you are being lead to believe. You should have more faith in the amount of reputable and honest merchants that DO exist and not throw the baby out with the bathwater if someone attempts this.
joined42904 wrote:
Why is this proposal to allow other people to stock merchants' vendors still alive and being made by the vendor exploiters?
Think for a minute.
If this goes through, folks will do cross-server vendor trades. The sliding bars will be set at zero or a small percentage. And folks will get their vendors without committing skill points. Which is what the exploiters really want in the first place.
Same with these ridiculous ideas to allow merchants to "make" a vendor that is supposed to be an NPC.
Message Edited by Buka_Starwalker on 08-23-2004 04:46 AM
joined42904
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:09 am
#8
I think there are more cross-server lot trades that you believe, Buka.
I wouldn't mind granting crafters some sort of SECURE consignment arrangement...however make the merchant press at least two buttons per transaction and make the merchant, not the crafter, determine the selling price.
Who would want to go do that for merchandise that isn't theirs on a server they don't play on? Well...no one. And the merchant is going to ask for a higher percentage if the merchant has to do something (unless it's a favor for a friend) than if the merchant doesn't.
Taking the merchant out of the loop of commerce is in my opinion a bad idea. It will turn some merchants into employees or wholely owned subsidiaries of certain bulk crafters.
Anything players can abuse...some players will abuse. That the Rent-a-vendor concept in any of its variations is subject to abuse means that it will be abused if implemented. I see no reason to implement a change that will allow someone to achieve the entire functionality or much of the functionality of my profession by means of cross-server lot trades. I just don't.
DocSavag
Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:13 am
#9
joined42904 wrote:I think there are more cross-server lot trades that you believe, Buka.I wouldn't mind granting crafters some sort of SECURE consignment arrangement...however make the merchant press at least two buttons per transaction and make the merchant, not the crafter, determine the selling price.Who would want to go do that for merchandise that isn't theirs on a server they don't play on? Well...no one. And the merchant is going to ask for a higher percentage if the merchant has to do something (unless it's a favor for a friend) than if the merchant doesn't.Taking the merchant out of the loop of commerce is in my opinion a bad idea. It will turn some merchants into employees or wholely owned subsidiaries of certain bulk crafters.Anything players can abuse...some players will abuse. That the Rent-a-vendor concept in any of its variations is subject to abuse means that it will be abused if implemented. I see no reason to implement a change that will allow someone to achieve the entire functionality or much of the functionality of my profession by means of cross-server lot trades. I just don't.
I tend to agree. The merchant should remain involved on a per transaction basis. We need tools to make those transactions possible in volume and with fewer clicks so that a supplier can provide a large amount of goods and the merchant can accept them and put them up for sale with as few clicks as possible.
Cryzitul
Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:20 pm
#10
Look at the way business is done in todays high-tech world, and see if this makes sense...
In real life, you have a 3-4 part chain of commerce, starting with the supplier/manufacturer, who sells goods to the merchant, who turns around and gets the goods out to consumers. How do things get from one part of the chain to the other? By shippers, something SWG is lacking.
It would stand to reason that in a galaxy with technology superior to our own (the Star Wars galaxy), that they would have methods of commerce at LEAST comparable to ours. Since it is impractical to create a "UPS Employee" profession, and many merchants and manufacturers simply can't or won't trust other players with safely transporting their expensive goods, i am proposing that a courier feature is implemented somewhere in the merchant tree (exactly where I'll let everyone hash over). This is a service that, for a small fee (probably comparable to the shuttle fee from and to the same destinations, plus a small percentage) would handle transportation of goods between manufacturer and vendor, and could even be used in conjunction with the bazaar.
Let's go one step further, what if some profession could craft a 'computer' which would be placeable in your house, allowing you to shop online. Then you could have mail boxes which would allow for delivery (shipping from manufacturer to merchant could be handled at the vendor), making this entire game infinitely more convenient by eliminating the spending of thousands of credits going around to every clothing vendor in the galaxy looking for one specific thing, which more than likely doesn't exsist at any location.
