Merchant Archive
Thread: Alternative Perks for Master Merchants
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DesktopSaki
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:42 pm
#1
I'm a big fan of offering potential solutions if you're going to complain, so since I've been swearing at my monitor all week (and my guild is tired of hearing me kvetch), here's my *constructive* input. No doubt there's loopholes, but what can I say? I'm only a genius on Thursdays.
Possible suggestions:
* You must get merchant skills to get vendors (unchanged). If you drop the skills you do not lose them, however, the caps lower and any excess items are put into the stockroom (random).
* Basic cap on vendors would be 150 to 200 items. Merchants can have up to 600 items on a vendor, depending on skill. This may seem high, but it's to accomodate for the limited space available on non-Merchant vendors, and for the increase in players coming to them with goods to sell.
* Those without merchant skills have much higher but not unreasonable maintenance fees.
* Merchants have two pools of vendors: their basic six, and another two to four they can "rent out." Players pay them a fee in advanced and are able to manage the vendor as if they owned it. Any item sold on the vendor automatically gives the Merchant a 10% cut. The remainder goes to the renter. Or it comes in the form of a "deed" that they give to another player, all maintenance goes to the Merchant, as does the 10% cut. This ability would disappear when the Merchant dropped the appropriate skill box; both the Merchant and the renter would be notified, and there'd be 15 to 30 days to clear out the vendor before it was automatically removed.
* Basic cap on vendors would be 150 to 200 items. Merchants can have up to 600 items on a vendor, depending on skill. This may seem high, but it's to accomodate for the limited space available on non-Merchant vendors, and for the increase in players coming to them with goods to sell.
* Those without merchant skills have much higher but not unreasonable maintenance fees.
* Merchants have two pools of vendors: their basic six, and another two to four they can "rent out." Players pay them a fee in advanced and are able to manage the vendor as if they owned it. Any item sold on the vendor automatically gives the Merchant a 10% cut. The remainder goes to the renter. Or it comes in the form of a "deed" that they give to another player, all maintenance goes to the Merchant, as does the 10% cut. This ability would disappear when the Merchant dropped the appropriate skill box; both the Merchant and the renter would be notified, and there'd be 15 to 30 days to clear out the vendor before it was automatically removed.
* Master Merchants (or highly skilled merchants) get the "stockboy" option mentioned in another thread. If you have ten harvester deeds, only one will appear in the "for sale" inventory at a time, but if you buy one, another one pops into its place. They can earmark what items they want the "stockboy" to refill, so if they still want all ten harvesters shown, they'll all be shown.
* Merchant trainers will give Master Merchants (only) cash for junk items: rebel and imperial transmissions, D18 pistols, looted clothing. Any amounts would be double or triple what a Junk Vendor would offer (if anything). A big benefit of this would be that it would get a lot of these junk items out of the game. Handmade items would *not* be exchangeable. (Or: Items made by anyone other than the Merchant or by a factory would not be exchangeable.)
* You will have to accomplish certain levels of sales or certain tasks before you can complete a given box of Merchant skill. This is to counter the current "sit back and watch" method of levelling a vendor. As it stands now, once you have down one vendor, all you have to do is place more as experience allows, and no further work or investment is needed.
* You may not bark unless you have the appropriate current Merchant skills.
* You may not have anything other than the default sign unless you have current Merchant skills.
* Merchant trainers will give Master Merchants (only) cash for junk items: rebel and imperial transmissions, D18 pistols, looted clothing. Any amounts would be double or triple what a Junk Vendor would offer (if anything). A big benefit of this would be that it would get a lot of these junk items out of the game. Handmade items would *not* be exchangeable. (Or: Items made by anyone other than the Merchant or by a factory would not be exchangeable.)
* You will have to accomplish certain levels of sales or certain tasks before you can complete a given box of Merchant skill. This is to counter the current "sit back and watch" method of levelling a vendor. As it stands now, once you have down one vendor, all you have to do is place more as experience allows, and no further work or investment is needed.
