Merchant Archive
Thread: Lets fix it! List of suggested fixes/alternaives POSITIVE INPUT ONLY Don't duplicate ideas!!
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Banquo
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:54 pm
#1
Ok we all know that the item cap size is a bad idea, no matter if it's for the database size, or the potential PR win of saying "look we met you halfway we tripled the suggested limit"
The point of this thread is,..what IN GAME suggestions can we make to fix this issue and/or improve the perceived yet never defined problem. I know several new threads were starting on this, but I figured we could put them in one place.
The external problems have all been addressed "Buy more DB servers, fix your code, get better Customer support etc.... lets leave those off this thread and keep it usefull (and this coming from a guy who's in a major battle with CSR's right now)
PLEASE READ THE OTHER IDEAS before posting yours and don't post a lot of duplicate ideas.
CAP SIZE:
Based on the other threads I'm guestimating that people wouldn't be too bent out of shape about a 3K /vendor cap.
So for this thread I propose we pretend that they've upped the cap size to 3K items per vedor, and we pretend that just getting rid of vendor exploiters didn't fix the problemanyway (as I believe it will) and the Dev's have come back to us and said, "OK we did all that but we could still have problems")
(see I'm a better pretend Dev already)
WHAT Changes can be made to improve the situation??
WHAT Problems would there still be with Merchant??
WHAT Problems would there still be with Merchant??
Feel free to say "Well I'm running into problems with the 3K cap because......"
(I'm a intermediate crafter/merchant and 3K/per is good to me,..lets get feedback on that)
The ideas that I have seen (many times) in the previous threads are:
Storeroom:
Allow the storeroom to keep items without deleting them after X days
Where X is negotiable with the preference of never.
Allow the storeroom to keep items without deleting them for X credits
Where X becomes a maintenance fee to keep your storeroom active.
Storage limits on houses:
People want to be able to decorate their houses and be able to store things in them, up the limits so they can do both and not have to spend harvester/factory lots to do it.
Alternate Storage Types:
Create a new class of building (warehouse, workshop etc....) that allows a LARGE number of itmes to be stored in it.
Create a new container that can be dropped in houses (or equipped in houses and tents) that stores items but doesn't count against the inventory of the user or house. There has been demand for saddlebags for pets/vehicles for a while and this would just be a natural extension of it.
Larger Crate/Stack Sizes:
Allow Crates to be created with larger #'s of items in them. And/or give us a way to stack/split/combineidenticalitems in crates into larger and larger crates (this HAS to help you as instead of tracking 10 crates of the same thing you're now tracking 1 crate and a multiplyer)
This would also be a HUGE boon to crafters and Merchants in general (1 schematic for 1000 items has the potential to make 1 crate (depending on how I set up my factory. "Create crates of X, X, X"
OK,..those are the biggies that I can think of.....
Could someone please start a "Flames only" thread to balance this one out??
Darksfallen
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:57 pm
#2
Make output hoppers on Factories 1000 (again) so Merchants (crafters) can have storage areas and not have to shove everything on a vender.
Mkappus
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:04 pm
#3
I think the best fix would be to make vendor maintenance variable on the number of items and/or the value of the items up for sale. Right now there is no penalty for selling anything and everything. I can understand where the database might have an issue with a dud firework for sale for 6 months, or some warm hat.
Have the maintenance as a sliding scale of the value of the goods up for sale. A merchant would then have to do a cost/benefit analysis for the items he wants to sell.
Larger output hoppers in factories would be a good help. Right now small vendor limits will limit the viability of doing factory runs of diverse things like tailor clothes, furniture.....
EEMAN
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:07 pm
#4
I actually am not entirely against the new changes as far as the concept goes but I do believe the caps are rediculously low especially for tailors, armorsmith and resource vendors etc. These vendors require such high capacity just to have 2 or 3 colors of a specific item etc. It is quite problematic especially for tailers and resources. As a weaponsmith the 100 items per vendor is low but merely going to 200 items per vendor would solve my problems but I do not feel it is enough of a solution for other types of vendors especially tailors w/ their 255 items (even if you did every item in 3 different colors you are screwed nevermind 3 or 4 in 5 of the most popular colors).
