Merchant Archive
Thread: 2 pence on dropping merchant skills after dropping vendors...
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EgorKDie
Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:10 am
#1
DocSavage wrote:
"If you have 2 vendors or more you are usingyour merchant skills. If you use the global advertising you are using your skills."
If you use a T-21, you are using Rifleman skills. Even a novice Marksman can use a T-21, just not very well.
Consider the benefits of being a Master Merchant over someone who has dropped it...
1. They both have the listed benefits of the class...
2. The Master has flexability that the other player does not. Placing new tents, moving vendors around, finding that new market, actively USING their merchant skills.... which leads me onto...
Levelling up in merchant is anologous to setting up a new business: Finding a market, getting a shop there, hiring some sales staff, advertising your wares.
The ability to buy a shop and start it running is not the same as keeping it running.
The ability to find some staff to work for you is not the same as paying their wages.
The ability to start an advertising contract is not the same as paying for it to keep running.
There is a very good RL explanation for why Merchant works the way it does just now. Instead of submitting the class to the dreaded nerf (Which will have people screaming), why not increase the benefits of having merchant.
There are already skills which merchants have that you do not retain the benefit for: Reductions in costs. How about other similar benefits... Just off the top of my head:
1. Haggling : Merchant gets extra 5-20% of price off sales. (Seller gets the listed price but merchant spends less)
2. Price Hike : Merchant gets extra 5-20% when selling items. (Buyer pays listed price but merchant receives more)
3. Increased Inventory : Sructures can hold more Items, i.e. a small house goes from 150 to 225 items (50% increase)
4. Sandwich Board : Merchants have increased personal advertising options (Instead of the hated AFK starport spamming), adding a radial ability to link straight to 1 of your vendors (which ever you have linked to)... So you can still AFK at a starport and make sales from your vendor, without the spamming.
4 Quick ideas that merchants could not maintain once being dropped (as they are not linked to structures except VERY indirectly) that make merchant a BETTER class than what is being proposed in many areas, oh and isn't yet another nerf...
I would actually like to see the options that people are bitter about : Vendors/Tents/Advertising/Hiring options placed in every crafting tree as well as in merchant (Limiting itto what there is now, before you all jump on my back), and making merchant a unique class instead of a prerequisite for crafters.
Lastly, there is another class that retains benefits of a sort once the skills are dropped... its called hologrinding...
Sorry for the length of the post.
Egor K'Die
Master Weaponsmith / Master Merchant
Action Gamer City
Naboo
Ahazi
Asteroids
Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:39 am
#2
/nod
Some good postitive ideas imho. I'm bias though to people who focus on positives rather than negatives.
DocSavag
Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:58 am
#3
Burried in the middle of your post is the "give all our skills to everyone else" arguement that just doesn't fly. Merchant is NOT a prerequisite for crafting professions. It is a prerequsite for efficiently selling large numbers of items to many customers. Crafters can sell through the bazaar, on the corner, or to a wholesaler without a single vendor or with a vendor provided in the Artisan tree. If they want to run their own store they can get merchant to do that.
Your ideas basically come down to:
Credit Faucets (Money generated from the system not from players) - these are bad and probably won't get implemented because the economy has more credits in it now than is healthy.
More Items in the Galaxy: Extra storage space will simply not happen. The Devs are LIMITING space with the vendor chagnes. Adding that space to houses is counter to their desired goal.
More Advertising: This idea is good, there are several ideas about advertising that I would love to see implemented. In publish 8 we are apparently getting a Merchant Ad Barking droid of some kind. That will be interesting.
I support advances and new features in our profession and we have outlined several in our Top 5 responses and elsewhere, however this simply doesn't mean that everyone should be able to use vendors without having to have skill points sunk into them.
EgorKDie
Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:41 am
#4
DocSavage wrote:
"Merchant is NOT a prerequisite for crafting professions. It is a prerequsite for efficiently selling large numbers of items to many customers."