* You may not bark unless you have the appropriate current Merchant skills.
* You may not have anything other than the default sign unless you have current Merchant skills.
* Master Merchants have a reduction in house maintenance for any building with two or more of their own vendors in them. Any local taxes or fees would still fully apply.
* You *may* remain listed on the local map without merchant skills, but at a weekly fee that must be paid in person to a local NPC "Chamber of Commerce." (Or perhaps something similar that can only be maintained by a Master Merchant.) If you forget to pay the fee twice, you are permanently removed have to regain your merchant skills to be placed back on. Those holding the appropriate Merchant skills would be fee exempt, but must still "report in" every two to four weeks to stay on the map. Only Master Merchants may be placed without fee; all others must play a reasonable fee for placement.
* You *may* remain listed on the local map without merchant skills, but at a weekly fee that must be paid in person to a local NPC "Chamber of Commerce." (Or perhaps something similar that can only be maintained by a Master Merchant.) If you forget to pay the fee twice, you are permanently removed have to regain your merchant skills to be placed back on. Those holding the appropriate Merchant skills would be fee exempt, but must still "report in" every two to four weeks to stay on the map. Only Master Merchants may be placed without fee; all others must play a reasonable fee for placement.
* Vendors that go empty for more than 48 hours, or without maintenance for more than 7 days,are automatically removed.
* If in a playertown, the Mayor or Chamber of Commerce can vote to remove vendors containing only "examination" items.
* Master Merchants would be able to place ia certain number of tems on the galactic Bazaar that exceed the current 6000 cred limit, and have moreoffers standing at a time than non-Master Merchants. This would apply to those holding lesser merchant skills on planetary and local Bazaars according to their skill. This would be a huge boon.
* If in a playertown, the Mayor or Chamber of Commerce can vote to remove vendors containing only "examination" items.
* Master Merchants would be able to place ia certain number of tems on the galactic Bazaar that exceed the current 6000 cred limit, and have moreoffers standing at a time than non-Master Merchants. This would apply to those holding lesser merchant skills on planetary and local Bazaars according to their skill. This would be a huge boon.
* ALL players would be able to have 50 (or more) offers pending instead of 25, to help make up for the number of vendors removed from the game.
* Merchants may register their vendors on a planetwide search list by type (resources, wearables, weapons, furniture, etc.). You must retain your merchant skills to remain on the list. Quality and other details would be listed, but price would not be listed, lest we see EQ-like "lowest price/undercutting" wars that came with the Bazaar.
* Merchants or Master Merchants may also register on a planetwide or galactic "taking offers" list that includes their locations and what they're buying. This lets the players with items to sell and no vendors know where to go to sell them. This list may or may not incur a fee to the Merchant. It may or may not list what they're offering to pay. (See above.)
And two I doubt many would support, but I think are worth throwing out there...
* Merchants may register their vendors on a planetwide search list by type (resources, wearables, weapons, furniture, etc.). You must retain your merchant skills to remain on the list. Quality and other details would be listed, but price would not be listed, lest we see EQ-like "lowest price/undercutting" wars that came with the Bazaar.
* Merchants or Master Merchants may also register on a planetwide or galactic "taking offers" list that includes their locations and what they're buying. This lets the players with items to sell and no vendors know where to go to sell them. This list may or may not incur a fee to the Merchant. It may or may not list what they're offering to pay. (See above.)
And two I doubt many would support, but I think are worth throwing out there...
* Master Merchants who are also Master Artisans (or who have Surveying IV)receive a harvesting bonus via harvesters (5% or so).
* Master Merchants regain a portion of their skill points once they reach and RETAIN Master Merchant. If it costs 63 points to reach Master Merchant, the Merchant will regain 28 points *OR* get an additional 28 points in a separate skill pool upon reaching Master Merchant. Those points could be spent anywhere, but to drop Master Merchant status, the player will have to either surrender the equivalent amount of skills OR completely drop all Merchant Skills at once, returning to Novice Merchant or Business IV. (This allows them a little more room to take up a combat or artisan skill since Merchant, as a skillset, is virtually non-interactive apart from drumming up business. And we have enough spam already.)
