Merchant Archive
Thread: New Merchant Ability/Skill Suggestion
I think /transferstructure should allow someone with Efficiency IV (or maybe Master Merchant) to transfer a Merchant Tent to someone. I'd like to be able to do this as a service and charge rent!
Here's how the idea works: Merchant drops the tent, set a "rental fee" of x credits per day, then uses /transferstructure to give the tent to another player who is willing to pay the rental fee as part of structure maintenance. The new player becomes the owner of the structure, it goes against their lot count, and so on. However, because they don't have a Merchant skill, they cannot redeed and replace it, and as long as the structure exists, the original rent is set and the Merchant who originally placed the structure receives this rent.
It's someone else's building after that, but you get that maint fee as long as it exists, even if they transfer it to someone else. The current owner could destroy it, of course, and you would no longer get the rent. But as long as it stood, it would provide revenue to you.
The possibilities are actually quite broad; this idea could extend to providing not only tents but vendors, although that would be trickier from a development perspective, I imagine. But it would be great if a Merchant could place a Tent, put a Vendor in it, then use /transferstructure and /transfervendor to give a non-merchant the Tent and vendor for an ongoing fee paid directly to the Merchant.
I imagine a number of PAs and Malls might take advantage of such a service, as you could get a vendor and a shop without having to actually have Merchant skills. Of course, you couldn't modify the vendor, couldn't get it to say anything or register it on the map, and you'd have to pay rent on it as long as you owned it, but that's the tradeoff for not getting the skill.
Thoughts?
I have the same retisence about this as I do about renting vendors, because renting the vendor to go with the structure, while not a necessity will be important. My problem with renting out vendors is that I'm afraid that it'll be all we're good for. Just studying other markets there's always a few people selling real low, and even at the highest end I'm afraid it'll be more preferrable for people just to rent vendors from us instead of us having business arrangements where we sell other people's goods ON our vendors. Why pay for a lifetime of steak or even hamburgers when cows are cheaper? Players who only want this benefit will only get management 4 so they can just rent out their six vendors and collect the rent checks, and meanwhile while we are trying to come up with arrangements with crafters for goods to sell on our vendors they're asking us, "Yeah but wouldn't it be cheaper for me just to rent a vendor from someone?"
That aside I do think that solely renting out the tents would be a beneficial arrangement, especially for Artisans with the Business 3 vendor. If we could do this so that vendor renting would be left out I'd be all for it.
JTGAlpha wrote:I have the same retisence about this as I do about renting vendors, because renting the vendor to go with the structure, while not a necessity will be important. My problem with renting out vendors is that I'm afraid that it'll be all we're good for. Just studying other markets there's always a few people selling real low, and even at the highest end I'm afraid it'll be more preferrable for people just to rent vendors from us instead of us having business arrangements where we sell other people's goods ON our vendors. Why pay for a lifetime of steak or even hamburgers when cows are cheaper? Players who only want this benefit will only get management 4 so they can just rent out their six vendors and collect the rent checks, and meanwhile while we are trying to come up with arrangements with crafters for goods to sell on our vendors they're asking us, "Yeah but wouldn't it be cheaper for me just to rent a vendor from someone?"
That aside I do think that solely renting out the tents would be a beneficial arrangement, especially for Artisans with the Business 3 vendor. If we could do this so that vendor renting would be left out I'd be all for it.
I think the ability to rent structures would be a very positive one. As far as renting vendors goes, maybe that should be something only a Master can do. The term "Merchant" can encompass many, many things. To my mind, a merchant is a facilitator. Some may sell things, others may help other people sell things, and so on.
Some other good ideas about vendors are already posted. Adding the ability for Merchants to do things in accordance with a range of activities encompassing the very broad category "Merchant" cannot be a bad thing, in my opinion. Some Merchants would like to buy and sell other people's goods. Others might want to be landlords.
I agree totally. It's just that the abillity to rent out vendors could screw the pooch for all of us. Relegating it to Master might help thin it out, it would definitely keep dabblers looking for easy money away, and would keep it in use for people who actually want to BE merchants. However it could still seriously limit our usefulness if the only thing to prevent renting vendors from being more advantageous or desireable than actually going through merchants is price, which is an unreliable counter balance.
However, like I said, I'm in full agreement that renting the tents themselves could be a positive and lucrative change, however, without a vendor to go with it we slightly limit the market, which COULD be a very good thing. It's one of those things where we'd have to see what people would actually pay for, both to us and with skill points, what uses they'd make out of it, and how badly they'd want it. But it's a good idea.
JTGAlpha wrote:I agree totally. It's just that the abillity to rent out vendors could screw the pooch for all of us. Relegating it to Master might help thin it out, it would definitely keep dabblers looking for easy money away, and would keep it in use for people who actually want to BE merchants. However it could still seriously limit our usefulness if the only thing to prevent renting vendors from being more advantageous or desireable than actually going through merchants is price, which is an unreliable counter balance.
