Merchant Archive
Thread: Give me a single good reason why non-merchants SHOULD be able to use a vendor?
Wire3k wrote:
CowboyBothan wrote:
Why can't people understand that being able to make something does not equate to being able to run a business, or being a salesperson?
And why can't folks that seem to want to be accountants not understand that for crafters that really enjoy what they do - the CRAFTING part is the smallest part of it - seeing it into the hands of the enduser that APPRECIATES their contribution to the world is the real payoff.
Fred75 wrote:
Ok, why SHOULD you be able to place and use a vendor that you dont have the skill to do so with? Dont worry, I'm prolly not going to reply to each and every reason, I just like to get a good laugh.
1)lets see, i dont have to stand outside the starport spouting useless dribble about how uber my 1k a crate powerups are. Coronets already flooded with crap as it is, and sadly more people are learning how not to go afk while macroing their garbageso the spams harderto filter out again.
2) with a 25 item and 6k cap limit the bazaar is worthless except for small quanties of low quantity items. its so flooded with worthless overpriced junk its already useless for 90% of items. ie looted cdef pistols for 3k and 10-100 lot units of resources at 60cpu and higher with no stats over 100
3) i can pick up any combat weapon and use it, i dont NEED master pistol to shoot a geo blaster or master sword for a scyth or tkm for vibro knucks. i dont have to HAVE the skills to use them, they just dont work as well. i dont HAVE to have master merchant to have my 3 little vendors run, i just cant chage the bark, dress them funny, pick a specific race for them or get cost discounts. whats the difference tween the two
i dont want to seem too cynical about merchant and vendors or imply that everyone does this, that or the next obnoxous thing such as spewing spam afk all day
i totally agree with pulling empty vendors off the map andthink there should evensome minimum like 25 items on it so fools dont just stick a unit of hide on it for 999999999 cu to keep it on the map. the problem with this nerf is i see NOTHING at all gained for the merchant sp now except more vendors on the high end that few people will ever really use/ thatversus ALOT of hassles and inconvience created now for the community when they can no longer easily find items they need isnt worth it to the game imho. also NOTHING stops me from still macroing up biz to nov, planting and stocking vendors and dropping it all in 60 minutes or less. Id love a good laugh too Fred but adding more inflation so merchants can get their cut for resellingcrafters itemsto bria's already screwed economy isnt funny to me anymore
ResourceMonkey wrote:
The sad thing about this post is that when someone says "Give me ONE good reason," I come up with a few (as have others) and suddenly I am now changing my opinion about Merchants being the only ones with the abilities to use Vendors.
Good job!
Ok, but neither you nor anyone else has posted any good reasons, so I don't see the point of this post.
Lets call Apples Apples, you want something for free, fine I can understand that. I'd like my alt (A Master TKM) to be able to make Vibroknuckles (she has a good working knowledge of them) and be able to make the powerups for them. Also I'd like to have her slice them. and I think it would be peachy keen if she could use stimpacks in combat (she knows her body better then any stupid doctors). heck she should be able to make her own food too, I mean really how hard is it to whip up some brandy, all you need is a recipe and some time.
The dev's designed this game around the concept of interdepence and community development, if your not interested in that, that is fine go play a different game.
BoberFett wrote:
Wire3k wrote:
CowboyBothan wrote:
Why can't people understand that being able to make something does not equate to being able to run a business, or being a salesperson?
And why can't folks that seem to want to be accountants not understand that for crafters that really enjoy what they do - the CRAFTING part is the smallest part of it - seeing it into the hands of the enduser that APPRECIATES their contribution to the world is the real payoff.
Your product will end up in more hands if you use a distribution network rather than trying to run it entirely yourself.
So, what benefit do I get if 90% of the server is walking around in Eva originals? That's right - NONE. However, I constantly got comments on how nicely my stock was appointed, stocked and in my choice of style, colors and outfit combinations - not to mention all the player education I've done on how NOT to waste biomods.
The number of crafters that wish to just spew product like a 3rd country sweatshop is pretty proportional to those merchants that actually want to play accountant - ya'll should get together and leave the rest of the 90% of the population be.
CowboyBothan wrote:
ResourceMonkey wrote:
The sad thing about this post is that when someone says "Give me ONE good reason," I come up with a few (as have others) and suddenly I am now changing my opinion about Merchants being the only ones with the abilities to use Vendors.
