Merchant Archive
Thread: Anti-Trust: Why in-game Monopolies are pure fiction.
DirthNader
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:49 am
#53
Gavvot wrote:
Bah, it's the law of evolution : adapt or die. works in MMORPG quite well too.
I still don't get why it's that hard to restock a vendor more often.
It's just puting item for sale and setting a number once per item, it doesn't take hours.
Have you actually ever stocked a vendor? If so, what were you stocking.
Last night I stocked a full run of sliced comp armor (about 500 pieces). I have a pretty simple pricing scheme for sliced comp, but it still took me half an hour (and I'm a damn fast stocker). Before I really got stocking down, it would take me three times as long.
No one is argueing that crafting isn't fun, or that the dealmaking of a real merchant isn't fun. What they're saying is that with the horrid interface of the current vendors, restocking is not fun, and having to do it more often is essentially not having fun more often.
Wire3k
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:45 am
#54
Gavvot wrote:
Bah, it's the law of evolution : adapt or die. works in MMORPG quite well too.
I still don't get why it's that hard to restock a vendor more often.
It's just puting item for sale and setting a number once per item, it doesn't take hours.
Actually stocking a vendor isn't that difficult. Making (or acquiring the right stock) and figuring out WHAT needs stocking takes awhile.
The biggest irritation is getting a tell in the middle of nowhere from a customer that wants you to drop what you are doing RIGHT NOW - and run back 3 planets to make them X. If X is on the vendor - problem solved. If X is not on the vendor you either have a major interruption in your schedule or an unhappy customer. By having sufficient and varied stock - I rarely ever had to drop what I was doing that second to try to make a customer happy. Of all the crafters I've met - that one aspect alone has driven more of them out of crafting than any other, this is not a good thing. No one wants to - or reasonably can be expected to be chained in their shops 24/7.
As dedicated a crafter and shopkeeper as I was, even I had other business to attend to in places other than my shop. I can only imagine folks that also like a little adventuring or hunting thrown into their schedules.
No, sorry - this is a killer. Kill the distribution methods - you kill craftsmen, kill craftsmen, you kill the game.
Bermag
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:50 am
#55
jefdenbeffer wrote:
So just shut up about 'u have to specialise,... blablabla' coz LK-Tech has been specialised for a very, very long time now.
Uhh was that directed to me or the other guy? LOL I know all about the pain having to maintain well stocked vendors. Specialized vendors (10 or more) is one way we can lower the impact of this nerf. It will certainly lead to more sales than before. But I prefer removing the limits since this would only make the game more boring. Stocking vendor today is bad enough.
I am really looking forward to flame, ehh sorry read what TH will say about the vendor limits.
jefdenbeffer
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:52 am
#56
I already forgot who i directed it to, guess i'll also just stop posting about this before i get a heartattack
Bermag wrote:
jefdenbeffer wrote:
So just shut up about 'u have to specialise,... blablabla' coz LK-Tech has been specialised for a very, very long time now.
Uhh was that directed to me or the other guy? LOL I know all about the pain having to maintain well stocked vendors. Specialized vendors (10 or more) is one way we can lower the impact of this nerf. It will certainly lead to more sales than before. But I prefer removing the limits since this would only make the game more boring. Stocking vendor today is bad enough.
I am really looking forward to flame, ehh sorry read what TH will say about the vendor limits.
Bermag
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:02 am
#57
I like this quote from Holocrons friday feature about SWG economy:
"For example, it's easy to see that just like in the real world economy, the chacteristic "Pareto Law" distribution of cash holds true: most of the money is in the hands of a few. This is a graph of just the top 2000 or so folks on Bria, for example - the highest folks are billionaires.
This isn't necessarily something to be discouraged by - rather, we take it as a sign that the game economy is replicating characteristics of the real world economy. Since one of our goals was to have a game economy that can provide ongoing interesting strategy gameplay, seeing real world patterns manifest is something we were looking forward to. "
So follow Holos advice and let the game replicate real word economy.
Gavvot
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:11 am
#58
The biggest irritation is getting a tell in the middle of nowhere from a customer that wants you to drop what you are doing RIGHT NOW - and run back 3 planets to make them X. If X is on the vendor - problem solved. If X is not on the vendor you either have a major interruption in your schedule or an unhappy customer. By having sufficient and varied stock - I rarely ever had to drop what I was doing that second to try to make a customer happy. Of all the crafters I've met - that one aspect alone has driven more of them out of crafting than any other, this is not a good thing. No one wants to - or reasonably can be expected to be chained in their shops 24/7.
My usual answer to people when what they want is not on my vendor and I'm busy : send me a mail with what you, I'll do it asap.
When I go back to my shop, I do the order and send them a tell.
The usual answer is : wow, you're fast. Even if the order is done a couple hours after they made it.
Have you actually ever stocked a vendor? If so, what were you stocking.
