Merchant Archive
Thread: Two types of people opposed to this merchant change
illovich
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:13 pm
#53
If you are type 2. Then really you have no business posting here.Merchant is a profession, and soon to be a very valuable profession. Just like how chef was for a good portion of the game, they are suddenly the profession to be.
Technically, I was type 2, recently I've been type 1 again, and planning to go back to being type 2. This experience, plus these recent announcements has made me realize that for most crafters, the merchant profession is actually a terrible idea, because it forces crafters to spend precious skill points to merely be able to sell what they've made.
Combat classes don't have to spend skill points to loot corpses, so why should crafters have to spend skill points to sell, especially in a game where the economy is supposedly crafter driven.
In short, I do have business posting here. I think the merchant profession should be either be taken out of the game or moved to a separate skill point tree, and I've decided to bring my ideas here.
Brilyn
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:21 pm
#54
< I'd venture that besides whatever other insidious purpose they have, they wanted to make merchant a more viable class.>
Look, this is how it needs to work, from where I'm sitting.
Either:
The facility to sell by consignment is created. I (via an actual game interface) have permission to load my stuff onto someone else's vendor. I set a price. The Vendor then has an automatic % markup for the Merchants cut (which has to be agreed to by both parties). The Item is then placed for sale for my price + the % markup.
When the item is bought, the Merchant and I both get our respective cuts.
I can pull my items at any time, and the Merchant can Freeze the sales of my items at any time (but I can still take them off the vendor if this done).
*THIS* makes the Merchant a viable class.
If this were to happen, I'd drop *all* skillpoints I have in Merchant, and go find me someone to deal with.
Or:
This crappy item limit is dropped, or set to the point where it's still viable to sell stuff (minimum of 500 per Vendor at Novice. That would still be a pain in the butt, but it would be tolerable. 1000 per Vendor at Novice would be awkard but I could accept that).
This change does NOT make the Merchant viable. It makes everything below *master* pointless (from a pure sales perspective), as the limits are too low.
If anything, it makes the Merchant, as a Profession *less* viable, because it *reduces* the existing capabilities of the Merchant.
Barris
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:27 pm
#55
Hero_DarkJedi wrote:
Barris wrote:
I'm arguing its pointless to try to fix it so late in the game, considering what % of the population now relys on this? Not arguing, just making my case. I understand it's not your fault when it comes down to it about this whole 'fix.' I'm just bringing up this in hopes that the Dev's will realize the massive impact their surface level programming which they are going to fix will have.
lol, moot.
Barris ... your not in business are you? what kind of a job do you hold? have you ever gone to your boss with a problem? and the Boss agreed it was a problem? but said it's something that will have to get taken care of next quarter? or next year?
Lawyer, thank you.
It's never pointless to *fix* a problem. A peson should not be able to fill up a vendor with stuff after they dropped the skill to do so. You argue the tree only allows you to "drop" a vendor. But that is so "self-serving" as to be laughable.
It is pointless now after how long. Actually, it's just distructive.
It was not as intended ... it's was stated it was not as intended ... don't cloud the issue with the "combat medic" bologna ...
Like how CM was working as intended? Give me a break, they cannot make their minds up if their lives depended on it.
The dev's knew this was a problem ... and now they are fixing it ... as a matter of fact, if it wasn't for folks that think like you, the entire merchant community would probably not be the nerf bat quite so hard. So pat yourself on the back ... you caused some of what we are heading into now.
Actually, never was a problem until they went to fix it. The system was working, and EVERYONE was happy. It wasn't just the people like me who caused it, it was the lack of thought that the Devs put into the code along with their tight asses being too cheap to go buy new stuff.
Message Edited by Barris on 08-08-2004 10:28 PM
bluejanus
Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:31 pm
#56
Brilyn wrote:
< I'd venture that besides whatever other insidious purpose they have, they wanted to make merchant a more viable class.>
This change does NOT make the Merchant viable. It makes everything below *master* pointless (from a pure sales perspective), as the limits are too low.
If anything, it makes the Merchant, as a Profession *less* viable, because it *reduces* the existing capabilities of the Merchant.