Good job!
Ok, but neither you nor anyone else has posted any good reasons, so I don't see the point of this post.
Lets call Apples Apples, you want something for free, fine I can understand that. I'd like my alt (A Master TKM) to be able to make Vibroknuckles (she has a good working knowledge of them) and be able to make the powerups for them. Also I'd like to have her slice them. and I think it would be peachy keen if she could use stimpacks in combat (she knows her body better then any stupid doctors). heck she should be able to make her own food too, I mean really how hard is it to whip up some brandy, all you need is a recipe and some time.
The dev's designed this game around the concept of interdepence and community development, if your not interested in that, that is fine go play a different game.
But let's look at your last sentence "interdependence and community development". Okey, I can grab ahold of that. Tell me though, do you really see it fostering interdepencence by having an architect who can craft huge houses but are unable to sell them on the 'open market'?If anything, I see a community being developed in a stronger bond if an artisan was able to sell his wares wherever and whenever he could for whatever fair price. The restriction/requirement to spend skillpoints to be able to use a vendor does not foster community development. Rather, it requires a person to place his points in another area in order to use a vendor, and thereby not get the other skills he normally would like to have.
The only way this could foster community would be for the individual artisan to find a merchant and have him sell his wares. But, as it has been pointed out in numerous other posts, the scope of corrdinatingthe making your items, finding a place to store them until you can delvier them tot he vendor, have the vendor keep things up and working, trust them not to 'rip you off', keep your stock on the vendor and not have it go away due to poor managment, etc. is staggering.
And, for the record, I am a proponent FOR making vendors for merchants only. It was just the fact that you asked for a 'good reason' and have been given several that you dismiss with just the "Oh you want it for free" retort. I believe that your question has been answered rationally, calmly and intellectually. You just don't want to hear it.
You are using "Real Life" saying "craftsman do not equate to businessmen" and although I do agree, I can still sell anything I buy. Hell, put out an and in the flea market paper - sort of the way the Bazaar works - but unlike the Bazaar, I can charge ANYTHING I want - not limit it to 6K. However, RL comparisons have no place in an MMO until you show me IRL a Rodian carrying a Lightsaber.
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 08-23-2004 04:38 PM
Message Edited by ResourceMonkey on 08-23-2004 04:41 PM
CowboyBothan wrote:
Lets call Apples Apples, you want something for free, fine I can understand that.
And merchants dont? What DOES a merchant contribute as a profession seriously BUT dropping and stocking vendors. Serious answer please, what EXACTLY do merchants contribute beyond dropping a vendor, Ive got the master merchant badge and made alot of credits getting it along the way,I also managed to finish master in 3 weeks never and i do mean NEVER spamming or other garbage for xp like paying people to pay access fees and refresh vendors and all the othertactics ive seen holo grinders use to get it done and over with. I didnt care about or miss anything to do with merchant dropping it because there was nothing to really miss for all the time to get it.
i DONT care what the dev's intended for it either, merchants just one of many things theyscrewed the pooch on. can we say holo grinding, pvp, the gcw, holocrons themselves, afk spawn and loot campers, useless town militia, and general lack of new meaningful contentect ect. The simple fact remain that the ONLY thing merchant contributes is vendors.
The discount effienciency mean NOTHING when i can have 20-30k a day worth of resources at grind prices from each harv for 90 cu/75 powerand ive had 50 down before at one time before, same for vendor cost and ad costs, whats 50% off 50 cu an hour matter if your making 200-400k resource sales all day long. Planetary advertising gave you a name location and lump class for the world map but unless you already named your vendors like1k a crate power-ups and 2cpu resources what advertising are you getting, its not like aclick boxpopped up saying view advertisement that you could add to like a real ad you could change to run daily specials with. if ANY advertising worked teh starport s wouldnt be flooded with spammers and ya woulda never needed barker droids. As for hiring i wont even get into how useless i saw it as when i could random up a vendor withing 5 tries i was generally happy with seeing.