Last night I stocked a full run of sliced comp armor (about 500 pieces). I have a pretty simple pricing scheme for sliced comp, but it still took me half an hour (and I'm a damn fast stocker). Before I really got stocking down, it would take me three times as long.
No one is argueing that crafting isn't fun, or that the dealmaking of a real merchant isn't fun. What they're saying is that with the horrid interface of the current vendors, restocking is not fun, and having to do it more often is essentially not having fun more often.
Yes, I do stock my vendor. Droid and accessories.
But I never stock 500 items at once, for alot of different reason.
I just make sure that I have about 10 medical droid, 2 or 3 of each crafting droid, enough battery crates, enough BH droids, enough custom kit.
But my vendor almost never have more than 100 items on it, mainly because I don't like the next button.
Some days I have to do a big restock, and it take a little more time because I have alot of different items to restock.
But most of the time, it take me a couple minutes max.
Going to the factory behind the shop, pick up items, go back in shop, put item for sale, end of story.
I have to agree that the current vendor interface is bad, not only for stocking.
I know they already did some modificatons to it on TC, and I hope they'll do more.
For the specialization comment from Jef, I think it was directed to me.
And I don't take offense from it.
I can deal with bugs and that devs are not able to finish making stuff like combat revamp. But I can't stand stupid ideas like they want to "limit monopolies" by having limits on stacks, storage and vendors. I can (almost) even accept that they must have limits because of technical issues. But not becuase they want to control how we gamers want to play and instead play they way THEY thinjk is the correct way.
Control how players play the game is their job.
My usual answer to people when what they want is not on my vendor and I'm busy : send me a mail with what you, I'll do it asap.
When I go back to my shop, I do the order and send them a tell.
The usual answer is : wow, you're fast. Even if the order is done a couple hours after they made it.
Have you actually ever stocked a vendor? If so, what were you stocking.
Last night I stocked a full run of sliced comp armor (about 500 pieces). I have a pretty simple pricing scheme for sliced comp, but it still took me half an hour (and I'm a damn fast stocker). Before I really got stocking down, it would take me three times as long.
No one is argueing that crafting isn't fun, or that the dealmaking of a real merchant isn't fun. What they're saying is that with the horrid interface of the current vendors, restocking is not fun, and having to do it more often is essentially not having fun more often.
Yes, I do stock my vendor. Droid and accessories.
But I never stock 500 items at once, for alot of different reason.
I just make sure that I have about 10 medical droid, 2 or 3 of each crafting droid, enough battery crates, enough BH droids, enough custom kit.
But my vendor almost never have more than 100 items on it, mainly because I don't like the next button.
Some days I have to do a big restock, and it take a little more time because I have alot of different items to restock.
But most of the time, it take me a couple minutes max.
Going to the factory behind the shop, pick up items, go back in shop, put item for sale, end of story.
I have to agree that the current vendor interface is bad, not only for stocking.
I know they already did some modificatons to it on TC, and I hope they'll do more.
For the specialization comment from Jef, I think it was directed to me.
And I don't take offense from it.
I can deal with bugs and that devs are not able to finish making stuff like combat revamp. But I can't stand stupid ideas like they want to "limit monopolies" by having limits on stacks, storage and vendors. I can (almost) even accept that they must have limits because of technical issues. But not becuase they want to control how we gamers want to play and instead play they way THEY thinjk is the correct way.
Control how players play the game is their job.
Xeranx
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:13 am
#59
Bermag wrote:
I like this quote from Holocrons friday feature about SWG economy:
"For example, it's easy to see that just like in the real world economy, the chacteristic "Pareto Law" distribution of cash holds true: most of the money is in the hands of a few. This is a graph of just the top 2000 or so folks on Bria, for example - the highest folks are billionaires.
This isn't necessarily something to be discouraged by - rather, we take it as a sign that the game economy is replicating characteristics of the real world economy. Since one of our goals was to have a game economy that can provide ongoing interesting strategy gameplay, seeing real world patterns manifest is something we were looking forward to. "
So follow Holos advice and let the game replicate real word economy.
Then limits have to be put in because not everyone in the real world is a millionaire or a billionaire for that matter. The top 2000 are billionaires? That just clearly points out how destroyed the economy is. There's no following of the real world there.
Blimigerite
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:22 am
#60
Excellent sum-up.
I have yet to read why a vendor item cap is a good thing...
Ryche_Mykola
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:22 am
#61
I can't wait til these Non-crafting types start sending tells to crafters to make them an item because they can't find like a Ubese Jacket or a DL44, etc anywhere. LOL. Also, when docs start charging even more for buffs these non-crafters will be the first to post complaints.
Personally, this change wouldn't hurt me acquiring goods. I formed very good relationships with Tailors, Weaponsmiths, and Master Artisans to where there is nothing I won't be able to get. Who WILL be affected is the casual player that has to go shopping for there items.
The people that say "ohhhhhhhhhhh, you'll have to specialize in something, someone will fill in the gaps." This isn't a utopian society. People like to find there 1 big mega mall that carries everything.