Seems to me there's plenty of ways to "fix" merchants without a total nerf.
MaDuece
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:15 pm
#2
DesktopSaki wrote:
* You must get merchant skills to get vendors (unchanged). If you drop the skills you do not lose them, however, the caps lower and any excess items are put into the stockroom (random).
DISAGREE. If you drop your merchant skills, you need to lose your vendors. The days of using another profession's means of bread and butter for storage or a halfass money-on-the-side venture needs to end.
* Basic cap on vendors would be 150 to 200 items. Merchants can have up to 600 items on a vendor, depending on skill. This may seem high, but it's to accomodate for the limited space available on non-Merchant vendors, and for the increase in players coming to them with goods to sell.
AGREE with the need for merchants to have more inventory space. 600 per vendor sounds reasonable for most professions except for tailors (sorry tailors there's really not a fair limit on so many color combinations, but 600 should give you a base to work from that will still keep you in business).
DISAGREE about accomodating for nonmerchants who shouldn't have any vendors. This was made available for the player base for over a year know and the player base has proven to be children that will abuse any weakness in the system regardless of its impact on other players.
* Those without merchant skills have much higher but not unreasonable maintenance fees.
MUTE POINT. No merchant skills or at least business 3 = NO VENDORS
* Merchants have two pools of vendors: their basic six, and another two to four they can "rent out." Players pay them a fee in advanced and are able to manage the vendor as if they owned it. Any item sold on the vendor automatically gives the Merchant a 10% cut. The remainder goes to the renter. Or it comes in the form of a "deed" that they give to another player, all maintenance goes to the Merchant, as does the 10% cut. This ability would disappear when the Merchant dropped the appropriate skill box; both the Merchant and the renter would be notified, and there'd be 15 to 30 days to clear out the vendor before it was automatically removed.
AGREE. A better means of notification to allow players a safe option to become strictly noncrafting merchants that want to do retail is needed. However, I see little need to simply give a merchant additional vendors if nonmerchants don't (and shouldn't) get any.
* Master Merchants (or highly skilled merchants) get the "stockboy" option mentioned in another thread. If you have ten harvester deeds, only one will appear in the "for sale" inventory at a time, but if you buy one, another one pops into its place. They can earmark what items they want the "stockboy" to refill, so if they still want all ten harvesters shown, they'll all be shown.
DISAGREE. Just another excuse for people to use vendors as storage space.
* Merchant trainers will give Master Merchants (only) cash for junk items: rebel and imperial transmissions, D18 pistols, looted clothing. Any amounts would be double or triple what a Junk Vendor would offer (if anything). A big benefit of this would be that it would get a lot of these junk items out of the game. Handmade items would *not* be exchangeable. (Or: Items made by anyone other than the Merchant or by a factory would not be exchangeable.)
AGREE. I think the junk dealer payouts should be increased and access remain in place for everyone. It would give the player base even more incentive to use them and provide new players with a little bit better way to break into the economy.
* You will have to accomplish certain levels of sales or certain tasks before you can complete a given box of Merchant skill. This is to counter the current "sit back and watch" method of levelling a vendor. As it stands now, once you have down one vendor, all you have to do is place more as experience allows, and no further work or investment is needed.
DISAGREE. The ability to do business without being logged on is unique to the merchant profession. The amount of traffic a vendor gets depends on the goods vs demand, advertising,and location, location, location. Its all part of good planning and preparation. Don't see anything wrong with the way it is now. If it were THAT easy then why did so many people that were hologrinding save it for last?(next to bounty hunter)
* You may not bark unless you have the appropriate current Merchant skills.
Its that way now.
* You may not have anything other than the default sign unless you have current Merchant skills.Its that way now.
* Master Merchants have a reduction in house maintenance for any building with two or more of their own vendors in them. Any local taxes or fees would still fully apply.
AGREE. Sure I'll go for this.