i swear im really not looking for a flame war so i and going to TRY and make some constructive suggestions for what merchant should have really been. you guys wanna distribute fine, lets see a REAL bulk distribution system, Give a merchant a warehouse driod or something we can DIRECTLY transfer goods to, no more having to make 3-4 trips to a vendor to offer a 100 crate run of powerups, especially going to off world vendors, let a merchant have a screen to automatically call up all his property so you dont have to go out everyday to tend each harv and factory you own. do it all from one drop down menu at once. lets make private vendors searchable planetwide as an option to teh bazaar screen for advertising3, give ad4 a click to see specials addon you can use when someone clicks your vendor waypoint on the world map, even if its just 35 characters ya can fit 96%swoops 20kStimC 1200 a crateof some otehr quick daily special into that and have real advertising. how much of an ad is joebobs armor on the world map as things stand now. prolly teh easiest perk would be make merchant tents a freebie for you guys to plant provided you kept one merchant stocked in it at all times, otherwise the tent now is just a glorified one lot round sm naboo house.
you guys have went on and on for months about how fair it is we got to keep our vendors after we dropped them now ill ask you by what right does a mere 71 sp for master merchant give you guys the right to to have final say on the vast majority of retail pricing in the economy. when resources back last year RARELY sold over 10 cpu and 20 cpu at the most and now every dam in coronet passing through someone else is spamming things for 60-80 or even 100 cpu for AVERAGE stats does the econmy really NEED another level of inflation your markups will add.
its a real shame the vast majority here seemed to be so short sighted as to scream for the holy grail nerf bat to slam all us mom and pop sized vendor operators when what you should have begged the devs for was more content abilities and incentives to actullykeep the merchant skills and make merchant more then just a gloried vendor stocker.
TxRoadDawg wrote:
And merchants dont? What DOES a merchant contribute as a profession seriously BUT dropping and stocking vendors. Serious answer please, what EXACTLY do merchants contribute beyond dropping a vendor, Ive got the master merchant badge and made alot of credits getting it along the way,I also managed to finish master in 3 weeks never and i do mean NEVER spamming or other garbage for xp like paying people to pay access fees and refresh vendors and all the othertactics ive seen holo grinders use to get it done and over with. I didnt care about or miss anything to do with merchant dropping it because there was nothing to really miss for all the time to get it.
i DONT care what the dev's intended for it either, merchants just one of many things theyscrewed the pooch on. can we say holo grinding, pvp, the gcw, holocrons themselves, afk spawn and loot campers, useless town militia, and general lack of new meaningful contentect ect. The simple fact remain that the ONLY thing merchant contributes is vendors.
If you don't care what the devs intended, why are you playing? They're the masters of the game, they're going to do what they want for the most part.
And as I said, the only thing that any profession provides is pretty much one thing. Let's get rid of all professions!
i swear im really not looking for a flame war so i and going to TRY and make some constructive suggestions for what merchant should have really been. you guys wanna distribute fine, lets see a REAL bulk distribution system, Give a merchant a warehouse driod or something we can DIRECTLY transfer goods to, no more having to make 3-4 trips to a vendor to offer a 100 crate run of powerups, especially going to off world vendors, let a merchant have a screen to automatically call up all his property so you dont have to go out everyday to tend each harv and factory you own. do it all from one drop down menu at once. lets make private vendors searchable planetwide as an option to teh bazaar screen for advertising3, give ad4 a click to see specials addon you can use when someone clicks your vendor waypoint on the world map, even if its just 35 characters ya can fit 96%swoops 20kStimC 1200 a crateof some otehr quick daily special into that and have real advertising. how much of an ad is joebobs armor on the world map as things stand now. prolly teh easiest perk would be make merchant tents a freebie for you guys to plant provided you kept one merchant stocked in it at all times, otherwise the tent now is just a glorified one lot round sm naboo house.
Great, that's what everybody wants. But why do you feel the need to eliminate the profession until those things happen? Merchant is weak, so let's make it weaker? What kind of logic is that?
you guys have went on and on for months about how fair it is we got to keep our vendors after we dropped them now ill ask you by what right does a mere 71 sp for master merchant give you guys the right to to have final say on the vast majority of retail pricing in the economy. when resources back last year RARELY sold over 10 cpu and 20 cpu at the most and now every dam in coronet passing through someone else is spamming things for 60-80 or even 100 cpu for AVERAGE stats does the econmy really NEED another level of inflation your markups will add.
