Merchant Archive

Thread: Smugglers pushing for elimination of sliced items from vendors

Hurlobacca
Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:56 am
#1

If you've seen one of my previous posts on this subject on another forum I apologize in advance. Right now on the Smuggler forumthey are conducting a poll to see if there is a consensus among smugglers to ask that the ability to sell sliced items on vendors be eliminated. It seems a bit odd to me since listing items for sale on a vendor is a Merchant/Artisan function and smugglers by definiton already do 100% of the slicing of weapons/armor and finally, that any smuggler that wants to set up his own vendor can do so providing they have the requisite skills.


There seems to be a general dissatisfaction with the current state of their profession as everytime something is implemented that impacts their profession it works against them, including the upcoming changes to Feign Death. I'm sympathetic to their plight and agree that improvements ought to be made to their profession as so many seem unhappywith it, but I disagree that the way to fix their profession is to take something away from another profession, and in this case it would also impact players that prefer buying sliced items for the certaintyof knowing what you are gettingand also the convenience.


The main argument put forward seems to center around the fact that sliced items are illegal and therefore shouldn't be on vendors. I personally use NPC vendors, so if you know the right one to talk to you can find your sliced items but we also have unsliced for the more law-abiding citizens as well. For some reason they feel that Merchants should not be allowed to deal in such shady products but many merchants value commerce before adherence to the law, and since virtually every player in the game possesses an arsenal of illegal weapons, it hardly makes sense to say that Smugglers should control the trade in those weapons as illegal items are everywhere. I liken the service Smugglers provide to that of a doctor. I pay the doctor for his buffs but he doesn't get the right to tell me where or how I can use those buffs nor is he entitled to a share of whatever credits I generate running missions with those buffs. Apparently smugglers resent the fact that Merchants can take their sliced items and sell them on a vendor for a profit, but that is the essence of what Merchants do with all of their items, and as I've stated before, there's nothing stopping Smugglers from setting up vendors and doing the same thing.



Hurlobacca 12 Point Master Weaponsmith
SiyBer Arms South Coronet -200 -5500 Visit Our Vendors:
DmgSliced SpdSliced Melee Ranged Krayt/Special Heavy/Grenades
Crates/Tools Powerups Bargain Resources
Ahnlida
Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:20 am
#2

I completely, and entirely support the Smuggler's in this.
My reasons may not entirely be the same, for I'm not a Smuggler, and therefore don't gain any profit from this regarless of which way it goes...
But allowing sliced weapons (and spice) on vendors is the same thing as if you could sell crystal meth and pot on TV info-mercials. We're talking about things that are supposed to be illegal within the realm of the game.

If they're not disallowed from the vendor I would at least suggest that any time an Imperial player character looks at a vendor that has such items on them that the owner would be placed on the Bounty Hunter boards or some such similar operation.
Hurlobacca
Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:16 am
#3






Ahnlida wrote:
I completely, and entirely support the Smuggler's in this.
My reasons may not entirely be the same, for I'm not a Smuggler, and therefore don't gain any profit from this regarless of which way it goes...
But allowing sliced weapons (and spice) on vendors is the same thing as if you could sell crystal meth and pot on TV info-mercials (out of your house). We're talking about things that are supposed to be illegal within the realm of the game.

If they're not disallowed from the vendor I would at least suggest that any time an Imperial player character looks at a vendor that has such items on them that the owner would be placed on the Bounty Hunter boards or some such similar operation.






Hmmm.... selling illegal items on TV info-mercials seemsa bit of a stretch, but out of one'shouse, whether you know it or not is a reality that occurs every day in almost every town in America. Merchants come in many forms from the Disneys, Enrons, Duponts, Walmarts to the Mom and Pop retailers to the guy who sits on his computer and buys cars and then sells them for a profit. It wasn't long ago that I read on the net about someone who got busted selling bags of pot from the drive-thru window of a fast-food restaurant,and people running illegal businesses within a legitimate business is a time-honored tradition. Some businesses are altruistic, some are benign, and some are malevolent in their disregard for the law as headlines of recent times confirm. I'm actually offended by people's insistence that as a merchant I wouldn't be willing to break the law for personal gain. I must not be playing my character very well if that's the case.


I've already suggested in other posts that I'd agree with vendors of sliced goods being subject to inspection, though I think an NPC would be more appropriate since most Imp players are in possession of sliced goods themselves. This would also provide an opportunity to allow smugglers to employ their underworld skills to either screen your vendors from discovery (for a price of course) or to make a bribe on your behalf to convince the authorties to overlook your transgression.