There are RL parallels to be made. I am not abusinessman but that doesn't stopme paying a kid to work behind a counter all day. Its unrealistic for a merchant to be a vendor handler.
"Burried in the middle of your post is the "give all our skills to everyone else" arguement that just doesn't fly."
You are trying to turn my argument into a tired old one... stop it.
A merchant is not someone who sells things. A merchant is someone who makes deals, resells for increased profit, knows how to better turn a credit than someone who is not. Anyone can sell things, even make some money on it, a merchant will know exactly HOW to do it, do it well, and better than me...
Where does paying a kid to work behind a counter come into that?
In response:
"Credit Faucets (Money generated from the system not from players) - these are bad and probably won't get implemented because the economy has more credits in it now than is healthy."
Merchant is the ONLY class that doesn't generate money from the system. Fighting classes run missions, crafters sell their wares, merchants could have a unique way of generating money, if only you'd let them.
"More Items in the Galaxy: Extra storage space will simply not happen. The Devs are LIMITING space with the vendor chagnes. Adding that space to houses is counter to their desired goal."
You (deliberatly?) misinterpretate me again and seem to have a mixed argument. Extra space in houses = less vendor space??? The two don't match up. I'll answer the point you are trying to make: Precisely because DEVs are limiting vendor space (affecting everybody), Merchants get (wait for it) a bonus to the amount they can keep in storage for their vendors meaning their vendors will be better stocked over the long term (Wow it sounds like ahome shop versus a business doesn't it...) as a merchant should be. No more items will be created (no increase on DB load), so whats your problem?
"More Advertising: This idea is good, there are several ideas about advertising that I would love to see implemented. In publish 8 we are apparently getting a Merchant Ad Barking droid of some kind. That will be interesting."
I'm glad you like something. However why have an Ad Barking Droid (Droid Engineers hate this idea by the way), when many Merchants sit AFK marco shouting anyway... Why not let Merchants have a superior form of planetary advertising, by using themsleves as a tele-vendor, only merchants could do it.... and can you see what I'm getting at...
"I support advances and new features in our profession and we have outlined several in our Top 5 responses and elsewhere, however this simply doesn't mean that everyone should be able to use vendors without having to have skill points sunk into them."
Only if you are too bullheaded to see past that point. If you give everyone the ability to use vendors without having the skill points... You can make merchant a truely unique class. There are many good ideas on this forum for turning merchant into something that is fun to play, less contraversial, and different... However they all get shouted down by a similar message to the one above. Try and embrace the change.
Lastly, a quick reason why you will NEVER see vendors getting randomly shut down by the Devs...
1 Vendor = 1 Small House (150 Items) of Items
6 -2 Vendors = 4 Small Houses of Items
4 Small Houses of LOST items due to lack of storage = Too many angry people for them to implement this.
Your turn...
Egor K'Die
Master Weaponsmith / Master Merchant
Action Gamer City
Naboo
Ahazi
Balkstar
Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:45 am
#5
What I would love to see more than anything else in the game is a world full of barking NPC vendors that crafters are stealing from our beloved (maybe too strong a word) profession be morphed overnight into bulky terminal vendors. That way people would really understand the need for permenant members of our professions.
That more then anything else that the devs would do would bring instant respect to our profession, because I know that no crafter would like to see their vending be plunged into the dark age of generic vending.
PREVENT VENDORPOACHING!!!
DocSavag
Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:58 am
#6
Merchant is the ONLY class that doesn't generate money from the system. Fighting classes run missions, crafters sell their wares, merchants could have a unique way of generating money, if only you'd let them.
This statement implies I am somehow blocking this idea. I'm not. I am just telling you that I doubt it will get done because Merchants already have an income supply that comes from other players. Augmenting that with a faucet will increase the number of credtis in the economy which I think the devs will not be happy about. If the forum wants me to pitch that idea I will but I doubt it will succeed.