However, like I said, I'm in full agreement that renting the tents themselves could be a positive and lucrative change, however, without a vendor to go with it we slightly limit the market, which COULD be a very good thing. It's one of those things where we'd have to see what people would actually pay for, both to us and with skill points, what uses they'd make out of it, and how badly they'd want it. But it's a good idea.
My problem with Merchant is that currently it's a one-trick pony. Vendors, vendors, vendors. Vendors all day, every day. Meh. Give me something else to do that fits under the guise of "Merchant". Give me more lots at Master so I can put structures on them and rent them for outrageous prices. I want to be a bloody slumlord, only paying the maintenance when the protests become violent, the buildings are on fire and the Mayor starts sending me nasty notes as I'm enjoying a fat cigar in the cantina spending my ill-gotten gains.
I want to be able to run commodities markets, and sell futures. I want many things that have nothing to do with vendors, and I worry that the focus on vendors is what is going to keep Merchant a niche class at best, if not a total throwaway.
Give merchants more things to do, but don't only focus on making vendors more Merchant-centric. Add tools and features to the vendor system, sure. But that cannot, and must not, be the be-all and end-all of Merchant.
I'm against renting merchant tents to non merchants. Their purpose is to give merchants a distinctive building to house a vendor. A building that says "Come inside there is a vendor here". We asked for that and for the ability to make our houses distinctive with different signs. You can place a house sign on any house you have admin rights on..which means that sign is useless to identify the house as a merchant shop. I don't want to make the merchant tent the usless as well.
I don't disagree with those who would like a city "Mall" type building. I am for that too with the same "Merchant Only" restriction. In fact a "City Mall" that could only be run by a Master Merchant would be a VERY nice perk.
What would be the purpose again for renting structures ? If you kept the lots and the user got to use the structure and they pay maintenance which includes a fee for your services that might be a money making opportunity but not very large scale one because of the 10 lot limit.
Elminnster wrote:
Just wanted that I agree with you guys... Let us get something that not focus on vendors to the merchant class... and uhm... vendors shouldn't be rented out, it's a merchant only asset at the moment... and it would defintely ruin something by renting them our...
I don't see how it would ruin anything to rent them out. Most other classes that produce something can provide the fruits of their labors to others. Weaponsmiths sell weapons, doctors provide buffs, and so on. Why can't Merchants have a means of providing a useful service to other classes? I'd love to be able to help a weaponsmith set up a shop and provide the vendors for him in exchange for a nice kickback on the vendor. Of course, I could buy weapons from him and sell them in bulk, but that's not something everyone wants to do.
I'm talking about adding something to the class, not taking it away. Merchants would remain the only ones who could create or place the more advanced vendors. This would just give us another way to use them (and incidentally, resolve the "dropping the skill but keeping the vendor issue as well).
DocSavag wrote:I'm against renting merchant tents to non merchants. Their purpose is to give merchants a distinctive building to house a vendor. A building that says "Come inside there is a vendor here". We asked for that and for the ability to make our houses distinctive with different signs. You can place a house sign on any house you have admin rights on..which means that sign is useless to identify the house as a merchant shop. I don't want to make the merchant tent the usless as well.
I don't disagree with those who would like a city "Mall" type building. I am for that too with the same "Merchant Only" restriction. In fact a "City Mall" that could only be run by a Master Merchant would be a VERY nice perk.
What would be the purpose again for renting structures ? If you kept the lots and the user got to use the structure and they pay maintenance which includes a fee for your services that might be a money making opportunity but not very large scale one because of the 10 lot limit.
The essential problem with this position (as I see it) is that it prevents Merchants from doing what most other classes can do, and that is to provide a service or product. Right now, Merchants are extremely insular, as we cannot actually provide a service *directly* to others, for example by using our skills to do something for them they cannot do themselves (as in placing a tent and vendor for someone in return for money).
Maybe Master Merchants should get additional "rental" lots that can only be used for placing structures for other players or something. There are ways, I think, to make this idea work- I don't want it dismissed out of hand, because the Merchant class is already too self-contained as it is. Anything that improves our ability to directly work with and provide services to other classes is a good thing, in my opinion.
JimerLins wrote:
Elminnster wrote:
Just wanted that I agree with you guys... Let us get something that not focus on vendors to the merchant class... and uhm... vendors shouldn't be rented out, it's a merchant only asset at the moment... and it would defintely ruin something by renting them our...
I don't see how it would ruin anything to rent them out. Most other classes that produce something can provide the fruits of their labors to others. Weaponsmiths sell weapons, doctors provide buffs, and so on. Why can't Merchants have a means of providing a useful service to other classes? I'd love to be able to help a weaponsmith set up a shop and provide the vendors for him in exchange for a nice kickback on the vendor. Of course, I could buy weapons from him and sell them in bulk, but that's not something everyone wants to do.