Never fear I actually have a solution but it requires some coding for special types of vendors.
1) resource vendor - special type of vendor available at hiring 3 w/ limits based on skill boxes (hopefully 200 items at mgmnt4). The reason this is paramount is because post change you will never be able to buy resources in stacks smaller than 100k and even then your probably going to only see 4 or 5 different resources tops on a vendor. I suggest a special vendor where each resource type is an item but the stack size is limitless.. in other words if I just harvested 853k of 'syuibe' colat iron it all shows up as 1 item on the vendor.. the price I list is per unit. As a customer, lets say I only need to by 15484 units, I can merely put in the number of units (perhaps an interface like the add power interface of a harvester) and it calculates the cost based on the per unit cost. This will allow a resource vendor to stock 200 (if management 4 and they raise the cap to 200) resources on that resource vendor.
2) restackable identical items sellable from crates as singles... lets say I made 3 crates of laser carbines and instead of slicing all 75 carbines I want to sell them unsliced. I can then combine them into 1 crate of 75 and add to the vendor. When I put it up for sale I get presented with an option of sell the whole crate as 1 item or sell the items within individually. I then only take up 1 item on my vendor and can sell all the laser carbines without running out of vendor space. This also gives a market back to unsliced weapons and armor as a smith will have to think long and hard if he wants to use up all his item spots on sliced gear or just sell it and let another smuggler slice it for profit. This also would prevent the issue where only high profit margin items being sold (buff packs) versus low profit margin items being exluded (stim packs).
3) dye kits - this will help the tailors and armorsmith plight immensely as some items stick around forever and other items cant keep stocked merely due to someone's color choices. If clothing could be crafted without color options so that a tailor could take advantage of solution #2 a customer could then buy a dye kit to color thier clothing whatever color they want, same for non composite armor colors.
I think a combined use of these 3 methods along with some increase of item caps as one aproaches master (perhaps a non-linear increase as one spends more points .. mgmt 4 versus master should reflect the expence of another 46 skill points) would reduce the merchant database size immensely, reduce the lag related to item lookups, promote more economy for smugglers who exist other than a slicing alt for crafters, and still effectively remove the empty vendors from the game and prevent nonskilled persons from having vendors they are not entitled to.
Never fear I actually have a solution but it requires some coding for special types of vendors.
1) resource vendor - special type of vendor available at hiring 3 w/ limits based on skill boxes (hopefully 200 items at mgmnt4). The reason this is paramount is because post change you will never be able to buy resources in stacks smaller than 100k and even then your probably going to only see 4 or 5 different resources tops on a vendor. I suggest a special vendor where each resource type is an item but the stack size is limitless.. in other words if I just harvested 853k of 'syuibe' colat iron it all shows up as 1 item on the vendor.. the price I list is per unit. As a customer, lets say I only need to by 15484 units, I can merely put in the number of units (perhaps an interface like the add power interface of a harvester) and it calculates the cost based on the per unit cost. This will allow a resource vendor to stock 200 (if management 4 and they raise the cap to 200) resources on that resource vendor.
2) restackable identical items sellable from crates as singles... lets say I made 3 crates of laser carbines and instead of slicing all 75 carbines I want to sell them unsliced. I can then combine them into 1 crate of 75 and add to the vendor. When I put it up for sale I get presented with an option of sell the whole crate as 1 item or sell the items within individually. I then only take up 1 item on my vendor and can sell all the laser carbines without running out of vendor space. This also gives a market back to unsliced weapons and armor as a smith will have to think long and hard if he wants to use up all his item spots on sliced gear or just sell it and let another smuggler slice it for profit. This also would prevent the issue where only high profit margin items being sold (buff packs) versus low profit margin items being exluded (stim packs).