* You *may* remain listed on the local map without merchant skills, but at a weekly fee that must be paid in person to a local NPC "Chamber of Commerce." (Or perhaps something similar that can only be maintained by a Master Merchant.) If you forget to pay the fee twice, you are permanently removed have to regain your merchant skills to be placed back on. Those holding the appropriate Merchant skills would be fee exempt, but must still "report in" every two to four weeks to stay on the map. Only Master Merchants may be placed without fee; all others must play a reasonable fee for placement.
DISAGREE. Thats the problem we have right now. So many nonmerchant vendors out there on the map owned by players that could really care less about selling anything. They use it for storage, a means of dropoff/pickup, and if anything sells its just a fortunate consequence and therefore simply considered as gravy. I don't want to drive halfway across a planet to find that the only thing left on some guy's vendor is stuff he doesn't want someone to buy anyways.
* Vendors that go empty for more than 48 hours, or without maintenance for more than 7 days,are automatically removed.
DISAGREE. People take vacations, go away to school, get stuck in a hurricane with power outages and no return of power in known sight. Totally unfair.
* If in a playertown, the Mayor or Chamber of Commerce can vote to remove vendors containing only "examination" items.
DISAGREE. This can become a tool of griefing if one player has a spat with another player.
* Master Merchants would be able to place ia certain number of tems on the galactic Bazaar that exceed the current 6000 cred limit, and have moreoffers standing at a time than non-Master Merchants. This would apply to those holding lesser merchant skills on planetary and local Bazaars according to their skill. This would be a huge boon.
DISAGREE. The bazaar is accessable by anyone. Its used for even the crappiest of crap. People are constantly dumping their used weapons on the bazaar. Don't forget that ever usefull melon and cdef you received when you started. The bazaar should remain a low-budget, buyer beware type venue. Any more power given to the player base to increase the present limits would only result in more 0 condition weapons and armor and broken datapads for godknows what people think they can get for them.
* ALL players would be able to have 50 (or more) offers pending instead of 25, to help make up for the number of vendors removed from the game.
DISAGREE. You don't think that a merhcant should get xp at the present game conditions but you don't want to have to make as many trips to the bazaar or someone else's vendor?
* Merchants may register their vendors on a planetwide search list by type (resources, wearables, weapons, furniture, etc.). You must retain your merchant skills to remain on the list. Quality and other details would be listed, but price would not be listed, lest we see EQ-like "lowest price/undercutting" wars that came with the Bazaar.
AGREE. I'll go along with that.
* Merchants or Master Merchants may also register on a planetwide or galactic "taking offers" list that includes their locations and what they're buying. This lets the players with items to sell and no vendors know where to go to sell them. This list may or may not incur a fee to the Merchant. It may or may not list what they're offering to pay. (See above.)
AGREE. This is a good idea as well.
And two I doubt many would support, but I think are worth throwing out there...
* Master Merchants who are also Master Artisans (or who have Surveying IV)receive a harvesting bonus via harvesters (5% or so).
DISAGREE. You are talking about a new profession and it should be called miner.
* Master Merchants regain a portion of their skill points once they reach and RETAIN Master Merchant. If it costs 63 points to reach Master Merchant, the Merchant will regain 28 points *OR* get an additional 28 points in a separate skill pool upon reaching Master Merchant. Those points could be spent anywhere, but to drop Master Merchant status, the player will have to either surrender the equivalent amount of skills OR completely drop all Merchant Skills at once, returning to Novice Merchant or Business IV. (This allows them a little more room to take up a combat or artisan skill since Merchant, as a skillset, is virtually non-interactive apart from drumming up business. And we have enough spam already.)
DISAGREE. Simply rewarding someone with additional skill points for mastering a profession. While I would like that as a merchant it would stir up a world of sh!t with other professions. Just give master merchants more perks and aviod this minefield altogether.
Seems to me there's plenty of ways to "fix" merchants without a total nerf.