There would have to be some interface for interplayer buying/selling, I assume the trade screen could be recycled with relatively minimal effort, and there could be a special variant of an in game e-mail to initialize the purchase and sale screen.
ex. Joe the Weaponsmithcrafts 10 crates of FWG5 pistols.
Joe sends an sell-mail to his favorite vendor, Steve the Merchant.
Steve logs in and checks his sell-mail inbox to find an offer of 10 crates of FWG5's for a total of 100,000 credits
Steve replies, which opens up the buy/sell window.
Since Joe has already provided the goods to be sold and aprice, his accept checkbox is already checked, now Steve needs only accept, or counter offer, which can be handled by filling out a box at the lower part of the menu with a price, or putting a message in a counter-offer box, and then returning the mail to Joe.
This would go on until both sides accepted the terms of the deal, then the funds and goods would be transferred automatically to the appropriate parties.
One more thing of note, if at any time the seller ceased to posess the entirety of the order which he was attempting to sell (he destroyed a crate, or sold it to someone else, bringing his total down to 9) the buyer and seller would both recieve a notification that the transaction had been cancelled, just like if you toy around with your inventory during a trade.
The whole way in which the SWG commerce system is set up is designed to make things as complicated and time consuming as possible. This is called a time sink, and it's purposely implemented to make players play longer to accomplish simple tasks, with the idea of extending subscription periods. However, it's beyond ridiculous, and shopping in SWG should be easy and convenient, so you can spend your time dealing with other time sinks. This system is designed to achieve that end.
Buka_Starwalker
Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:53 am
#11
wow, your idea is so much better then mine. I'm so ashamed =(
Cryzitul wrote:
Look at the way business is done in todays high-tech world, and see if this makes sense...
In real life, you have a 3-4 part chain of commerce, starting with the supplier/manufacturer, who sells goods to the merchant, who turns around and gets the goods out to consumers. How do things get from one part of the chain to the other? By shippers, something SWG is lacking.
It would stand to reason that in a galaxy with technology superior to our own (the Star Wars galaxy), that they would have methods of commerce at LEAST comparable to ours. Since it is impractical to create a "UPS Employee" profession, and many merchants and manufacturers simply can't or won't trust other players with safely transporting their expensive goods, i am proposing that a courier feature is implemented somewhere in the merchant tree (exactly where I'll let everyone hash over). This is a service that, for a small fee (probably comparable to the shuttle fee from and to the same destinations, plus a small percentage) would handle transportation of goods between manufacturer and vendor, and could even be used in conjunction with the bazaar.
Let's go one step further, what if some profession could craft a 'computer' which would be placeable in your house, allowing you to shop online. Then you could have mail boxes which would allow for delivery (shipping from manufacturer to merchant could be handled at the vendor), making this entire game infinitely more convenient by eliminating the spending of thousands of credits going around to every clothing vendor in the galaxy looking for one specific thing, which more than likely doesn't exsist at any location.
There would have to be some interface for interplayer buying/selling, I assume the trade screen could be recycled with relatively minimal effort, and there could be a special variant of an in game e-mail to initialize the purchase and sale screen.
ex. Joe the Weaponsmithcrafts 10 crates of FWG5 pistols.
Joe sends an sell-mail to his favorite vendor, Steve the Merchant.
Steve logs in and checks his sell-mail inbox to find an offer of 10 crates of FWG5's for a total of 100,000 credits
Steve replies, which opens up the buy/sell window.
Since Joe has already provided the goods to be sold and aprice, his accept checkbox is already checked, now Steve needs only accept, or counter offer, which can be handled by filling out a box at the lower part of the menu with a price, or putting a message in a counter-offer box, and then returning the mail to Joe.
This would go on until both sides accepted the terms of the deal, then the funds and goods would be transferred automatically to the appropriate parties.