3) dye kits - this will help the tailors and armorsmith plight immensely as some items stick around forever and other items cant keep stocked merely due to someone's color choices. If clothing could be crafted without color options so that a tailor could take advantage of solution #2 a customer could then buy a dye kit to color thier clothing whatever color they want, same for non composite armor colors.
I think a combined use of these 3 methods along with some increase of item caps as one aproaches master (perhaps a non-linear increase as one spends more points .. mgmt 4 versus master should reflect the expence of another 46 skill points) would reduce the merchant database size immensely, reduce the lag related to item lookups, promote more economy for smugglers who exist other than a slicing alt for crafters, and still effectively remove the empty vendors from the game and prevent nonskilled persons from having vendors they are not entitled to.
Rogue1970
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:12 pm
#5
I feel the limits are unnecessary, and to combat the issue of the Merchant profession being barely usable I propose a new Consignment Skill. This make them USEFUL, and eliminates the need for the merchant to be on 24/7 to manage his business. It still promotes interaction and interdependance and actually makes Merchants usefull.
Novice - 1 Consignee Allowed
Mgmt 1 - 2 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 2 - 3 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 3 - 4 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 4 - 5 Consignees Allowed
Master - 6 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 1 - 2 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 2 - 3 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 3 - 4 Consignees Allowed
Mgmt 4 - 5 Consignees Allowed
Master - 6 Consignees Allowed
A Consignee would have the ability to sell items on your vendor, plus the Admin assigned Markup Commission Percentage.
Sold Items would deposit the Commission in the Merchants Bank, and the Sale Price in the Crafters Bank.
Email alerts would go out to all involved appropriately.
Vendors and Buildings would be INDESTRUCTIBLE until the Consigned Items were sold, retrieved or Poofed in the Stockroom with Timely Email Alerts
Merchants would be able to Email their 'Consignees' from the Vendor interface.
---
Alternatively, if the Devs decide to just nerf everyone with their current proposal, I counter with why even have Merchant? With the severe gimping they propose, would it not serve us all better to make Merchant skills tied to the house ownership/abilities rather than skill points?
Either make Merchant useful to us ALL, or eliminate it.
Tralakar
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:16 pm
#6
EEMAN wrote:
I actually am not entirely against the new changes as far as the concept goes but I do believe the caps are rediculously low especially for tailors, armorsmith and resource vendors etc. These vendors require such high capacity just to have 2 or 3 colors of a specific item etc. It is quite problematic especially for tailers and resources. As a weaponsmith the 100 items per vendor is low but merely going to 200 items per vendor would solve my problems but I do not feel it is enough of a solution for other types of vendors especially tailors w/ their 255 items (even if you did every item in 3 different colors you are screwed nevermind 3 or 4 in 5 of the most popular colors).
Never fear I actually have a solution but it requires some coding for special types of vendors.
1) resource vendor - special type of vendor available at hiring 3 w/ limits based on skill boxes (hopefully 200 items at mgmnt4). The reason this is paramount is because post change you will never be able to buy resources in stacks smaller than 100k and even then your probably going to only see 4 or 5 different resources tops on a vendor. I suggest a special vendor where each resource type is an item but the stack size is limitless.. in other words if I just harvested 853k of 'syuibe' colat iron it all shows up as 1 item on the vendor.. the price I list is per unit. As a customer, lets say I only need to by 15484 units, I can merely put in the number of units (perhaps an interface like the add power interface of a harvester) and it calculates the cost based on the per unit cost. This will allow a resource vendor to stock 200 (if management 4 and they raise the cap to 200) resources on that resource vendor.