The same right that those skill points let WS decide the quality and price of weapons. The same right that AS have over the quality and price of armor. The same right... Do you get the picture?
its a real shame the vast majority here seemed to be so short sighted as to scream for the holy grail nerf bat to slam all us mom and pop sized vendor operators when what you should have begged the devs for was more content abilities and incentives to actullykeep the merchant skills and make merchant more then just a gloried vendor stocker.
BoberFett wrote:
What exactly does a TKM do besides punch things? What does a Rifleman do besides shoot things? They don't contribute anything besides those single skills. Let's just drop them and let everybody punch and shoot as well as everyone else.
They PRODUCE something - either thru money or loot - why else would they hunt? Shall we give the devs the bright idea that the function of looting be a seperate elite class? It's not big a leap after all - harversting already is a seperate skill, but at least that not something that affects everyone for need, and that class has other side benefits and leads somewhere.
BoberFett wrote:
What exactly does a TKM do besides punch things? What does a Rifleman do besides shoot things? They don't contribute anything besides those single skills. Let's just drop them and let everybody punch and shoot as well as everyone else.
thats right, thingS is the operative. i can run 100 or more destroy missions, pvp, farm NS for loot ect. i really DOUBT id be a master 2hand/pistol if a cdef and curved sword was the only weapon choices that profession had. your what weapon smith? you only stock wood staffs and stone knives or do you know how to make scatters dx-2's fwg5's ect
If you don't care what the devs intended, why are you playing? They're the masters of the game, they're going to do what they want for the most part.
And as I said, the only thing that any profession provides is pretty much one thing. Let's get rid of all professions!
why do i still play, because the people that i hang out with in sweet water on dant still manage to outweigh all the devs shortcomings with fixing what really needs to be worked on in this game, as for the second line refer to the paragraph above
Great, that's what everybody wants. But why do you feel the need to eliminate the profession until those things happen? Merchant is weak, so let's make it weaker? What kind of logic is that?
so howsus keepingour vendors gonna kill merchant? hows it weaken merchant at all??? most of all how is nerfing my vendor going to STRENGTHEN merchant??? the ONLY change this does is nerfs alot of storage space people had meaning more houses just for storage on the map. what wont change is the fact that biz 1-4 and nov merch is a joke to grind fill a vendor and dump the skills.
The same right that those skill points let WS decide the quality and price of weapons. The same right that AS have over the quality and price of armor. The same right... Do you get the picture?
Sounds like you have a real high opinion of how much clicking sell item is supposed to be worth.Or is ityour really trying to say its not fair you have to actually compete for sales against any WSthats not a merchant also
What gives you the right to think anybody here is short sighted? Who died and made you god? You've got your opinion, which is no more or less valid that anybody elses opinion. Yet somehow, you and your overinflated ego seem to think that everybody else is "short sighted".
No, you're just greedy.
lets see maybe becuase the constant theme ive read since i was grinding merchant was always nerf the non merchant vendors instead of how to IMPROVE merchant into a viable profession that would be more then a vendor dropper barely improved over biz 3. Ive also been ingame since retail release so ive seen ALOT of changes come through. you rememebr when merchant was set access to 1 sec 1 cpu access fee, used to make master in an hour or so back then as i recall. that was a good nerf for merchant to what it is now, BUT nerf xyz everytimesomething isnt perfect should be the LAST choice option, not the devs magic wand cure all.
BTW your right im greedy, ilove these bloated prices on bria now,really lovegoing to any cave and seeing the mag seal containers, dead body's, debris piles, etc spawn camped by 3rd party afk macro looters stocking up all the skill tapes for their vendors or going to moenia and seeing every npc spawn camped by afk macro looters loading up on the new junk loot drops. And lets not forget the groups that constantly go to the vette for teh SOLE purpose of staying non aggroed hunting av21 power plants with NO intention of doing anything else on it.
As for me i mademine mostly off 1.75 cpu fusion 2 cpu inorganics and 1k a crate powerups,ended up with 8 houses, 4 factories, 70 ber 13 harvs, a collection of90 or so vast dragonslayer pre nerf FWG5's 50 mil that i have no clue what else to buy with it actually worth getting. id rather sell 2 million units at 2 cpu then screw someone for 40cpu a 100k brick when all i do is drop a harv and empty it at spawns end. guess im greedy alright