I didn't say the change made the class viable. I said it was an attempt to make the class viable. The consignment thing is a good idea. It's been proposed before of course in these forums. The changes also eliminate the vendor abilities of non-merchants while nerfing the existing capaiblities of merchants, not a great outcome for merchants' current abilities, butyou'd have to have business 3/merchant skills to have vendors which I am guessing is the SOE intent to make the class viable.
JadedSlayer
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:12 pm
#57
I agree that empty vendors need to be deleted, that if u don't have the skills u can't keep the vendor. And I can kinda understand the reason for limiting the vendor amounts. I feel that 110 is way too low. I know a few merchants/crafters who have said if we are limited to 110 items bye-bye SWG and SOE and that is a shame. Limiting the vendors is fine but not to such a low number. From the posts I have read many people have said hey I can live w/ 400 - 1000 items per vendor. We need something that rewards people for being a master merchant.
Also DEVS before u implement a derastic change please let people know a lot sooner than 2 weeks. When u did the Jedi changes they knew for a month or more.After all we are ALLpayingcustomers w/ out us you would not even have ajob.Why don't you look at the vendors that are stocked see how manyitems they hold on an avaerage basis and then base your numbers on that.I bet u would find numbers closer to the 400 - 600 range.
Thank you for your time.
BlackEdge
Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:13 pm
#58
zukem wrote:
I just realized that there are two types of people that are opposed to this merchant change.
1) legitimate merchants that do not want to see low limits. These people have used the skill points in the merchant tree, and who are really not opposed to this nerf. But they are opposed to such low vendor maxes. If these vendor maxes were increased based on experience, so that higher level merchants can place more items than what the initial proposal was, they'd be happy. (i.e. master merchants get unlimited, merchant 4 gets 400 per)
2) Exploiters. These people are strongly opposed to any kind of change in merchant. These people are those that grinded through merchant, put up vendors, and now have no or minimal merchant skills. They have no skill points invested in merchant. With this new change, they will also eventually lose these vendors. And they will no longer be able to restock the vendor with wares. These people want private vendors at no cost to them.
So the question is which type are you. If you are type 1. Then please argue all you want about this upcoming fix, and what a possible solution might be. This fix is going to happen. It's just a question now of what the limits would be.
If you are type 2. Then really you have no business posting here.Merchant is a profession, and soon to be a very valuable profession. Just like how chef was for a good portion of the game, they are suddenly the profession to be.
I am type 2, and you can 1 star me all you want. This effects us just as much as anyone else in the game that are crafters. The problem with merchant is that their not really a FUN profession PERIOD. I don't know how one consider them a fun profession (maybe 5% of the total merchants consider it fun I guess). The profession itself is more like a job then anything else.
Another thing, the fact merchants are VERY limited on tools, restocking, the fact that the customers would have to rely on a merchant 100% to sell their products and responsible enough to sell them. 2 things can be done,
A) Merchants buy their supplies from a crafter, paying them cash the instant they recieve the crafters product, then putting it on their vendor for a higher price (problem with this route is that the merchant is taking a VERY high risk hoping to sell the products, even then they won't make a lot of money, unless they have a reallly high percentage cost, and with the item limits, it's really going to limit the amt of profits they make), or
B) The player has to put his full faith into the merchant, give them the items, and then hope they give you the profit from selling it while keeping a small %. This route isn't a big problem, but I could see some merchants actually exploiting this.
I'm sorry, but if people think merchant is a fun profession, they must be an accountant or something in that field....
The only way to make merchant fun is if they actually gave them some love, gave them proper tools, more customization, and so on... but right now they feel like a waste of skill points or best for if you have a 2nd acct to use them on and make them your alt...
Either way, if this go through, the market is in trouble.
If SOE actually fixed this problem when it first arised, then it wouldn't have been an issue. However with storage issue, the fact it can takes week just to get the skills for merchants, is why we're at this predicament. Master Merchants still get nice perks, lower maintenance, ability to remove and add vendors, customize their vendors, advertise, barking droids, wp, maintenance fees reduced... and so on...
VarnaxDespin
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:01 am
#59
SpacePunk wrote:
After reading Solitiri's post the thought came to me that SOE could be doing this so people have to buy MORE accounts. Maybe it's me, or maybe it's the evil laughter in the background.