2) restackable identical items sellable from crates as singles... lets say I made 3 crates of laser carbines and instead of slicing all 75 carbines I want to sell them unsliced. I can then combine them into 1 crate of 75 and add to the vendor. When I put it up for sale I get presented with an option of sell the whole crate as 1 item or sell the items within individually. I then only take up 1 item on my vendor and can sell all the laser carbines without running out of vendor space. This also gives a market back to unsliced weapons and armor as a smith will have to think long and hard if he wants to use up all his item spots on sliced gear or just sell it and let another smuggler slice it for profit. This also would prevent the issue where only high profit margin items being sold (buff packs) versus low profit margin items being exluded (stim packs).
3) dye kits - this will help the tailors and armorsmith plight immensely as some items stick around forever and other items cant keep stocked merely due to someone's color choices. If clothing could be crafted without color options so that a tailor could take advantage of solution #2 a customer could then buy a dye kit to color thier clothing whatever color they want, same for non composite armor colors.
I think a combined use of these 3 methods along with some increase of item caps as one aproaches master (perhaps a non-linear increase as one spends more points .. mgmt 4 versus master should reflect the expence of another 46 skill points) would reduce the merchant database size immensely, reduce the lag related to item lookups, promote more economy for smugglers who exist other than a slicing alt for crafters, and still effectively remove the empty vendors from the game and prevent nonskilled persons from having vendors they are not entitled to.
Those are awesome ideas,..and There could even be a "Clothing coloring station" that only tailor/merchants could place that could have an access fee associated.
I really dislike the trend of people saying we need specific vendor types though. I have a Misc loot vendor that sells everything from broken junk to Krayt items, and they all sell regularly. I'd hate to have to have specialist vendors (as it is I think most people have specialist and generalist vendors anyway.
I suggest a vendor type called "Storage vendor, or inventory vendor" that is only accessable by the owner as a 7th ;ossible vendor.
I personnaly think a 3K/vendor cap would be ok for me.
KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!!!! IT"S A GREAT ONE!!!
CaptainCloak
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:24 pm
#7
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=37932
(Heh, I'd just posted this when I saw this topic open)
--Mikka
Tralakar
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:31 pm
#8
CaptainCloak wrote:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=37932
(Heh, I'd just posted this when I saw this topic open)
--Mikka
Here's the Fix portion of it
Vendor Enhancements:
"Resellers"
- Instead of just plain offers, the person offering the items to the merchant should be able to set a "Resale Price" and "Merchant Cut" value on an item that would allow the merchant to then sell the item - and when it is purchased the funds are distributed accordingly. If the item goes unsold, the person offering the item is informed by Email and has 7 days to either retrieve it or re-offer it to the vendor.
- EXAMPLE: I could offer a crate to a vendor. "Resale Price: 150,000" "Merchant Cut: 30,000". The merchant could agree to this rate and sell the item on their vendor and when it is purchased, the Merchant would receive 30,000 credits and I would receive 120,000 credits.
- Instead of just plain offers, the person offering the items to the merchant should be able to set a "Resale Price" and "Merchant Cut" value on an item that would allow the merchant to then sell the item - and when it is purchased the funds are distributed accordingly. If the item goes unsold, the person offering the item is informed by Email and has 7 days to either retrieve it or re-offer it to the vendor.
- EXAMPLE: I could offer a crate to a vendor. "Resale Price: 150,000" "Merchant Cut: 30,000". The merchant could agree to this rate and sell the item on their vendor and when it is purchased, the Merchant would receive 30,000 credits and I would receive 120,000 credits.
Benefits:
- This would allow players who do not have any desire to spend points in the merchant line a means for securely reselling their wares through other vendors - or even selling their products through a variety of places if they choose.
- This allows someone who chooses to pursue a career of a Merchant as opposed to a Crafter the opportunity to do just that - make their "cut" off of the top of the resales as they deem fit.
- This would lend itself most likely to having fewer, but better stocked, vendors on the server.
- This would allow players who do not have any desire to spend points in the merchant line a means for securely reselling their wares through other vendors - or even selling their products through a variety of places if they choose.