Hurlobacca 12 Point Master Weaponsmith
SiyBer Arms South Coronet -200 -5500 Visit Our Vendors:
DmgSliced SpdSliced Melee Ranged Krayt/Special Heavy/Grenades
Crates/Tools Powerups Bargain Resources
Andymantium
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:51 am
#4

/sigh



K

Darkov
Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:18 pm
#5

Well... as a Master Smuggler / Master Merchant, this is a very touchy subject for me. But....


I have two points of view, first is simple enough I want Smugglers to be SMUGGLERS, this gets to the point of illegal goods, and thus sliced weapons and armor should not be on vendors.


The other is more complex, as a Merchant my vendors are the key to my business, and being able to put all my goods on them is important, but more so are my contracts with Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths, if they can't sell the sliced goods, then I lose my contract to slice their crafted items. That is going to hurt my income. What's more it reduces me to hawking my slicing ability, standing around looking for people who need a slice or doing something that will make them contact me for a slice, in the game's current state the latter is extremely hard.


So, a compromise should be Smuggler only skill to add a "black market" list to vendors, which can be viewed by appropriate faction members or neutrals at a click of a button. This imo should be a Master Smuggler skill, and require Novice Merchant. Thus ensuring that it benefits the Smugglers and doesn't harm the Merchants.


What it would do though is cause problems to the smiths who sell pre-sliced goods, they'd either have to expand their contracts with the Smugglers to include selling of sliced goods not just slicing or stop selling sliced goods.
Andymantium
Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:46 pm
#6






Darkov wrote:

Well... as a Master Smuggler / Master Merchant, this is a very touchy subject for me. But....


I have two points of view, first is simple enough I want Smugglers to be SMUGGLERS, this gets to the point of illegal goods, and thus sliced weapons and armor should not be on vendors.


The other is more complex, as a Merchant my vendors are the key to my business, and being able to put all my goods on them is important, but more so are my contracts with Weaponsmiths and Armorsmiths, if they can't sell the sliced goods, then I lose my contract to slice their crafted items. That is going to hurt my income. What's more it reduces me to hawking my slicing ability, standing around looking for people who need a slice or doing something that will make them contact me for a slice, in the game's current state the latter is extremely hard.


So, a compromise should be Smuggler only skill to add a "black market" list to vendors, which can be viewed by appropriate faction members or neutrals at a click of a button. This imo should be a Master Smuggler skill, and require Novice Merchant. Thus ensuring that it benefits the Smugglers and doesn't harm the Merchants.


What it would do though is cause problems to the smiths who sell pre-sliced goods, they'd either have to expand their contracts with the Smugglers to include selling of sliced goods not just slicing or stop selling sliced goods.





You know, I really want smugglers to get some love..I really do, they've been lead on since launch with no real significant update to show for it...but does it need to come at the expense of merchants everywhere? I understand the "smuggle" arguments, but who's to say that I can't sell items in my shop and never get caught? Maybe, I have a small, out-of-the-way store in the backwoods of Rori that only a few people know about?


Instead of something so drastic asremoving the ability for a merchant to sell sliced goods, why not, at the very least, consider a compromise wheresuch sales are still possible, but with bonuses/penalties for the smuggler/merchant (as an example)? It just seems like few smugglers are even willing to consider this - all or nothing, no debate.


/shrug



K

Darkov
Tue Feb 22, 2005 4:04 pm
#7

I would prefer a compromise, but you have to consider that most Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths have a Smuggler on beck n call, (hell I'm a contracted smuggler), this would mean that any compromise that suits the above two would negate the point of doing in the first place.


The only compromise would be to put the skill to sell illegal goods high up the smuggler tree, or high up the merchant tree.


I'm not a fan of the way they are pushing for smuggling.. shipping goods from A to B is one thing, but when A and B are both moving around with their own agendas... how is that fun for the smuggler? heh.. we'll see, it's a pretty drastic change.
Jaer_Allanon
Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:11 pm
#8


I have an idea that may work. It would be much along the same lines as the merchant discount on the fee to place an item for sale on the Bazaar.


There should be a fee or "cut" of the illegal sale of sliced goods and spice that goes to the Hutts, Dark Suns, ETC..


If you are a Smuggler, you would get a discount to this fee or forfeit less of your profits to the Hutts or whomever you are affiliated with.


However, you must be affiliated with one of these outlaw groups inorder to sell illegal goods.


A merchant without any Smuggling skills could risk being forced to give a 50% or completely random cut on a particular sale.