Having a monopoly in this game is impossible. There is no one Crafter that is setting the prices for the whole server or keeping other crafters from entering the business. Anyone notice the price of triple layered composite? It keeps getting lower and lower. How is that monopolistic?
Ryche_Mykola
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:26 am
#62
I'd like to add:
When you have that one weaponsmith, and there the only person that makes that type of weapon. Or that 1 armorsmith and there the only one who stocks it...........................................Wouldn't that be considered a Monopoly? This change would be creating monopolies.
Wire3k
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:30 am
#63
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
Personally, this change wouldn't hurt me acquiring goods. I formed very good relationships with Tailors, Weaponsmiths, and Master Artisans to where there is nothing I won't be able to get. Who WILL be affected is the casual player that has to go shopping for there items.
Get back to us after this hits - let us know if those contacts still maintain a shop - or indeed stay in the game.
Those that will be left - (especially the more casual crafter) will burn out VERY quickly.
Gavvot
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:31 am
#64
Funny how everybody pick armor as an exemple in this thread, as it is the most fubar part of the economy right now.
To pick the RL exemple, everybody IRL need food.
Best food with biggest profit, let assume it's caviar.
However, weirdly you can find tons of food that is not caviar and at affordable price.
Now pick the game.
Everybody, or close to everybody need armor.
However, it is already almost impossible to find something else than heavy exepensive compo.
And having a custom order from an AS is like requesting an audiance to the pope.
500K is comon price for an armor suit on my server.
It represent hours ingame to make that money, unless you're an AS.
Weirdly, IRL, 80% of my money do go to food.
IG, most of my money goes to armor.
And also take me hours to find affordable, low ham cost good protection armor.
So much for the economy is fine right now...
To pick the RL exemple, everybody IRL need food.
Best food with biggest profit, let assume it's caviar.
However, weirdly you can find tons of food that is not caviar and at affordable price.
Now pick the game.
Everybody, or close to everybody need armor.
However, it is already almost impossible to find something else than heavy exepensive compo.
And having a custom order from an AS is like requesting an audiance to the pope.
500K is comon price for an armor suit on my server.
It represent hours ingame to make that money, unless you're an AS.
Weirdly, IRL, 80% of my money do go to food.
IG, most of my money goes to armor.
And also take me hours to find affordable, low ham cost good protection armor.
So much for the economy is fine right now...
jefdenbeffer
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:34 am
#65
Gavvot wrote:
The biggest irritation is getting a tell in the middle of nowhere from a customer that wants you to drop what you are doing RIGHT NOW - and run back 3 planets to make them X. If X is on the vendor - problem solved. If X is not on the vendor you either have a major interruption in your schedule or an unhappy customer. By having sufficient and varied stock - I rarely ever had to drop what I was doing that second to try to make a customer happy. Of all the crafters I've met - that one aspect alone has driven more of them out of crafting than any other, this is not a good thing. No one wants to - or reasonably can be expected to be chained in their shops 24/7.
My usual answer to people when what they want is not on my vendor and I'm busy : send me a mail with what you, I'll do it asap.
When I go back to my shop, I do the order and send them a tell.
The usual answer is : wow, you're fast. Even if the order is done a couple hours after they made it.
Have you actually ever stocked a vendor? If so, what were you stocking.
Last night I stocked a full run of sliced comp armor (about 500 pieces). I have a pretty simple pricing scheme for sliced comp, but it still took me half an hour (and I'm a damn fast stocker). Before I really got stocking down, it would take me three times as long.
No one is argueing that crafting isn't fun, or that the dealmaking of a real merchant isn't fun. What they're saying is that with the horrid interface of the current vendors, restocking is not fun, and having to do it more often is essentially not having fun more often.
Yes, I do stock my vendor. Droid and accessories.
But I never stock 500 items at once, for alot of different reason.
I just make sure that I have about 10 medical droid, 2 or 3 of each crafting droid, enough battery crates, enough BH droids, enough custom kit.
But my vendor almost never have more than 100 items on it, mainly because I don't like the next button.
Some days I have to do a big restock, and it take a little more time because I have alot of different items to restock.
But most of the time, it take me a couple minutes max.
Going to the factory behind the shop, pick up items, go back in shop, put item for sale, end of story.
I have to agree that the current vendor interface is bad, not only for stocking.
I know they already did some modificatons to it on TC, and I hope they'll do more.
For the specialization comment from Jef, I think it was directed to me.
And I don't take offense from it.
I can deal with bugs and that devs are not able to finish making stuff like combat revamp. But I can't stand stupid ideas like they want to "limit monopolies" by having limits on stacks, storage and vendors. I can (almost) even accept that they must have limits because of technical issues. But not becuase they want to control how we gamers want to play and instead play they way THEY thinjk is the correct way.
Control how players play the game is their job.
hm
...
ah well i forgot my promise about not posting anything anymore