Merchant Archive
Thread: Why Should People Who Don't Have Merchant Loose Their Venders, A Valid Arguement Why They Should
joined42904 wrote:
Well...DarthAbyssmal....
I'd be fine letting you have one vendor stocking 25 items if the vendor would randomly steal 20% of your stock each day and keep a hefty commission on everything sold. That's about as effectively as non-TKMs can use VKs.
followed by:
Brilyn posted:
< lets follow that line of reasoning...lets nerf all the combat prof's so they can only use weapons they have cert's for >
I'll pay you $10,000 in RL money if you can solo a Mokk lair with a T21 and no Marksman/Rifleman skills.
Your logic is flawed.
Elyssa wrote:
This topic is false advertisement.
I came here looking for a valid "arguement" for why people who don't have merchant shouldn't lose their "venders" but I have yet to see one.
There are actually several, none of which are going to matter a tinker's damn to folks entrenched in a class that can't see past what they perceive as a grevious wrong - even if the 'solution' is selfdefeating.
Those that maintain vendors are the sole right of a merchant 'class' and refuse to acknowledge how pitiful the thing is as anything deserving of profession status will never see merchant as anything more than it is right now. By demanding this 'right' - you have successfully given the devs every reason in the world to continue ignoring development of very necessary and needed tools that MIGHT make it 'worth' the expended points to have. I HAVE a master merchant - and a 3rd account with a bit of merchant as well, but I understand all too well where folks are coming from on the other side of the fence, and they too have very valid issues, not the least of which is any game mechanic - bug or not that exists a year out from release becomes a 'norm' - and they have every right to pitch a fit over taking away functionality without replacing it with viable alternatives for the same needs.
By defining yourselfs ONLY by vendors you've limited yourself. Vendors have served many useful purposes - some good, some bad, but they've been player adaptations and workarounds to very needed functionality.
DarthAbbyssal wrote:
I'll respond to both these at once, and double your offer, Brilyn: I'll offer you $20k RL cash AND shares in my company (I run a custom computers business) if you can cloth, activate barking, and register on the global map any vender without the merchant skills.
once a vender is placed and set, if you drop merch, that's it, all over, done, no modification available. Sure, you can still use it, but you can't modify it, move it, make it say anything defferent, ect. These penalties are just as harsh as the weapon penalties without certs. Yes, ok, non-merchants still get to use the vender, but the non-rifleman can still use the t-21, too. Ok, so the non-rifleman cant solo a Kimo...the non merch cant re-arange the venders, either. I still maintain some merchant skill. I also maintain combat skills on top of master WS and Artisian. My point was meant to show exactly what you pointed out-toons that do not have certs can still use items, just not at full effectiveness...same as non-merchant vender users.
Drop master scout - keep small tent ability
Drop master ranger - keep 10+ terrain negotiation.
Drop master merchant - keep 1 small vendor
joined42904 wrote:
Wire3k,
Players in groups can of course work around vendors by selling to each other in person. That doesn't seem like "merchant" activity to me as you are dealing with identifiable individuals whom you have spoken to, not offering goods at fixed prices to the general public. I'm happy to let folks have this work-around. I don't think it harms the merchant profession at all.
Saying merchants should not define themselves by their vendors and discounts is in my opinion a lot like saying that riflemen should not define themselves by the types of rifles they have access to.
Vendors are the bridges between players. The beauty of a MMO is that folks are on at all different times but can still form communities and a cohesive whole, the problem with a MMO is - players are on at all different times. Vendors have and do play a large part in bringing all these pieces together so they can be cohesive.
The more bridges - the better off everyone is. Discounts, naw - all 'perks' SHOULD be skill retained only- the problem is, merchant has such pitiful 'perks' it's quite natural for those that retain the skill to be defensive - it's all they have. That doesn't mean the profession as it sits is worthy - in most players eyes - of being a class, much less an elite class.
What we've been given is a stick - what SHOULD be done are carrots - pump enough 'stuff' into merchant that it IS a viable WANTED alternative to spend points on, and oh - BTW, actually justify it as an elite class as well as addressingvery legitimate needs that the underlaying systems have mandated.
Jumping down folks throats here that come in seeking advice and calling them exploiters(or worse) is not very helpful. We all work with the systems given as best we can, and anyone that thinks that there are no problems and everything is just hunky-dory perfect can wipe the brown off their noses right now. There are problems. There are some very very SERIOUS problems, real needs that have developed from systems we have no control over. Of any player group - those that wish to sell goods should have the overall health and happiness of ALL players at heart - everyone is a potential customer.