- This allows someone who chooses to pursue a career of a Merchant as opposed to a Crafter the opportunity to do just that - make their "cut" off of the top of the resales as they deem fit.
- This would lend itself most likely to having fewer, but better stocked, vendors on the server.
"Price Tag Caps"
- Let's face it, there's a world of difference between going into "A For a Dollar" and going into "Sax's Fifth Avenue" - and Merchants should be considered the same way. With each increasing rank a player would be able to list items for a greater value with a hard cap of 30,000,000 for Master Merchants
- Let's face it, there's a world of difference between going into "A For a Dollar" and going into "Sax's Fifth Avenue" - and Merchants should be considered the same way. With each increasing rank a player would be able to list items for a greater value with a hard cap of 30,000,000 for Master Merchants
Benefits:
- Again, this would reinforce the need and value of high end merchants and perhaps even further enhance the resale business for high-end items (Afterall, you would want to go to a merchant of solid repute to purchase a multi-million dollar item and not just Ebay it away)
- This would also help limit using Vendors as "Warehouses" by putting items in bags for 99,999,999 credits and making them unpurchaseable.
- Again, this would reinforce the need and value of high end merchants and perhaps even further enhance the resale business for high-end items (Afterall, you would want to go to a merchant of solid repute to purchase a multi-million dollar item and not just Ebay it away)
- This would also help limit using Vendors as "Warehouses" by putting items in bags for 99,999,999 credits and making them unpurchaseable.
"Storage"
- Here's where it really comes out in the wash. Storage represents the total number of items at any given time that a player can have listed on their vendors. Keeping this value independent from the number of Vendors a player has allows a Merchant to tailor their business to their likings - would they rather have a single heavily stocked vendor or a larger number of more lightly stocked vendors, etc.
- Should a player exceed the number of items they are allowed to have listed, they will no longer be able to offer items for sale and any vendors they have will report "Out of Order" to any customers that attempt to use them
- Here's where it really comes out in the wash. Storage represents the total number of items at any given time that a player can have listed on their vendors. Keeping this value independent from the number of Vendors a player has allows a Merchant to tailor their business to their likings - would they rather have a single heavily stocked vendor or a larger number of more lightly stocked vendors, etc.
- Should a player exceed the number of items they are allowed to have listed, they will no longer be able to offer items for sale and any vendors they have will report "Out of Order" to any customers that attempt to use them
Benefits:
- This does place a hard limit on the number of items a single player can have listed
- This encourages acquiring additional skill blocks for a purpose
- This allows players to choose how many items they care to have listed on any given vendor as opposed to having it determined by the system
- This does place a hard limit on the number of items a single player can have listed
- This encourages acquiring additional skill blocks for a purpose
- This allows players to choose how many items they care to have listed on any given vendor as opposed to having it determined by the system
Other Miscellaneous Enhancements:
- An increased allotment for the number of items that could be sold via the Bazaar
- An additional 5% Maintenance Boost at Master Merchant
- An additional 5% Maintenance Boost at Master Merchant
Re-Designing the Merchant Tree:
Merchant Skills:
- VENDORS (Number of Vendors a single merchant can place)
- STORAGE (Total Number of Items that can be offered for sale across a Merchants vendors)
- HIRING (Better selection of vendors when creating them)
- BAZAAR (Number of additional items to be sold on the bazaar)
- PRICE CAP (Maximum amount of credits a merchant can list an item for sale)
- VENDORS (Number of Vendors a single merchant can place)
- STORAGE (Total Number of Items that can be offered for sale across a Merchants vendors)