However why have an Ad Barking Droid (Droid Engineers hate this idea by the way), when many Merchants sit AFK marco shouting anyway... Why not let Merchants have a superior form of planetary advertising, by using themsleves as a tele-vendor, only merchants could do it.... and can you see what I'm getting at...
The point of the droid is that it can have price lists and other things. I am not aware that the droid engineers "hate" this idea. What do they care if I want to buy a droid to ad bark? They make money on it and several merchants here have already said they would purchase one. I'm not suggesting that it is the end all of advertising. I like the signboard too but it sounds like the sticking point might be the art work required for it. We have had whole discussions about signage in player cities etc so advertising is definitely something we agree that there should be more of.
Only if you are too bullheaded to see past that point. If you give everyone the ability to use vendors without having the skill points... You can make merchant a truely unique class. There are many good ideas on this forum for turning merchant into something that is fun to play, less contraversial, and different... However they all get shouted down by a similar message to the one above. Try and embrace the change.
So unless I agree with you I am bullheaded? That really is a discussion stopper there so I"ll just let it sit at I don't agree with you on removing vendors as the defining merchant skill perk.
Lastly, a quick reason why you will NEVER see vendors getting randomly shut down by the Devs...
1 Vendor = 1 Small House (150 Items) of Items
6 -2 Vendors = 4 Small Houses of Items
4 Small Houses of LOST items due to lack of storage = Too many angry people for them to implement this.
I think you underestimate how serious the development team is about limiting the vendor storage issue. I think they will limit both the number of items and the number of vendors in the galaxy. People will be angry. Some will leave the game. Others will stay in th game and do other things. Some will continue on and learn how to do business under the new rules. Others will join the profession and having never seen the "Before" will not really understand what the big deal is. I never argued for a limit to the number of items on vendors. I did infact argue against that. But it is going to happen in one form or the other.
JasonK
Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:54 pm
#7
I can see it now. Give friend 1 million credits. Friend buysfirework from vendor for 1 million credits. Friend trades back firework. Put firework back on vendor. Repeat until you're a billionaire (couple hours) cause you're earning 20% on top of whatever your friend is "buying".
EgorKDie wrote:
There are already skills which merchants have that you do not retain the benefit for: Reductions in costs. How about other similar benefits... Just off the top of my head:
1. Haggling : Merchant gets extra 5-20% of price off sales. (Seller gets the listed price but merchant spends less)
2. Price Hike : Merchant gets extra 5-20% when selling items. (Buyer pays listed price but merchant receives more)
DocSavag
Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:57 pm
#8
The best monitary ideas I have heard have to do with discounted travel expenses. Which has the effect of making galactic commerce cheaper for merchants and gives merchants the chance to resell travel tickets. Though to do it effectively they would have to be allowed to purchase them in cases or something.
Message Edited by DocSavag on 02-27-2004 04:57 PM
GoCanes
Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:51 pm
#9
DocSavag wrote:
The best monitary ideas I have heard have to do with discounted travel expenses. Which has the effect of making galactic commerce cheaper for merchants and gives merchants the chance to resell travel tickets. Though to do it effectively they would have to be allowed to purchase them in cases or something.
Message Edited by DocSavag on 02-27-2004 04:57 PM
Plus the fact there is a category for tickets on the Bazaar, would seem to indicate this would be a viable side-business if there was some way to make money instead of losing 12 credits listing fee on Bazaar...
GoCanes
Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:43 am
#10
EgorKDie wrote:
4. Sandwich Board : Merchants have increased personal advertising options (Instead of the hated AFK starport spamming), adding a radial ability to link straight to 1 of your vendors (which ever you have linked to)... So you can still AFK at a starport and make sales from your vendor, without the spamming.
I would like to see this option implemented with our upcoming Merchant/Ad-Barking Droid Modules... Mkae ti so the droid can be parked in one area and will ad-bark, but add the feature to allow people to browse your vendors from this location and then travel to the vendor for pickup (possibly exploitable)or even better allow instant pickup from your droid for a small fee, maybe a percentage of the purchase (money sink for the Devs)...
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