No, the real value of merchant is the ability to move the venders' location. The 'window dressing' is a perk, just like /concealshot. Just because today the location of your vender is perfect, and it sells out of its 1k of items in a week, doesn't mean that next month, or even next week, that location will still be just as prime. I am completely behind SOE's removal of empty venders from the global map, as well as the removal of venders that are behind on maintenance. Yes, non-merchants still get to sell items, some even soak people for their hard-earned credits by overchargeing (I'm not in that group, I'm one of the undercutter group.) If you cannot move to where the market is strongest, you will eventually shrivel and die off as a business when your target market does the same.
BoberFett wrote:
You're not serious, are you? You think the real value of merchant is dressing vendors?
Get real. The value of merchant is having vendors to sell your stuff 24/7. Re-dressing vendors is all you lose if you drop merchant. How can you say that not moving a vendor is as harsh as not being certed for a weapon? If you're not certed for a weapon, you do a tiny fraction of the damage, and rarely hit what you're aiming at. A vendor that you're poaching still has all the advantages you bestowed upon it when you dropped merchant. It still barks, it's still on the map, it still sells your overpriced loot.
The equivalent to maintaining a vendor after you dropped merchant is still having all of the bonuses you get at master rifleman if you never unequip your T21. You could drop all rifleman, and take up master doctor and master medic. The only thing you can't do is unequip your T21, or you'd lose your rifle skills. How is that fair?
I disagree, see my above post. Can't sell anything if no-one is looking in on your vender. They go hand-in-hand.
joined42904 wrote:
DarthAbyssmal,
The real use of the merchant skill is not in the placement or barking or uniform of the vendor. That isn't the real use. The real use of the merchant skill is in the daily selling of merchandise, not what the vendor says or whether the vendor is attired in one manner or another.
Message Edited by DarthAbbyssal on 08-17-2004 12:29 PM
Be0Wulfe wrote:
Oh push off.
If you've had a vendor forever and never kept the skills for it, you deserve a thorough drubbing and loss of the vendors you do have.
I'm tired of slacktards who can justify their own pitiful reasons while some of us have doggedly kept the skills we "needed" - regardless.
Get a clue, you want vendors, get a merchant skill. You want storage, plop down some factories\houses\whatever.
If you are talking to ME Beo - I not only have a master merchant - I have a 3rd account with quite a bit of mixed merchant skills. This kind of attitude is what's not helpful, it's vindictive and seeking to punish players for what you see is a personal grievance instead of looking at what has been a problem and ways to address those problems all around.
I have no idea what you sell - but good luck finding 'loot' items if folks that have the skills to harvest them can't sell them in a reasonable fashion. They too are part of the economy, denying them access to reasonable methods of distribution isn't helping anyone. Whether you are an end consumer or a buyer looking to resell.
There are some that will take up merchant - giving up their hunting skills. Say goodbye to those people as potential customers for food, armor, weapons or anything vaguely combat related.
There are some that will give up their accounts completely in disgust - say goodbye to those people as potential customers for ANYTHING.
There are some that will give up all crafting completely and piddle around with fighting stuff. I don't give them much hope of staying terribly long - if fighting was that engrossing to them - they probably wouldn't try to have crafted in the first place. Say goodbye to them as possible wholesale suppliers or buyers of resources or components.
There are certainly easier ways to make more credits than anyone 'needs' to function than trying to run a shop/vendor. Those ways however are dependent on a healthy supply of folks willing to devote a certain amount of their time collecting, creating or reselling to other players. While the shift to combat or crafter may eventually even itself out - it's still restricting the very people that have gone out of their way to try to fill their play experience as best suits their individual tastes and are now being told - uhhh no, we have this elite class over here that as it stands has no validity beyond this artificial means of creating it. YOU don't see it that way - others do - and they have some very valid points.
Brilyn wrote:
< No, the real value of merchant is the ability to move the venders' location.>
Nonsense. Utter nonsense.
You can cross the galaxy in 10-15 minutes at worst now.
Even before the shuttle change, I had people tell me they were willing to take two shuttles to get to my store.
I've never moved my vendors. I will never move my vendors.
If you move your store frequently, repeat customers will never find it, and you'll lose their business.
I salute you, then. I have found it nessesary to move my venders around 3 times now. As venders in proximity to mine stopped being re-supplied, business dried up. As I have said, I am an undercutter; I sell my weapons at well below market cost, and i dont sell junk, they are on par with weapons being sold by the top WS's on the server. Even so, with my highest cost non-limited run weapon selling at only 5k, business beyond the resellers I sell to has dried up from 2 previous locations as other venders dried up.
Also, I have my re-sellers go to my home vender now, not my mall venders, as my home vender usually has better selection; in this way i keep my 'repeat' customers.
Message Edited by DarthAbbyssal on 08-17-2004 12:41 PM