One more thing of note, if at any time the seller ceased to posess the entirety of the order which he was attempting to sell (he destroyed a crate, or sold it to someone else, bringing his total down to 9) the buyer and seller would both recieve a notification that the transaction had been cancelled, just like if you toy around with your inventory during a trade.
The whole way in which the SWG commerce system is set up is designed to make things as complicated and time consuming as possible. This is called a time sink, and it's purposely implemented to make players play longer to accomplish simple tasks, with the idea of extending subscription periods. However, it's beyond ridiculous, and shopping in SWG should be easy and convenient, so you can spend your time dealing with other time sinks. This system is designed to achieve that end.
Buka_Starwalker
Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:42 am
#12
Meandra wrote:
Or, you can sell your crafted goods to a merchant and they don't have to do any extra coding. I dunno. What do you think the devs will choose?
because there are way more crafters then their are players dedicated to the merchant profession. Give crafters the ability to get their products to market faster rather then waiting 1 week or more to get a hold of a merchant who doesn't login for 1 week but their location is a prime selling spot like near cnet starport. This post patch 10 merchant and crafter interchange system is OLD and ANTIQUATED. Don't you feel that a modern society like SWG, that has space flight and jedis deserves a mercantile system that befits its modern status?
Why should a crafter have to reliy on a merchant that is available but all his vendors are in places like Moenia or Wayfar? A smart crafter knows the best chance to sell his goods is near coronet since its the hub of the galaxy. Having the ability toplace your products into a merchants vendor directly will not eliminate the need for merchants just make it easier for crafters to not have to relie on merchants to be logged in at the same time a crafter is logged in.
Even if both are logged in, the product exchange between the merchant and the crafter is outdated and consists of multiple emails, multiple item transfers, not to mention the inability to have the crafter reoffer the products back onto the vendor once the remaining unsold items unsell in 30 days. This leads tomultiple such antiquated meetings between the crafter and the merchant. CRAFTERS DESERVE BETTER THEN THIS!
It is absolutely within the coding ability of the devs to create this type of merchant system and it would allow greater power for crafters and more hands-off approach to managing the vendors that would be better served by the merchants advertising, creating new contacts and business deals of fuel greater distribution.
Why are we using a merchant system thats akin to a donkey when we could have a star destroyer equivalent? Why are crafters forced to use email and waiting periods of 1 week or more to get their items to be sold? THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH! CRAFTERS DESERVE A BETTER SYSTEM THEN THIS!
Why not try this system out on test center and see if people like it? That's what the test center server is there for isnt it? To try things before the become implemented in the real game? The economy of SWG has nothing to loose and a tremendous amount to gain by trying this out.
LadyGrey
Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:02 am
#13
Another way to sell merchandise would be to use the current bazaar system, but have each terminal labeled as to what type of merchandise it carries, and get rid of personal vendors.
A terminal could be labeled as having resources, clothing, food, meds, pets, etc. Allow every person to list 2000 items, spread across every type of terminal, with no restrictions on prices.
If you are at a terminal that is in the same city where the offer was made, and you purchase an item, you receive the item immediately. If you are on the same planet, but not in the same city, you can come back to the same terminal 30 minutes later, and receive the item, or you can travel to the city where the offer was made, to get the item immediately. If you are not on the same planet where offer was made, then you have to wait 2 hours before the item will show up on the terminal, or you can travel to that planet and receive item immediately.
Get rid of merchant as a profession, get rid of personal vendors, and allow perhaps about 10 to 15 different terminals, with the seller choosing which type of terminal to list their merchandise on (gets rid of problem of crates of items showing up as just crates). Maximum number of items allowed per person is 2000, so that saves the precious database space, and allows people who are not crafters to ability to sell their loot items or resources without losing combat skills. No worries about empty vendors, or vendors disappearing (along with their items). Also, all items of a particular category are visible from a single terminal, so no more running around for days searching for a vendor stocked with a particular item you are looking for.
Most people really want to just shop from the bazaar anyway.
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