- HIRING (Better selection of vendors when creating them)
- BAZAAR (Number of additional items to be sold on the bazaar)
- PRICE CAP (Maximum amount of credits a merchant can list an item for sale)
ARTISAN SKILL BLOCKS:
Business 1: Access Fees
Business 2: Premium Auctions
Business 3: Vendors +1, Storage +25, Hiring +10, 100,000 price tag cap
Business 4: Storage +25, Hiring +10, 200,000 price tag cap
Master Artisan: Storage +50
Business 2: Premium Auctions
Business 3: Vendors +1, Storage +25, Hiring +10, 100,000 price tag cap
Business 4: Storage +25, Hiring +10, 200,000 price tag cap
Master Artisan: Storage +50
MERCHANT SKILL BLOCKS:
Novice Merchant: Vendors +1, Storage +100, Hiring +10, +10 Bazaar Listings
HIRING TREE
- Hiring 1: +1 Vendor, +10 Hiring, 500,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 2: +1 Vendor, +15 Hiring, 1,000,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 3: +1 Vendor, +20 Hiring, 2,500,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 4: +1 Vendor, +25 Hiring, 5,000,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 1: +1 Vendor, +10 Hiring, 500,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 2: +1 Vendor, +15 Hiring, 1,000,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 3: +1 Vendor, +20 Hiring, 2,500,000 price tag cap
- Hiring 4: +1 Vendor, +25 Hiring, 5,000,000 price tag cap
MANAGEMENT TREE
- Management 1: +150 Storage
- Management 2: +200 Storage
- Management 3: +250 Storage
- Management 4: +300 Storage
- Management 1: +150 Storage
- Management 2: +200 Storage
- Management 3: +250 Storage
- Management 4: +300 Storage
EFFICIENCY TREE
- Efficiency 1: +10 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 2: +10 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 3: +15 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 4: +15 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 1: +10 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 2: +10 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 3: +15 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
- Efficiency 4: +15 Bazaar Listings, +5% Structure Maintenance Bonus
ADVERTISING TREE
- Advertising 1: Vendor Vocalization
- Advertising 2: Droid Vocalication (Merchant Droids)
- Advertising 3: Custom Vocalization
- Advertising 4: CTRL-M Map Display of Vendors
- Advertising 1: Vendor Vocalization
- Advertising 2: Droid Vocalication (Merchant Droids)
- Advertising 3: Custom Vocalization
- Advertising 4: CTRL-M Map Display of Vendors
MASTER MERCHANT
- +500 Storage at Master Merchant (1600 Total)
- +20 Bazaar Listings (100 Total)
- +1 Vendor (7 total)
- +15 Bazaar listings (100 total)
- +5% Structure Management Bonus (-25% Total)
- Galactic Map Display of Vendors
- Galactic Tax Reduction (vendor sales fee)
- +500 Storage at Master Merchant (1600 Total)
- +20 Bazaar Listings (100 Total)
- +1 Vendor (7 total)
- +15 Bazaar listings (100 total)
- +5% Structure Management Bonus (-25% Total)
- Galactic Map Display of Vendors
- Galactic Tax Reduction (vendor sales fee)
- 30,000,000 price tag cap
_______________________________________________________________
I do realize this system is far from perfect and can definitely use a ton of tweaking, but in light of this rather insane "110 Items x 6" solution proposed by the developers I believe this will also provide a viable, and far better solution for the merchants in addition to making the entire profession much more desireable both for Crafters who need it, and Individuals who would choose to pursue it as a money making opportunity while providing functions to help clear up Empty Vendors, Rule Breakers, Prevent "Stockrooming" and help remove money from the economy.
Vaygirl
Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:07 pm
#9
Erm, please don't take stuff away from other professions with your ideas guys. Half the fun of Tailor for most of us is in creating outfits and color combinations. We're creative people, we like to be creative. I like all the other ideas though.
Songe
Mon Aug 09, 2004 3:32 pm
#10
I would rather see the limit doubled or tripled, but mostly make it so that the cap is always on ALL vendors and not just one. So that someone with management 4 could have one vendor with 1200 items or 1 with 400 and another with 800.
But Tralakar has good suggestions as well.
Message Edited by Songe on 08-09-2004 06:33 PM
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