This would add value to the Smuggler class, Sliced Items, possible profit, and even the Hutts, Dark Suns, Swoops, ETC..


They could even take this farther and base it much like the GCW. Certain Factions could rule certain parts of the Galaxy. Thus making it more benefitial to be a part of a said faction. Even affecting who controls the area by completing smuggling missions, assassination, bounties, etc..

Message Edited by Jaer_Allanon on 02-22-2005 09:15 PM



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LaurnaRose
Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:08 pm
#9






Hurlobacca wrote:



Hmmm.... selling illegal items on TV info-mercials seemsa bit of a stretch, but out of one'shouse, whether you know it or not is a reality that occurs every day in almost every town in America. Merchants come in many forms from the Disneys, Enrons, Duponts, Walmarts to the Mom and Pop retailers to the guy who sits on his computer and buys cars and then sells them for a profit. It wasn't long ago that I read on the net about someone who got busted selling bags of pot from the drive-thru window of a fast-food restaurant,and people running illegal businesses within a legitimate business is a time-honored tradition. Some businesses are altruistic, some are benign, and some are malevolent in their disregard for the law as headlines of recent times confirm. I'm actually offended by people's insistence that as a merchant I wouldn't be willing to break the law for personal gain. I must not be playing my character very well if that's the case.


What you are not seeing is the difference between these types of sales. Shops/retailers (vendors) advertise their wares in public through means of media/word of mouth (PAC/satisfied customers). The guy selling pot through the drive through window is a "word of mouth" sell as to advertise such illegal activities in a more public manner would draw attention to the illegal activity.


I totally agree that if this is something the smugglers are asking for that it should go into effect. Make smuggler a hands on profession. However, if they are pushing for this, I would agree that NO smuggling item should be able to be sold on the common market. - Maybe a solution would be to not allow vendors selling smuggler goods to be advertised on the PAC? Not sure. But I can see how it makes sense what they are trying to do. There are too many people out there with alt accounts to supplement a profession (Armorsmiths and Weaponsmiths using Alt.Smugglers to sell their wares takes a lot of business away from the ppl who play Smuggler as a main character). But I do not think they should have their cake and eat it too with this issue. Either NO smuggler goods allowed on vendors orremove advertisment from any vendor that has illegal controband.


I've already suggested in other posts that I'd agree with vendors of sliced goods being subject to inspection, though I think an NPC would be more appropriate since most Imp players are in possession of sliced goods themselves. This would also provide an opportunity to allow smugglers to employ their underworld skills to either screen your vendors from discovery (for a price of course) or to make a bribe on your behalf to convince the authorties to overlook your transgression.










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Dimear
Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:29 am
#10

Merchants and other non-combatants are being kicked out of the GCW. Any changes that require a merchant to be part of the GCW in order to run business effectively doesn't have my support at the moment...







Thus sayeth Dimear

Jutewr
Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:39 pm
#11






Andymantium wrote:

You know, I really want smugglers to get some love..I really do, they've been lead on since launch with no real significant update to show for it...but does it need to come at the expense of merchants everywhere? I understand the "smuggle" arguments, but who's to say that I can't sell items in my shop and never get caught? Maybe, I have a small, out-of-the-way store in the backwoods of Rori that only a few people know about?





/agree One profession should not get new content at the expense of another.



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DragonSnack
Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:33 am
#12

I am a Master Smuggler and I agree wholeheartedly with Hurlobacca. It appears thta I disagree with most others posting on the Smuggler forum.

BUT.....


I dont want to have to peddle what I transport or craft. That's why I work with a merchant.

I just posted the following on the smuggler board as what I'd like to see for Smuggler.


Substitute the word mechant for the word Smuggler in the protions that discuss vendors and selling andwhat not.


Basically remove the illegal item's form "public" vendors and give the merchants a reasonalbe number of "illegal item" vnedors.

Don't reduce the number of public vendors already granted to a merchant but add additional ones to be used strickly for illegal items.

I put the 3 in where they arefor Smuggler to limit competition with merchants and I thought high enough in the tree to limit dabblers.


The bottom line is I need someplace to sell my stuff. I'd rather not do it myself -THATS WHAT MERCHANTS ARE FOR- but I neeed an automated outlet if I'm to make my smuggling business profitable.

If I wanted to be a merchant I'd spend the SP to be a merchant.

And I certainly don't wan to join the dancers, musicans,doctors and recruiters standing in front of the star port pushng spices or slices.


If it can be sold to the masses LET A MECHANT DO THE SELLING I'll supply the product.

I'll do the nickle and dime routine in the cantinas when I feel like it.


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