AGREE
DesktopSaki
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:20 am
#3
DISAGREE. If you drop your merchant skills, you need to lose your vendors. The days of using another profession's means of bread and butter for storage or a halfass money-on-the-side venture needs to end.
You missed my point that these were alternatives to that, and additional perks to help make Master Merchant more attractive. The issue of whether it should be changed and why is discussed elsewhere. So I'll skip any response that would take me into that discussion; no offense.
DISAGREE. The ability to do business without being logged on is unique to the merchant profession. The amount of traffic a vendor gets depends on the goods vs demand, advertising,and location, location, location. Its all part of good planning and preparation. Don't see anything wrong with the way it is now. If it were THAT easy then why did so many people that were hologrinding save it for last?(next to bounty hunter)
Your point about strong location and goods that are in demand are good ones, but not everyone can set up shop right outside of a spaceport. I'm in a smaller town and understand the XP will come slower, but the point is--I don't have to do anything to get it. I just log in and check it and train when I have to, and make new vendors as they become available. If no one ever checks my vendors, if I never sell a single thing, I can still make Master Merchant.
There's no challenge to reaching Master Merchant. Only to doing it fast. (Please note: Making a living as a Merchant is another story altogether. I'm talking strictly about leveling up, not about anyone's business sense.) I did my first partial grind on it not long ago (regrinding), and once I had three vendors, I literally had to do nothing but train. It wasn't really that satisfying. (Having someone buy something was, but that could happen at Business IV!)
Having to do something else--say, one merchant's quest for each box, more complex as it goes up--would make it more interactive, and make it so that no one can accuse people with Master Merchant under their belts of having gotten it by just "sitting on their butts." Consider it something to separate the men from the boys. Those who really want to Merchant will do it,those who just want a vendor won't bother.
I know it'd make me feel like I'd accomplished more than setting up vendors and waiting. Your mileage may vary.
I know some people who hologrinded Merchant early on because it was easy, and I know some who saved it until last because it was (please don't take offense, not my words) "too boring." Most of those grinders dropped it the second they had it, too.
DISAGREE. People take vacations, go away to school, get stuck in a hurricane with power outages and no return of power in known sight. Totally unfair.
I goofed. That was originally part of the paragraph above it, I had a bad edit. I meant removed from the map, not removed from the game. I'd go with longer time limits, but I am glad they're making the change to remove empty vendors from the map. Removing an actual vendor from the game shouldn't happen nearly so lightly. Apologies for my poor edit-fu there.
DISAGREE. The bazaar is accessable by anyone. Its used for even the crappiest of crap. People are constantly dumping their used weapons on the bazaar. Don't forget that ever usefull melon and cdef you received when you started. The bazaar should remain a low-budget, buyer beware type venue. Any more power given to the player base to increase the present limits would only result in more 0 condition weapons and armor and broken datapads for godknows what people think they can get for them.
The bazaar is used for crap (and small quantity resources) because of the 6k cred limit. Allow Merchants to drop a few nicer items on there, and the quality might improve. Some good gems do show up there sometimes, good armor attachments people just want to move, great resources in small quantities.
DISAGREE. You don't think that a merhcant should get xp at the present game conditions but you don't want to have to make as many trips to the bazaar or someone else's vendor?
I never said a thing about changing the current XP gain methods. I suggested that to be able to train up, the Merchant should have to complete some sort of quest first. And I stand by the higher cap on offers pending, because when I *was* selling my wares to a merchant (who resold), I was constantly hitting that 25 limit. Not to mention if I make all my offers to her and she doesn't check her vendor for several days, then I'd have to go back to her and withdraw offers if I want to drop off an order with someone elsewhere or put anything up on the bazaar.
DISAGREE. You are talking about a new profession and it should be called miner.
As a side note, weren't they originally going to have some sort of miner profession in the game? Or am I thinking of something else?
And while I'm at it since we already get notifications when we buy something or when someone buys from us, how about if we get one when an offer is made? I like to get on offers right away, and that one little line that pops up in my chat box is real easy to overlook!
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