I'm talking about adding something to the class, not taking it away. Merchants would remain the only ones who could create or place the more advanced vendors. This would just give us another way to use them (and incidentally, resolve the "dropping the skill but keeping the vendor issue as well).
This supposes that vendors are the "fruits" of our labors and they aren't They are the tools of our trade.Renting them to someone else makes them the merchant..not the person who rents them the equipment. I think it devalues our profession.
The problem is that a vendor is not a gun or a buff. Buffs go away. A gun analgous to weaponsmith as vendor is merchant. A gun SCHEMATIC is a closer match. The weaponsmith makes guns to sell them. The schematic is what makes him able to make guns. Now that schematic is only able to be used by non-weaponsmiths if a factory runs it for you, and it has a limited run. The vendor does something for the merchant much like a schematic does. Only more so. The vendor bypasses the 25 item limit and the 3k cap on the bazaar, and allows you to sell things in up to six locations. That's a heck of a benefit. And the vendor lasts as LONG as you want it to. As long as you can pay it and don't want to move it, you get the benefit of having it, which is your own personal, no limit sales venue.
Now, if you rent out a vendor, and non-merchants have vendors, what do they need us for? Why would you sell your goods to me or consign your goods to me to sell? I agree we need other things to do, but the abillity to rent out what we do without our having to do anything isn't it.
DocSavag wrote:
JimerLins wrote:
Elminnster wrote:
Just wanted that I agree with you guys... Let us get something that not focus on vendors to the merchant class... and uhm... vendors shouldn't be rented out, it's a merchant only asset at the moment... and it would defintely ruin something by renting them our...
I don't see how it would ruin anything to rent them out. Most other classes that produce something can provide the fruits of their labors to others. Weaponsmiths sell weapons, doctors provide buffs, and so on. Why can't Merchants have a means of providing a useful service to other classes? I'd love to be able to help a weaponsmith set up a shop and provide the vendors for him in exchange for a nice kickback on the vendor. Of course, I could buy weapons from him and sell them in bulk, but that's not something everyone wants to do.
I'm talking about adding something to the class, not taking it away. Merchants would remain the only ones who could create or place the more advanced vendors. This would just give us another way to use them (and incidentally, resolve the "dropping the skill but keeping the vendor issue as well).This supposes that vendors are the "fruits" of our labors and they aren't They are the tools of our trade. Renting them to someone else makes them the merchant..not the person who rents them the equipment. I think it devalues our profession.
Currently, they are the only thing that Merchants can do that other classes can't, aside from little stuff like signs and so on (cool, but really trivial as a class skill). I'd like to see us expand what we can do with them, and what they can do for us. Giving Merchants the ability to manage and/or create vendors for other players would make the profession more powerful, not less, I think. Many people who would have used a terminal vendor at Business III would go to a Merchant for a tent and a nice Ithorian or something if we could do it for them. Merchants would actually be in demand by other players.
Basically, I'd like to see Merchant be able to *directly* provide a service to other players that is supported by game mechanics. Right now, the closest approach we have to that is buying from other players in bulk and selling at a profit. That's awesome, but we should be able to do more.
JTGAlpha wrote:The problem is that a vendor is not a gun or a buff. Buffs go away. A gun analgous to weaponsmith as vendor is merchant. A gun SCHEMATIC is a closer match. The weaponsmith makes guns to sell them. The schematic is what makes him able to make guns. Now that schematic is only able to be used by non-weaponsmiths if a factory runs it for you, and it has a limited run. The vendor does something for the merchant much like a schematic does. Only more so. The vendor bypasses the 25 item limit and the 3k cap on the bazaar, and allows you to sell things in up to six locations. That's a heck of a benefit. And the vendor lasts as LONG as you want it to. As long as you can pay it and don't want to move it, you get the benefit of having it, which is your own personal, no limit sales venue.
Now, if you rent out a vendor, and non-merchants have vendors, what do they need us for? Why would you sell your goods to me or consign your goods to me to sell? I agree we need other things to do, but the abillity to rent out what we do without our having to do anything isn't it.
This is what I see as the biggest problem with Merchant- we focus far too much on vendors, mostly because it's the only thing we have at the moment that other classes can't duplicate (except artisans with the appropriate Business skill (Tricksy Artisans! They stole it from us! Nasty, tricksy Artisanses!
). As a class, Merchants could be so much more, but this artificial focus on vendors limits our vision, in my opinion. I don't care if other classes can have vendors, as long as they can't place, move or do the neat tricks we can do with them, like make them talk, maybe offer discounts, do some of the other things that are being discussed. Being able to provide them to other classes (limit one per customer, probably) won't break the profession. It'll make the profession more valued, in my opinion.