I dont think this will create more accounts for them... I would go crazy if I was trying to manage 12-24+ vendors on multiple accounts in one location just to deal with the new limits.
Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 08-08-2004 12:01 PM
Bazalan
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:03 am
#60
They're not doing this for balance. They're doing it to limit database resources.
Ryche_Mykola
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:25 am
#61
Bazalan wrote:
They're not doing this for balance. They're doing it to limit database resources.
They should:
1.) Increase resource stacks to infinite from 100k
2.) Make all crates to 1000. Instead of having a whole different bunch of crate sizes.
3.) Get rid of garbage loots (who wants a broken calculator or binoculars, or **edit** are you going to do with 1 unit of copper as a loot?)
Shadwe
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:43 am
#62
I have merchant 0-0-0-4 for the 6 vendors but if this goes thru I will stop crafting sell off everything and drop merchant class. One of my vendors just has power-ups it alone exceeds my vendor limit under the new system. Between the power-up vendor and my 2 smuggler vendors I'd need 6 more vendors at least for the items I have.
Everyone wants empty vendors removed from world map. (note my vendors are not on world map and could care less about it)
If you do not have merchant skill of 0-0-0-4 you should not have 6 vendors < almost all (80-90%) agree with this.
What everyone does have a problem with is the MERCHANT NERF and it is a nerf big time. Not only will I not have enough space as a merchant so can not keep vendor stocked and the people in game that depends on PC vendors for everything they buy will no longer be able to find anything.
Merchant vendor should have at least 1000 item limit and master merchant should get a 50% increase for being master.
All professions that have a crafting skill should be given 1 vendor with a 750 item limitbut I fellall professions should geta vendor limited to 1 vendor per PC unless he is a merchant. This personal vendor will only be able to be placed in your home or in a merchants tent/mall.
Giving my crafted items to a merchant to sell for me and not knowing when or if I will see the money is not an option. (having someone stop playing or refusing to pay will happen and all trades are finalbecause SOE has a caveat emptor policy on trading)
If merchants could rent vendors to PC's so that items sold the money went to PC and the maintenance is paid to merchant would be better idea but do not see this happening.
Another option on vendors is to limit where they can be placed a new bldg called shopping mall only placable by master merchant and merchant tents (placable by novice merchant +1 tent per level inany skill).
If SOE is having problems with database because of the coming release of JTL then they need to rethink and improve their data base not PO their player base.
Brilyn
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:55 am
#63
< A) Master merchant - unlimited. Management 4 - 400, management 3 - 200, management 2 - 100, management 1 - 50, business 4 - 25
B) Master merchant - unlimited. Management skill boxes +50. All other merchant skill boxes +25. business 4 +25. >
Too low.
Tell me why I have to be a Master Merchant to maintain a "well-stocked" vendor?
If I need to be a Master Merchant to simply sell wares, then I *cannot* do anything bar be a crafter.
And that's crap.
Enix_Dayspring
Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:58 am
#64
zukem wrote:
Now to those merchants out there. Would you be more acceptable to this fix if one of these two things happen? I'm just pulling these numbers out of the air, and they have no validity. Just trying to see the common ground that the merchants can live with. These figures are per vendor, and not for all vendors.
A) Master merchant - unlimited. Management 4 - 400, management 3 - 200, management 2 - 100, management 1 - 50, business 4 - 25
B) Master merchant - unlimited. Management skill boxes +50. All other merchant skill boxes +25. business 4 +25.
I think anything unlimited is out of the question. The devs want to restrict people from storing lots of items on their vendors. If you make master necessary for unlimited item storage on vendors, youll just have people getting master merchant on their second account to do it and then you have the same problem.
zukem
Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:08 am
#65
Why would someone be 100% reliant on a merchant to sell their products. We have these things called trade forums. You have an auction channel in game. You have this thing called a bazaar. (limited as it may be.
Here is an idea.
How about this as a solution. The bazaar becomes unlimited in price. Everyone is still limited to 25 items. But if you want added "convenience". You can be a merchant and be able to have a vendor to sell your items. And that is the biggestadvantage about the merchant class. The convenience of not having to go running around and trying to sell your wares, and having someone do it for you.